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Roughneck Pre Order Is Here


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#121 ice trey

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:15 AM

View PostCathy, on 04 December 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

I see that picture and think what have those smackheads done to my Victor thank god I have zero interest in the jihad era and afterwards

You're missing out. I was in the same boat for a bit, but after getting the two-for-one Dawn of the Jihad / Turning Points 3070 combo, I was sold on it - if only it was the first time in ever that the lore stopped being "The adventures of DAVION and whoever they're killing or shagging this time", instead spreading fluff evenly out among all the other factions. I got to read AS MUCH LORE for the Free Worlds League as the FedSuns, and that is FANTASTIC. Also, there was suddenly lore for the Outworlds Alliance, Marian Hegemony, Taurian Condordat... The only gripe I have is that they never made novels - and I think that's where most of the animosity stems. After Forever '67, everything was e-pub short stories that nobody really wanted, but it seems the issue is more a legal one after FASA burnt every bridge on the way out. The dark age seems to be really well received by most, under Catalysts' hands, that is. The Clickytech stuff was a trainwreck.

The "Victor" you see there is the Lu Wei Bing, an up-tonnaged take on the Victor after House Liao lost their Victor factories to Davion. Acts more like the old AC20 Victors than the Davion/Kurita Gauss versions.

Edited by ice trey, 04 December 2016 - 02:17 AM.


#122 Aramuside

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:17 AM

View Postice trey, on 03 December 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

Even as a 15 year old, microsofts' audacity at overwriting things made me LIVID, especially when there were hundreds of mechs to choose from, and plenty of designs that would have fit far better in a Fedcom Civil War setting.

At least the era that they set the game in was actively being written. It was the newest lore, so adding things to the setting meant that it could just be a new design. When TRO 3067 came out, it was fine. More than the new mechs, it was the Hardpoints system they used that irritated me, especially since it often meant that canon configurations of 'mechs couldn't be used anymore.

PGI are using an old, established point in the lore. There are no changes to be made, but they've made them. This is what irritates me so much. Yet again, so many options for things to be added, and instead, they say "Naw, we'll just make our own".

We stopped buying mechpacks not because we don't like the mechs, but because we want something better to play those mechs in.


You use a lot of angry rage filled words in there (the image of you raging as a 15 year old was particularly amusing) and a lot of opinion presented as facts. Well "irritated" can I just point out that their mechpack sales figures seem to contradict your claim that "we" stopped buying them. Still a lack of facts or accuracy never hindered a post on this forum and it was quite well written. ;)

#123 Krucilatoz

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:22 AM

The first thing come in my mind :

WAIT, THIS MECH HAS MELEE WEAPON?? LIKA A SPACE-MARINE CHAINSWORD??

looking closely,.. no, its a claw :( :(

with new update on mech collision, i think PGI should make melee combat viable.
Of course, only mech with "arm" (actuator) can use melee attack (no melee for Jagermech,rifleman,blackjack)
maybe special melee attack for KingCrab

i can only hope..

#124 Koniving

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:26 AM

Coming back and being completely fair, the Sarna entry made today is very well written and actually seems to have cared to use lore and fluff in a way that PGI has never really done before, making me wonder if this was Catalyst-aided/written or if writing for it was given to someone whom genuinely cared about what he or she was doing.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Roughneck

This said, my only complaint is that there was an oversight in Battletech variant naming conventions:
Numerical entries in non-Star League 'Mech variants did not denote different variants, but different generations. For example, the Shadowhawk 1s were introduced in 2467 and was the 'first generation of Shadow Hawks'. Shadow Hawk 2s are 2nd generation made in the 2752, and the Shadowhawk 5s are 5th generation which only started to be produced post Helm Memory Core in the 3033+ years such as the 5M in 3048. Gaps exist for custom made filler, naturally as they always do in Battletech games.

The outlier is the SHK 3K being made in 3070+, however this is because it is a next gen upgrade made directly to a Shadowhawk 2K. This is significant, because there is a nearly 2 meter difference in height between the SHK 2's and the much heavier armored and more spacious SHK 5's which are bigger for the sake of being able to stuff large components in them i.e. XL engines, double heatsinks, etc. In the case of the 3K, a complete overhaul of the mech while keeping the same skeleton and engine, drops heatsinks and changing to 'heavy ferro' armor allowed it to manage to carry doubles heatsinks and more armor than the old 2nd gen, but otherwise the 2 generation wasn't really capable of hauling them due to their very compact size compared to the 5th generation.

The Shadowhawk 2D2 is an upgrade to the Shadowhawk 2D(avion) chassis in 3049. While the Shadow Hawk 5D is an whole new generation overhaul of the original design D(avion) in 3062.

In other words, while upgrades to a variant that didn't change armor and structure types weren't complex enough to warrant a new generation number for non-Star League mechs, massive changes to the overall design (which you wouldn't see in something that was just produced using an industrial mech chassis) would warrant new generation names to show that incredible innovation. (Kintaros were official Star League mechs from the get-go and their variants are non-faction-specific).

The letters in non-Star League mechs denote the factions that favor or have officially adopted the design. So in the case above, the SHK-K is Kurita, D is Davion, H is Star League but originally denoted 'Hegemony' as in Terran Hegemony before the Star League became what it had. M is Marik and as is typical with Marik designs it sports all the best stuff since they didn't lose it like most, mainly due to staying out of battles of attrition.
---
The Roughneck entry already has '3' generations of the mech...
The 1A, 2A and 3A... interesting, but I think these could have been 1A, 1A2, and 1A3.

The only Roughneck that meets the conditions for a second gen is actually the hero. There are other times when special conditions exist, but uh, there's no mention of major defects or flaws which had to be fixed or experimental versions that were scrapped.

Just a lore-connoisseur's nitpick.

This said I do like the look of the mech.

Edited by Koniving, 04 December 2016 - 07:29 AM.


#125 ice trey

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:33 AM

@Kon

Personally, I think the mech looks great. It apes the Shadowhawk and looks blatantly made to abuse hill-humping, but it looks pretty cool.

What irks me is rather than putting out a Javelin, Clint, Whitworth, Crusader, Vindicator, or Charger, A star-league design, or even newer toys like the Wolf Trap, Hatamoto Chi, or something from TRO 3055, we got this.

Edited by ice trey, 04 December 2016 - 02:39 AM.


#126 Koniving

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:37 AM

View PostSidefire, on 03 December 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

I for one don't understand all the hatred over the mech itself. Yes it looks like someone took a Shadow Hawk, slapped 15 tons of ugly onto it, and called it a Battlemech but hey. It looks cool and in order for this franchise to survive, new lifeblood has to be squeezed into it and if that means new mechs, it means new mechs. I wish it was an Axman, but I'll take it. What I don't like is the description of the pilot. Not only, as many pointed out, is her whole "Ugh, mechwarriors are sooooo sexist" schtick a bunch of ********, she's also a bonafide psychopath. A man-hating psychopath is not the best way to advertise your new homebrew to a bunch of nerds who are more stagnant than the actual innersphere

Guess I know where all the sexism commentaries are coming from. (By this I mean I haven't read the 'lore' page made for this mech yet.)

This said, I don't think the hate is genuinely for the mech itself... It's for a combination of things. Yet another Heavy in a Heavy dominated game (where the hell are the 30+ 20 ton mechs that exist in BT? Over 30 different 20 ton mechs... and we have one. ONE per faction).

Then there's also the stagnated faction play with no real innovations and few if any of the original ideas for the system. It is on its third generation with no major updates planned (Russ's own statement) and it's... empty and void of reason or meaning. PGI's greatest fix was to allow it to give you MC, which only encourage HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE merc groups to get together and pile on one team to maximize their income, screwing everyone else.

Where is "THIS" Community/Faction Warfare?

Despite the 'Year', there's no new tech that should already exist. Dozens of missile ammo types. Dozens of AC ammo types. Over 20 weapons missing from the game.

Almost literally the only blood this game is getting at all is a new mech each month.
I believe this is where the hate comes from.
(Also most bipedal industrial mechs for loading equipment are much lighter as heavier things are relegated to quad mech loaders and loading vehicles of up to 150 tons... but... the conversion to Battlemech and subsequent change of materials from Industrial grade to Military grade could have given the skeleton the strength to lug 65 tons..)

Edited by Koniving, 04 December 2016 - 02:42 AM.


#127 ice trey

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:38 AM

View PostAramuside, on 04 December 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

mechpack sales figures

Tourist troll game stronk

...but since when does Mechwarrior "Can't publish our player count" online put up sales figures for the mech packs, and why else would they justify making their own mechs when there are literally hundreds of canon ones to choose from?

#128 Jack Shayu Walker

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:39 AM

View PostSereglach, on 03 December 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

It's April, right?!? RIGHT?!? This has got to be a F'n joke. Wait . . . nevermind . . . it's PGI, so I know it's not.

There are so many things they could have done to truly stand out and do "something that's never been done before" and then they decide they're just going to make an utterly TERRIBLE home-brew chassis that looks like it should have been one of the FUGLY WizKids "MechWarrior: Dark Age" industrial mechs. Remember how badly that game crashed and burned, PGI? Well, you're right on track to share gaming graveyard space with them.

If it wasn't going to be Melee or Quads then you should have said so. Even if the answer was still, "Hey we'd love/hate to but engineering just isn't available for these things."

If it wasn't going to be one of the numerous Iconic mechs that people have been waiting for then you should have said so. You know two IS 65 ton mechs I would have LOVED to see over the crap you're giving us . . . a Crusader or Axman.

Any communication would have been better then to build up the hype and then announce this utter crap.

You spent the last 6 months hyping up Mech Con by answering everyone with "Wait until Mech Con" on nearly every topic and every question. We're just under 4.5 hours until the presentations start (when most people will actually care to bring up twitch) and you're already destroying most players little bit of hopes and desires that they were able to build up. However, sadly, I think you're probably meeting most people's expectations with this abysmal display.


lol. are your hopes fixed yet?

inb4 yes.

#129 Koniving

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:50 AM

Side note: Quirks request.
Do NOT quirk the torso structure or armor, instead focus those numbers on the arms and DO NOT SHRINK THE ARMs...

This mech could have a very different playstyle that I would absolutely love to use in which the arms could be used as shields without having to torso twist by using Arm Aiming... And this hasn't really been doable in a long time, so I'd really, really, rrrrrrreally appreciate keeping the long-as-heck arms with some good structure/armor buffs to the ARMS. Yeah.

Honestly this could be so much fun.
Even more if PGI heavily tonned down the FLD (front loaded damage) on most weapons (keep for missiles, Gauss and PPCs). Damage classes on weapons are meant for 5-to-10 second intervals, now to be done 3 to 18 times in 10 seconds or less. Wouldn't need silly things like energy draw.

#130 BlackW1nd

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:52 AM

This mech looks fantastic =) even though it doesn't feels like "classic" Battletech (and classic Battletech without reworking was mostly crap actually) it feels very modern and realistic. Good job =)

#131 Black Rabbit of Inle

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 03:23 AM

"Despite a brilliant legacy of female MechWarriors—the Black Widow…duh!—too many men still seemed to think the domain belonged to them."

Bwahahahahaha

*Rolls around on floor*

Hahaha haha

*Ahem*

Seriously? Have any of you read anything in the law???

Rulers, houses, clans, only the Dracs may be a touch outdated but even then DEST and the DCMS have women in all roles. The Btech universe is probably amongst the most progressive out there... I literally cannot think of a single example in the books where having ovaries is even mentioned let alone derided...

Sad thing is I don't even think this is SJW (God I hate that term) just PGI not having a clue :)

#132 Dee Eight

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 03:33 AM

View PostKoniving, on 04 December 2016 - 02:50 AM, said:

Side note: Quirks request.
Do NOT quirk the torso structure or armor, instead focus those numbers on the arms and DO NOT SHRINK THE ARMs...


This mech won't ship until AFTER the new skill tree happens and ALL mechs lose ALL their quirks.

#133 Der Baron

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 03:43 AM

This looks very good. I'm seriously tempted.

#134 K19

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 04:40 AM

WTF ?????
MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries - Pre Alpha Gameplay Demo (Mech_Con 2016) Unerealy engein..... PGI dont like Cryteck hard work

#135 Jaqir

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 04:43 AM

I like it. The arms are a bit nonsense, but overall I dig the rugged look of it. High ballistics points and missiles, option for some energy support... Looks to be both fun to play with and potentially very effective. Won't brawl very well probably, but brawling is for brutes anyway.

Not in the original lore? Eh, whatever.

#136 Midgie

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 04:45 AM

When I first saw the thumbnail, I thought it was a clan Stooping Hawk. I will be one of those naysayers by repeating that there are still several IS mechs that I'd still like to see (i.e. Longbow, Valkyrie...) before PGI adds non-canon mechs. However, I love the look of it. Great job as always, Alex.

Edited by Midgie, 04 December 2016 - 04:45 AM.


#137 Thomasso

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 04:45 AM

View PostMachinae Mortis, on 03 December 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Nothing really to say about this one. Nostalgia makes me buy mechs. There's no nostalgia here. Nothing really bad about it; just not for me.


Ah.. Yes, nostalgia. I must admit I buy mechs on the same manner. The now one - I don't remember it, I don't know it, don't feel anything except it looks just nice.

T.

#138 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 05:42 AM

not sure yet how I feel about this one, it looks realy bulky so should be pretty short for a 65 ton huminoid Mech.

hardpoints do not seem great
not especialy fast
if those "shields" around the cockpit are side torso it will likely be really tanky with a standard engine but as only 1 variant has enough E hardpoints for decent lightweight weapons I am not sure it would be effective without an XL, if those "shields" are CT then it will probably be about the worst Mech for shielding with sides ever designed.

it kind of looks like an overweight clone of the Shadowhawk mixed with parts inspired by a gorilla.

I think this one is one I will conceder when it comes out for cbills, although I could probably be convinced otherwise

#139 Ouze

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 05:49 AM

I certainly don't begrudge PGI adding their own mech to the game, much as nearly every previous game did. It's also a very neat looking mech - I love the art.

That being said I wouldn't buy one. Heavy mechs are a pretty crowded space already and this one really doesn't seem like it does anything special.

#140 Valtica

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 06:15 AM

They should include a variant with at least 1 ballistic hardpoint on each side torso. It would look cooler that way (Guncannon FTW)





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