70 replies to this topic

[BattleBunny]

After many quirk iterations PGI is throwing all that work away in favor of a new skill tree which will combine quirks and modules with an XP system which will be mech specific.

Why would they throw away all the work done on quirks in favor of a new system this late in the game's development? Surely they realize taking away "3 mechs to master" and refunding the modules to players will make people wealthy and open up mechbays.

The only reason I can think of why they would do all this:

They invented a new way to make money. Respeccing the skill tree is probably going to cost MC.

I really hope I am wrong.

Edited by BattleBunny, 06 December 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I don't think you are.

[DGTLDaemon]

Having to pay MC for respeccing isn't a problem per se, as long as you understand how your build functions and what role it is supposed to play. It can, however, become a problem in combination with PGI's unpredictable rebalancing habits, because instead of just rebuilding our mechs with each so-called "balance pass", we'll also have to respec them...

[Bulletsponge0]

BattleBunny, on 06 December 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

After many quirk iterations PGI is throwing all that work away in favor of a new skill tree which will combine quirks and modules with an XP system which will be mech specific.

Why would they throw away all the work done on quirks in favor of a new system this late in the game's development? Surely they realize taking away "3 mechs to master" and refunding the modules to players will make people wealthy and open up mechbays.

The only reason I can think of why they would do all this:

They invented a new way to make money. Respeccing the skill tree is probably going to cost MC.

I really hope I am wrong.

I'm both excited and sad for this.. Excited at the huge cbill windfall thats coming my way... sad once I realize just how many cbills I've spent on modules lol

[Bandilly]

I fully expect it to cost some amount of MC. If we're expected to respec often then it might just be a cbill sink, but fewer respecs for MC seems more likely. Hopefully it won't cost too much.

[Tahribator]

In my eyes these things are happening with this change:

• They're increasing grind.
  
• They're increasing monetization (XP to GXP more valuable, MC to respec).
  
• They're throwing away 2 years' worth of quirk balancing and starting anew with a new system. Results to be seen.
  
• More min-maxing opportunities for the meta stuff.
  
• They're making customization harder by increasing costs. Making people to "bet safe" by going for FOTM builds. Less incentive for experimentation.
  
• Clicking through skill three every time you respec will be tedious. You decided to try SRMs on your lurm Catapult? Too bad, pay us for the respec and you have to click through 5 trees again.
  
• They're making "bad" variants even less attractive.

I don't see a single positive that's worth mentioning. Yet, people are defending it. Saying "it'll feel like a proper F2P", they play the same 'Mechs anyway, they're always on premium so they earn good XP per match and they don't Mechlab much. What the hell am I missing here? There should be an outrage.

It's almost like they decided to monetize MWO even more in order to cover the costs of MW5.

[AphexTwin11]

Finally getting rid of all those quirks that people just use as crutches and fodder to QQ about. lol IS git gud 10/10 would respec skill tree again

Edited by AphexTwin11, 06 December 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[TLBFestus]

The inital choices will be free.

But it's got to be assumed that if you decide you want to change anything and respec a mechs skill tree, they are going to make you pay MC for that pleasure.

Edited by TLBFestus, 06 December 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[N a p e s]

This is the biggest question concerning the new skill tree for me.

Respecing builds is gonna be a big thing, practically in the same vein as changing a build but I full expect this to cost MC. A cheap standard (never changing) fee is fine if we're talking about 20-100 MC. With the amount of MC they give away you should be able to reapec on occasion for what is essentially free. If the cost increases as more skills are accumulated and involved in a respect or if the price is too high it becomes a pain.

Testing builds and playing around in the mechlab is a big part of the game and this adds a layer to that. If it gets stuck behind a paywall it discourages experimentation which is definitely not a good thing.

[DGTLDaemon]

TLBFestus, on 06 December 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

But it's got to be assumed that if you decide you want to change anything...

Are you sure it's gonna be you who will be deciding whether to change anything or not?

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 06 December 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[Tahribator]

TLBFestus, on 06 December 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

The inital choices will be free.

But it's got to be assumed that if you decide you want to change anything and respec a mechs skill tree, they are going to make you may MC for that pleasure.

Customization is one of the main pillars of this game. It's not a "pleasure".

[Burke IV]

What if each mech has the same points no matter how many copys of that mech you own, similar to the unlock system we have now. That way you could have the same mech respecced 5 different ways all at the same time.

Edited by Burke IV, 06 December 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

AphexTwin11, on 06 December 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Finally getting rid of all those quirks that people just use as crutches and fodder to QQ about. lol IS git gud 10/10 would respec skill tree again

Right because quirkless IS mechs are perfectly balanced with Clan mechs.

[Navid A1]

MC for re-spec is bad and anyone behind the idea and the supporters should feel terrible.


Seriously... Limitless customization is one of the main aspects of this game.
Its beyond horrendous if you have to pay MC the moment you want to change your build without being handicapped.
Its the definition of go meta or go home!

One of the main things I liked in MWO was that spending money was not a must (except for mechbays)... even if you wanted to become the most competitive player.

[Gas Guzzler]

Navid A1, on 06 December 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

MC for re-spec is bad and anyone behind the idea and the supporters should feel terrible.


Seriously... Limitless customization is one of the main aspects of this game.
Its beyond horrendous if you have to pay MC the moment you want to change your build without being handicapped.
Its the definition of go meta or go home!

One of the main things I liked in MWO was that spending money was not a must (except for mechbays)... even if you wanted to become the most competitive player.

Everyone saying "MC" are paranoid bitter players. PGI hasn't said that, and as surprising as it may sound, I'm confident they understand that would be dumpster and aren't gonna go there. I think what is likely is that you will just have to spend the C-bills that it cost to re-spec skills.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 December 2016 - 12:12 PM.

[BattleBunny]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 December 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Everyone saying "MC" are paranoid bitter players. PGI hasn't said that, and as surprising as it may sound, I'm confident they understand that would be dumpster and aren't gonna go there. I think what is likely is that you will just have to spend the C-bills that it cost to re-spec skills.

I am not paranoid nor bitter. Ignoring that insult, I hope you are right about the rest of your statements dude.

Edited by BattleBunny, 06 December 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[El Bandito]

If PGI charges me MC for respeccing, then I will be very surprised at the fact they can fall even lower in my eyes.

[Barantor]

Tahribator, on 06 December 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

In my eyes these things are happening with this change:

• They're increasing grind.
  
• They're increasing monetization (XP to GXP more valuable, MC to respec).
  
• They're throwing away 2 years' worth of quirk balancing and starting anew with a new system. Results to be seen.
  
• More min-maxing opportunities for the meta stuff.
  
• They're making customization harder by increasing costs. Making people to "bet safe" by going for FOTM builds. Less incentive for experimentation.
  
• Clicking through skill three every time you respec will be tedious. You decided to try SRMs on your lurm Catapult? Too bad, pay us for the respec and you have to click through 5 trees again.
  
• They're making "bad" variants even less attractive.

Grind is subjective. Some folks find the longest of work to result worthy of doing (look at wurm online or eve) others want it so easy it might as well not exist (current skill system in MWO imo).

We do not know if we will be having to pay MC for any respecs, not enough information yet. It could be any number of things that happen, we could even end up with a certain amount of free respecs even if they do put in MC costs.

They might be wrapping the quirks into the skill tree, we don't know for sure or not. There is also speculation about certain mechs getting more SP.

Experimentation might go in a different way. Some folks might try builds on mechs that weren't in line with the previous quirks, then use skills to quirk them how they want. Unknown how this will work out.

Meta will always change around and will always try to min-max. Tell me a time it has not?

The speed in the video in which they clicked didn't seem that slow to me. Again speculation about payment to respec at all.

"Bad" variants could get bonuses, we have no idea at the moment.



In conclusion, too many folks jumping to conclusions when we all need more information. I hope that we either get this on the test server soon or that PGI puts out some more info on their plans at least.

[AphexTwin11]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 December 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Right because quirkless IS mechs are perfectly balanced with Clan mechs.

But muh quriks! but muh balance, my balaaaaance!! How will I ever be able to shoot a KDK-3 now without them!

Edited by AphexTwin11, 06 December 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[Jetfire]

My assumption is they make so much money from mech packs they aren't concerned with a Cbill flood.