105 replies to this topic

[Jarl Dane]

[Deathlike]

#chairsfortheJarl

The best part is I know some people will write off CW/FW statements from PGI.

Good to see someone finally compiling the background history behind the 60 to 90 day wait that was CW.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 November 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Zolaz]

Mech The Dane, on 28 November 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

Someone go get Bloodwolf ... Id like to hear him spin all the facts presented in this video.

[Bud Crue]

This is an excellent summary. With specific date and contextual citations, Dane has essentially given a point by point breakdown of how PGI has mislead its customers and community regarding CW and its development.

Lets not dwell on the past though.

Hey here is a totally productive idea:
Fix this situation PGI. Make it right. Make CW what it should be. Make it competitive and immersive and fun. Just like you advertised. Make the effort, engage the community, and even if you fail, it will be better for the game, the community, and most certainly the reputation of your company.

I sincerely hope that such an effort gets at least a mention at mechcon.

[Kael Posavatz]

Great vid.

One error.

There were two maps at initial launch of CW.


There I was...I came into this game in late May 2013, and this is the first time I've heard how far back PGI's 'announcing' of CW goes. Wow.

Okay, so what's happened to CW since?

There were six months of almost manic effort to improve CW. The number of maps tripled. Generators were moved, and then placed in bunkers. There were terrain adjustments to Vault and Rift. Drop Zones were established to deter spawn-camping. In June '15 Vitric Forge went in and then...almost nothing for nine months until Phase III hit. Another 5 months (July 2016) to announce the Round Table, 3-4 weeks before it happens, 6 weeks before Russ discusses the Plan on an NGNG podcast, followed by 'mechcon'.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 28 November 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Spot on Dane.

Pity you probs gon' git banned... How dare you highlight the absolute failure that it CW, FW, FP.

It should've just been abbreviated like this: BP

Broken Promises
Bad Play
Bad PGI

Either way Phase 3 was a total flop for the most part, totally misguided and out of touch with what people wanted. Just revert back to Phase 2, polish it up a bit (add in some MC for tags, a couple new maps and fix existing ones) and let the people play again.

That's the only solution IMO. It's too late for this stupid bucket solution. That band-aid needed to be applied 6 months ago, but it's bled out now.

I could go on... But I'll probably get banned too.

Zolaz, on 28 November 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Someone go get Bloodwolf ... Id like to hear him spin all the facts presented in this video.

Surely, I mean surely, that is not going to happen...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 28 November 2016 - 06:23 PM.

[Alteran]

Two big thumbs up!

Holding PGI accountable for their own words, inaction and failure to deliver is what the community should be doing.

Dane, you nailed it.

1400 days and counting... holy cripes...

[dervishx5]

When there's trouble you poke BW.

[Zolaz]

[BLOOD WOLF]

Zolaz, on 28 November 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Someone go get Bloodwolf ... Id like to hear him spin all the facts presented in this video.

what is wrong with you?

like him, I am not a bittervet, nor white knight nor any unfounded label some reason backwards troll on the internet gives me. I just present the facts and argue on the basis of reality. You want to go by a narrative and people either got to fight in the black or white bucket.

I don't like what everything PGI does either, But I will consider the facts. The only difference between me and the Dane is one of us had the displeasure of interacting with you.

wasn't going to comment on this thread, but I hear my name and they get a response.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 28 November 2016 - 08:26 PM.

[dervishx5]

[exiledangel]

I bet if they made CW like promised they would have sold more mech packs

[BLOOD WOLF]

ohh well, Great vid Dane, I made an overview of FW, myself. Although I still am not of the mind that everything they wanted to put in or wanted too was a good idea.

dervishx5, on 28 November 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

When there's trouble you poke BW.

yea, just be sure too poke the blood wolf that actually wants to have a conversation, and not zolaz's or anybody's strawman bloodwolf

[dervishx5]

BLOOD WOLF, on 28 November 2016 - 08:43 PM, said:

yea, just be sure too poke the blood wolf that actually wants to have a conversation, and not zolaz's or anybody's strawman bloodwolf

A strawman, of course, that was formed out of the blue without your assistance?

[Zolaz]

Nice pivot Bloodwolf. When are you going to get around to answering the question?

[BLOOD WOLF]

dervishx5, on 28 November 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

A strawman, of course, that was formed out of the blue without your assistance?

yea, nowhere Have I ever stated, or by evidence of any series of post that I spin facts when its in accordance to PGI. I got bones with EA, creative studios, DICE, what name you, PGI doesn't get off either. Despite what some think. Thankfully, DICE is set to add ground to space in battlefront, so my pre-ordered game is going to see some action soon, its just been sitting for a year or so.

Zolaz, on 28 November 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Nice pivot Bloodwolf. When are you going to get around to answering the question?

what was the question? you just made a statement, I see deathlike gave a like, when the fact remains you did made a statement that you would like me to spin the facts. To your dismay, I already made an overview of FW, albeit different from Danes in which he focused more on the road to FW, I focused on the implementation and comparison from the one we have now.

but I digress, what is your question?

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 28 November 2016 - 09:04 PM.

[Harper Steel]

I for one would really Like PGI\Russ to give the community an answer on this forums and not his usual trumptweets..

But I know PGI/Russ does not have the courage or stones to actually reply..

[BLOOD WOLF]

Harper Steel, on 28 November 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

I for one would really Like PGI\Russ to give the community an answer on this forums and not his usual trumptweets..

But I know PGI/Russ does not have the courage or stones to actually reply..

doesn't that make the thought redundant?

How about we spam his twitter with #all things dev, go on the forums

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 28 November 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[Wintersdark]

exiledangel, on 28 November 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

I bet if they made CW like promised they would have sold more mech packs

probably, hell certainly. But I'd argue that their failure to make CW as it was originally envisioned is not because they lied, or because they set out to mislead.

Rather, I just think it was beyond their capabilities and/or resources. It's very doubtful they chose to make the hot mess we have, they just got here despite the best intentions. After all, it's in their best interest to make a fun and engaging CW, so obviously that was the goal.


I'd say, though, use of the word "promised" in these discussions is prone to problems. Designs shared for a creative work that has not yet been made are by their nature subject to change, and PGI certainly didn't use the word "promise" in any of their descriptions.

PGI is not innocent, but it does no good to act like a hurt child either. They're a business, nothing more or less. They set out to make CW, and they failed pretty spectacularly. They may fix it - I hope they can salvage something good - but I doubt it. Still, there were no promises. This is simply how game design - indeed, any creative work - is. You've got an idea of what you want, but the devil is in the details, in the execution. What you get is never what you wanted initially. Sometimes it's better, usually it's worse. In some cases (such as here) much worse.

Again, no absolution here, just reality.

PGI didn't set out to fail, they just failed. *Shrugs*. No malice.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Did bryan not say "we will start small and get it right"? He Should have followed his own advice.

What about the question I was supposedly asked?

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 28 November 2016 - 09:24 PM.