57 replies to this topic

[Benjamin357]

Spawn Gate Standing:
Most often seen on Manifold, stand at your spawn gate and pretend that you can snipe the oncoming hoards.

Basement Hiding:
Also most often seen on Manifold, several mechs out of the fight most of the round.

Standaround Party:
Usually starts with someone calling out "no nascar", and the team failing to check the callers credentials, stands stock still at spawn, with the low ground and no cover on Caustic. Frequently seen on the upper deck of Crimson. Spires side on Tourmaline is another popular location for this, get rekd from all sides.

Going Wrong Cap:
Bonus points for Kappin' Kodiaks, mostly seen facing deathball at Epsi on Canyon, or lights on Epsi in Tourmaline.

Capping on Small Map Assault:
Mostly seen on Canyon, or Mining, you give your enemy a small target that they all focus fire on, almost always results in a loss.

[Lyoto Machida]

How about NASCAR itself?

[RestosIII]

Lyoto Machida, on 01 December 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

How about NASCAR itself?

INB4 people try to defend NASCAR.

[Tristan Winter]

Alright, let's get serious. I could quote Sun Tzu, Musashi Miyamoto or Bruce Lee and tell you what they say about being unpredictable. But I'm going to quote a much more valuable source of insight instead.

"If you are strong feign weakness. If weak, pretend strength. Whatever your position, conceal it from the enemy, and he will waste his armies fighting his own phantoms."
- Tactica Imperium

But yeah, the idea is to be unpredictable. We've all seen matches that are won in unconventional manners. We've seen people win by camping basement and eating the potatoes that wander inside, we've seen people win by pushing through the caldera on Caustic, we've seen people win by camping in the crowded buildings behind the Citadel or on the far side of the mountain on Crimson Strait, letting the enemy team freely push over the river or over the saddle and then get demolished by an emerging firing line. Doesn't work every time, which is why it's not a conventional tactic. But you can win fights (and wars) by doing stuff that is unconventional. precisely because it's unconventional.

And more importantly, it's fun to break the norm and do something different sometimes. Especially since we have all played the same maps literally thousands of times since 2012.

However... I will admit that capping any other base than Theta with assault mechs is just dumb on most maps. And base rushes on Canyon Network make me want to slap people in the face with a cold trout.

[Goober Gabber v2]

RestosIII, on 01 December 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

INB4 people try to defend NASCAR.

NASCAR is not bad!
It really helps me realize what kind of loser I am for following it.

[Benjamin357]

NASCAR is like politics: Don't like Obama? Clearly Trump is the solution!

A team that moves together is optimal, standaround party is clearly the worst, and NASCAR is significantly better than a standaround party, but worse than a team that moves together.

[Tristan Winter]

Lyoto Machida, on 01 December 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

How about NASCAR itself?

The other day, I read about a famous battle when Alexander the Great invaded Persia. It may have been the battle of Gaugamela, maybe it was the battle of Issus, I'm not sure. At any rate, Alexander set up his cavalry on the right flank, the Persians set up their cavalry on their right flank (Alexander's left flank). Alexander charged with his cavalry, inflicting massive losses. The Persians did the same, and Alexander's left flank took massive casualties. Instead of regouping, both armies continued the rotation with their cavalry, but Alexander was more successful with his attack and managed to push through towards the enemy commander (Darius? I forget) and the enemy army had to retreat.

Nascar, basically. This was not one army holding the center and attacking one of the sides with cavalry in a sort of pincer movement, which is traditionally referred to as flanking. Both sides were sacrificing their slow units and trying to inflict as much damage as possible with their fast units before the enemy teams could regroup.

Maybe some history buffs can correct me here, but I don't think the concept of Nascar is an MWO-specific phenomenon.

[dervishx5]

Oh I thought this thread was going to be about Hilary.



We're gettin' close.

[DAYLEET]

Nascar works if they other team nascar too and have slower mech that cant follow. Nascar fails when a team anti nascar as a group and quicly blunt the nose of the attacker.

The only problem is people who try to follow the lights, then you dont get nascar you get a CONGA line. This, is frustrating to watch unfold as you know the result of that.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

• Base guarding. One or two mechs standing on a base are never a match for the 4+ that are coming to smash them
  
• Splitting up like teenagers in a 1980's horror movie where the serial killer picks them off 1 by 1
  
• Formulating brainiac strategies without querying what builds the team has, 12 LRM boats in HPG basement is totally fab
  
• Ignoring the bright, shining, UAV flying overhead to lure the enemy into a false sense of security
  
• Pushing in single file, rather than shoulder to shoulder
  
• Seeing enemies dump alphas into teammates without taking advantage of the interval between weapon recharge time
  
• Running away and retreating when enemy mechs are very close to overheating
  
• Blaming generic things like the LRM assault that did 1,200 dmg due to an inability to figure out what went wrong
  
• Being unable to shoot at something without running straight towards it
  
• Running straight towards an enemy and blocking your teammates from having clear shots
  
• Standing in a trench the entire game and never having a high enough elevation to return fire or do anything really useful

[Kubernetes]

Tristan Winter, on 01 December 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

The other day, I read about a famous battle when Alexander the Great invaded Persia. It may have been the battle of Gaugamela, maybe it was the battle of Issus, I'm not sure. At any rate, Alexander set up his cavalry on the right flank, the Persians set up their cavalry on their right flank (Alexander's left flank). Alexander charged with his cavalry, inflicting massive losses. The Persians did the same, and Alexander's left flank took massive casualties. Instead of regouping, both armies continued the rotation with their cavalry, but Alexander was more successful with his attack and managed to push through towards the enemy commander (Darius? I forget) and the enemy army had to retreat.

Nascar, basically. This was not one army holding the center and attacking one of the sides with cavalry in a sort of pincer movement, which is traditionally referred to as flanking. Both sides were sacrificing their slow units and trying to inflict as much damage as possible with their fast units before the enemy teams could regroup.

Maybe some history buffs can correct me here, but I don't think the concept of Nascar is an MWO-specific phenomenon.

Correct, and I've noted it before. A counter-clockwise nascar movement is not unique to MWO. It's at least 2500 years old. Greek phalanxes lined up with the best troops on the right flank. Lots of battles became turning movements as the right flanks of both armies would try to overlap their enemy's left (also because they held their spears with the right hand--it would feel unnatural to shift left while trying to make spear thrusts).

[Dee Eight]

I had a game 20 mins ago, QP Grim Assault. I took it as a bad sign when the eight mechs without unit tags also were all basic camo green. The ones with most of the kills were the four of us with unit tags and custom paint. Started out pretty normal...move to the cap from the drop....then wow...they didn't nascar....they went to base defence camper mode. Ok fine... that's different....except...they all largely hid in the low space so no target locks/spotting at all. Fortunately the other team was equally inept and went with the same tactic. I however being in Archangel, kinda need to see where to put the LRMs and that means putting crosshairs on something at the very least. So i shift right slight... and look their charlie lance is attempting to get something going on that side too....and what it got going was shooting at me from 1000 meters without locks, largely trying to hide between a pillar and a elevated water tank.

Alas for them, 1200m radar and 1100m LRM5s... and 10 tons of ammo. Solo KMDD'd the DWF-UV with LRMs (who largely fired his UAC's into my cover...he netter 37 total damage by his death) as well as an HGN-IIC-C (who put up 18 damage). Split the rest of the LRM missiles between a NTG, an AWS, an Onion IIC, a hunchie 4P and 4G, another DWF-W(S), and a MAD. Ran my LRM bins dry and then suckered the NTG to make a push for me after I took all the armor off one of his shoulders by making it seem I was empty. Since my Lurming happened out of their radar ranges, he didn't know I had an SRM20 battery waiting which he died to. We're now 3 kills to 0. Meanwhile my team is STILL camping. The enemy is starting to work up some nerve though so I get on VOIP and text chat for them to get off their lazy asses and get into the game. So far they'd largely limited themselves to exchange of pokey fire and trying to rain LRMs on things I was getting my own locks for (and vulture the kills). I shifted my locks around a lot to discourage them from just stealing the prize for my effort.

After the NTG died I solo pushed around, observed missile fire from something clan, and realized when a UAV went up that seven of the enemy got brave and pushed together to the other side of the building blocks my team was cowering behind. Anyway when I flanked to try and get behind their lurmer, I looked up and saw I was right beside and 150 meters below that other DWF...so I just hold still, center the crosshairs and bang...20 SRMs got his attention. He turns left towards me, another 20 srms. He tilts downwards.... sees me but doesn't know to unlock his arms I guess because he doesn't fire. He instead charges downhill at me. Next volley and his pieces are falling thru my mech. I then move to get the Onion, who's decided to get brave now and try and join his team. My team finally is getting off their arse and getting their own kills, and as I chased the onion I didn't lock him as I hoped to close the game and get him myself.

I didn't, but what I got at the end was 4 killing blows, 5 assists, 2 solos, 4 KMDDs, 940 damage (more than double the next closest on the team), 593 match score (second on match was a 520 / 893 dmg on the other team),14 spot assist, 7 components, 3 scouting and 2 flanking (that's another thing I hate...when the fire support player is the one getting the scouting and flanking bonuses... you're playing wrong). I bagged 365 tons of enemy mechs with my poor little ARC-5W in Wolf's Dragoons livery. The enemy got 5 kills. One of the other assaults on their team got to 69 damage (AWS-5T). I know that Awesome and the Gyr and the Highlander had LRMs since they showed on my info. They never got to use any of them it seemed as again, their team was stagnant and didn't get locks (and they didn't push their position to get their own locks, or bothered to bring better sensors).

So occassionally... stupid team tactics work to your personal advantage. I'm sure that's how the death star accomplishment will happen for someone.

Edited by Dee Eight, 01 December 2016 - 11:19 PM.

[LordNothing]

the basement is a great place to spring a trap in hpg manifold. its often used as an escape route by mechs wounded in the inevitable king of the hill match. one or two mechs down there with a few srm racks is all you need to be effective. the problem is that sometimes the enemy see the trap coming, for example you are moving around and showing up on seismic, or you are seen poking out the door or give yourself away with ecm jamming. too many mechs can ruin it and it does require people outside fighting. its always worth checking out for the first couple minutes of the match, but at some point you got to write off the strategy and go join your team, because at that point it is unlikely to go your way.

its effective if both you and your team know what you are doing, especially if you have a light mech to help lure people to their deaths.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 December 2016 - 10:39 PM.

[Benjamin357]

I have had a couple of rounds on manifold where after our team was way down many mechs, it was successfully used as a last stand. I got the ace of spades in a last stand back in the glory days of the Wubverine. Going to the basement at the outset generally just means your team is down that number of mechs.

[LordNothing]

Tristan Winter, on 01 December 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

Alright, let's get serious. I could quote Sun Tzu, Musashi Miyamoto or Bruce Lee and tell you what they say about being unpredictable. But I'm going to quote a much more valuable source of insight instead.

"If you are strong feign weakness. If weak, pretend strength. Whatever your position, conceal it from the enemy, and he will waste his armies fighting his own phantoms."
- Tactica Imperium

But yeah, the idea is to be unpredictable. We've all seen matches that are won in unconventional manners. We've seen people win by camping basement and eating the potatoes that wander inside, we've seen people win by pushing through the caldera on Caustic, we've seen people win by camping in the crowded buildings behind the Citadel or on the far side of the mountain on Crimson Strait, letting the enemy team freely push over the river or over the saddle and then get demolished by an emerging firing line. Doesn't work every time, which is why it's not a conventional tactic. But you can win fights (and wars) by doing stuff that is unconventional. precisely because it's unconventional.

And more importantly, it's fun to break the norm and do something different sometimes. Especially since we have all played the same maps literally thousands of times since 2012.

However... I will admit that capping any other base than Theta with assault mechs is just dumb on most maps. And base rushes on Canyon Network make me want to slap people in the face with a cold trout.

have to agree here. on more than one occasion i wracked up 2 or 3 kills with not a scrap of armor left on my mech, simply by coming at them aggressively and catch them off guard (especially before they have the chance to glance over at your paper doll). they stop shooting and desperately look for a way out when if they had fired once or twice id have been dead. the battle is won or lost in your own head and that of your enemy. everything else is just chaos unfolding.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 December 2016 - 10:47 PM.

[Dee Eight]

I find if basement campiing in a splat mech with ECM, to switch to counter and sit in a corner not moving my feet (torso twists don't set off seismic). You'll ruin the ECM of an enemy outside, and if you have seismic and get a bunch on the corner, lay in artillery in the basement next to you. It strikes outside and whammo...count red crosshair flashes... If they or you are moving too...you can get flanking and hit & run bonuses also.

[Valhallan]

Competence on the battlefield is a myth. The side which screws up next to last wins, it's as simple as that.

- Lord General Zyvan

[Snazzy Dragon]

Standing around passively is bad. Standing around actively if you know you have a bunch of 800m range mechs with gauss/ppc/er large laser builds is fine so long as you are set up in such a way that when you are pushed on they have to come through some sort of choke point.

Basement is only an option on skirmish if, say, you know 7 out of the 12 enemy mechs are packing LRMs for some reason. I've seen it happen and mitigating 7 mechs' purpose is a big deal.

Epsilon and Kappa are terrible points to go for on Canyon Network. It is very easy to be pinned down in a crossfire if the enemy pushes towards theta, sees you took either of the outside caps, and sets up that deadly crossfire you can't do much about.

On the topic of NASCAR:
There is a very big difference between NASCARing and the Big Engine Stomp Meta. One is a bunch of PUGs filing in one by one and getting killed while the long range and assault mechs get left behind to be picked off. The other involves a lot of fast brawling mechs following fast assaults and tankier heavies into the "rear" (it can be the side where they are weakest, like roflstomping through their mediums and heavies first, or picking off the skirmishers taking up the second line) of the enemy from a covered approach; as soon as the heavies and assaults are crit the brawlers and skirmishers take point, swapping positions to split armor damage across the team.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 01 December 2016 - 10:58 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

"Let them come to us"

...

I know the match is lost.

[Snazzy Dragon]

ugrakarma, on 01 December 2016 - 11:00 PM, said:

"Let them come to us"

...

I know the match is lost.

L hook ambush where the enemy has to go through a choke point.

Anti-NASCAR is really fun, but I wouldn't try it outside of group queue.