283 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Seems like a reasonable update that shows PGI isn't going to absolutely ruin everything, so cool; I guess I'll hold off on the doom & gloom a bit.

Why can't Russ and/or Paul bother to post this on their own forums though? Unbelievable how much they avoid forums in favor of Twitter; it wouldn't even be hard to get their community manager (Tina) to make a post quoting Russ & Paul but PGI can't even manage that much.

[Sizer]

This was needed. As I suspected, you will have to make choices about optimizations for your particular mech and even then the values were/could be place holders.

TBH, I wouldn't have minded a small increase in the XP requirements....just 750,000 would be ridiculous.

Glad to see they aren't committing the cardinal sin of not communicating with the player base. I know we've been burned some in the past and things will happen, but just the fact that they are at least making some statements really assuages my fears.

Edited by Sizer, 06 December 2016 - 03:38 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bud Crue, on 06 December 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Imagine all the time and salt they could have saved all of us and them as well, if they would have mentioned some of this at mechcon, or better yet followed up here with a vision statement/explanation of intent.


Nah, the last couple of days has admittedly been more fun, if as always a waste of time.

Thanks for posting this Barantor.

On the other hand, they might very well have intended to go with the system they showed at Mechcon but due to the tremendous negative backlash, they are now backpedaling and telling it it won't be that bad. Seriously, I know alot of people complain about people complaining but negative feedback can be a very powerful tool.

Now honestly who knows the truth, but I would rather complain about something that concerns me than remain silent and "trust" that all will be well in the end.

[Edustaja]

Burke IV, on 06 December 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

So this skill tree, i have to fill it in perfectly first time round or i got to pay to respec? hmmmmmm

I guess this is the main idea. They force a lot of choice on you that you're likely to not choose the optimal path and need to pay up to correct them. Also the idea that mech lab is essentially behind a paywall is kind of gross.

[Barantor]

Pjwned, on 06 December 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Seems like a reasonable update that shows PGI isn't going to absolutely ruin everything, so cool; I guess I'll hold off on the doom & gloom a bit.

Why can't Russ and/or Paul bother to post this on their own forums though? Unbelievable how much they avoid forums in favor of Twitter; it wouldn't even be hard to get their community manager (Tina) to make a post quoting Russ & Paul but PGI can't even manage that much.

They do seem to avoid the forums sometimes, but when they are on here it is usually a lot of info at once so that's nice I guess.

The december roadmap update was pretty good. I do wish more time was spent at mechcon with these reveals though, the downtime on the stream between matches was pretty big and could've been used to show a more detailed example of these updated to MWO.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Sizer, on 06 December 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

This was needed. As I suspected, you will have to make choices about optimizations for your particular mech and even then the values were/could be place holders.

TBH, I wouldn't have minded a small increase in the XP requirements....just 750,000 would be ridiculous.

Glad to see they aren't committing the cardinal sin of not communicating with the player base. I know we've been burned some in the past and things will happen, but just the fact that they are at least making some statements really assuages my fears.

Nope, it's too late. Scores of salt miners have already quit the game over the values in the demo presentation. It's funny because most of them quit the game several times already.

[Nightmare1]

I know we're supposed to get our XP/GXP refunded, but has anyone heard anything about our C-bills? I know they're eliminating modules. I've got a stupid amount of C-bills invested in modules up to this point; if I lose it all, I'm going to be quite cross!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Nightmare1, on 06 December 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

I know we're supposed to get our XP/GXP refunded, but has anyone heard anything about our C-bills? I know they're eliminating modules. I've got a stupid amount of C-bills invested in modules up to this point; if I lose it all, I'm going to be quite cross!

Yup, full C-Bill refund on all affected modules.

[N0MAD]

Prosperity Park, on 06 December 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

Nope, it's too late. Scores of salt miners have already quit the game over the values in the demo presentation. It's funny because most of them quit the game several times already.

You seem more obsessed about salt miners than anything else, seems you have a problem with people having different ideas than yours.
Should we all check out your opinion on everything before we post so its in line with what you think so we are not classed as salt miners?

[Nightmare1]

N0MAD, on 06 December 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

So you can Respec for real $,, or you can respec for in game cash and lose you SP and have to grind it all over again..
Seems any feature these days needs to be behind a paywall..
Stock mode..paywall.
1v1 map...paywall.
Respec..paywall.
So if you want to tinker in the mech lab and try different builds its goin to cost you money real money or if you dont want to pay real money you goto spend weeks if not months to try a new build.
The guy that doesnt want to pay real money has to drive inferior mechs for an unspecified amount of time and keep doing that until he finds a build hes happy with, while the guy willing to pay real money gets to drive an Aced mech instantly, not P2W right? its pay for convenience, seems even the mech lab has been put behind a paywall.
I can see this being a real winner when it comes to new player retention and keeping F2P players...
How in the world is this going to promote build diversity?
This to me shows just how in experienced these guys are in game development.

Um, you do realize that the game is not actually "free," right? I mean, PGI has to pay their employees, their power bill, legal fees, etc. There has to be some paywalls here and there so that they can earn a profit to keep the lights on. They aren't a charity group.

It's amazing how nearly every F2P game I play, there's always some whiners who are upset that the devs dare to make a buck instead of just providing free entertainment solely at their own expense...

Burke IV, on 06 December 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

So this skill tree, i have to fill it in perfectly first time round or i got to pay to respec? hmmmmmm

Seems that way. That makes it similar to LOTRO and STO, actually. If anything though, it's friendlier than most F2P games I've seen, since most require you to pay real dollars in order to respec. At least we can do it for free here, albeit, with a grind.

I learned the hard way about spec'ing out in STO. I leveled a character up, spec'ing him as a did so like a noob. Then, when I hit the character cap, have my specs were useless since they were designed to help me grind levels. That's when I went to respec and learned that it was a couple bucks to respec my characters. That was pretty frustrating. STO did have a method to grind out the currency to respec, but it took an inordinate amount of time; much longer than this will likely take.

Prosperity Park, on 06 December 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Yup, full C-Bill refund on all affected modules.

Nice, thanks Park!

...Now if only we could convince them to stop giving away Premium Modules...

[RestosIII]

N0MAD, on 06 December 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

You seem more obsessed about salt miners than anything else, seems you have a problem with people having different ideas than yours.
Should we all check out your opinion on everything before we post so its in line with what you think so we are not classed as salt miners?

Basic summary of forums in general.

[Felicitatem Parco]

N0MAD, on 06 December 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

You seem more obsessed about salt miners than anything else, seems you have a problem with people having different ideas than yours.
Should we all check out your opinion on everything before we post so its in line with what you think so we are not classed as salt miners?

A better option would be to exercise patience and try to formulate your own options based on full fact sets as opposed to initial releases of demo/unfinished data sets.

Salt miners are always looking for ways to become grouchy, even when entirely unjustified. Like, for example, everyone who says it's unfair for them to have to re-level their mechs when they simultaneously complain that the old skill tree should be removed.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 06 December 2016 - 04:13 PM.

[Besh]

Burke IV, on 06 December 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

So this skill tree, i have to fill it in perfectly first time round or i got to pay to respec? hmmmmmm

You realize thats how it is in literally ANY MMO I know which inccorporates developing, or specializing a Character ?

The difference MW:O makes is, it gives you the opportunity to do it totally different to an basically identical "Character" ( = 'Mech. You can get duplicates of the same Variant and specialize ech one differently), as well as all over again in a myriad of ways on different "characters" ( = 'Mechs . You have a ton of Chassis with multiple Variants available, each of which you can specialize to your liking ) .

Bad ?

[Wintersdark]

Barantor, on 06 December 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Yeah all the assumptions seeming to pop up on here and reddit were getting out of hand almost. I'll be glad when we have even more information to base opinions on.

The only reason I posted these here was for visibility. I'm sure there will be some folks still ignoring them and talking about 750,000 xp though lol.

I've been following it on Twitter (the only thing I use Twitter for), but glad you posted it here too. I'm too lazy these days for that

It's good to see, though, the only really important question at this phase (before we get more detail about the system) is whether or not time to master was going to change. As it's not... I'm good with waiting now.

[N0MAD]

Nightmare1, on 06 December 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

Um, you do realize that the game is not actually "free," right? I mean, PGI has to pay their employees, their power bill, legal fees, etc. There has to be some paywalls here and there so that they can earn a profit to keep the lights on. They aren't a charity group.

You also need to realize that paywalling most new features drives away the F2P population, do you realise what % of most games F2P population is? its quite large drive these people away with to many paywalls and who is left to play with the whales?.
Of course they need to make money but they also need to keep that F2P population for the over all health of the game.

[Wintersdark]

Prosperity Park, on 06 December 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

A better option would be to exercise patience and try to formulate your own options based on full fact sets as opposed to initial releases of demo/unfinished data sets.

To be fair, he's also building his opinion based on panicked rumormongering that itself is based on clearly alpha build video.

That's why I was so strenuously objecting to people posting that they thought PGI wouldn't refund modules people had won, or got as preorder bonuses in mech packs, because he said "bought"... People should know by now that Russ never chooses his words carefully, and that just taking away preorder bonus / challenge award modules and giving you nothing would be absurdly bad.

Because one guy posts that, then some halfwit reads his post at takes that as fact and posts it elsewhere, then next thing you know it's a full on sh***torm about nothing.

Edited by Wintersdark, 06 December 2016 - 04:15 PM.

[FireStoat]

Thank you OP for posting the info. It's greatly appreciated.

[Felicitatem Parco]

N0MAD, on 06 December 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

You also need to realize that paywalling most new features drives away the F2P population, do you realise what % of most games F2P population is? its quite large drive these people away with to many paywalls and who is left to play with the whales?.
Of course they need to make money but they also need to keep that F2P population for the over all health of the game.

There is no Leveling pay wall. The only pay wall is undoing your future actions and then starting from scratch a second time.

The only wall would be if you invest 28 nodes into a Mech Variant and then later want to unspec it and respec from the beginning with all your nodes replenished.

[Y E O N N E]

Pjwned, on 06 December 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Why can't Russ and/or Paul bother to post this on their own forums though? Unbelievable how much they avoid forums in favor of Twitter; it wouldn't even be hard to get their community manager (Tina) to make a post quoting Russ & Paul but PGI can't even manage that much.

Because actually crafting a measured-but-articulate response to represent the official company line is more time consuming than many people give it credit for. If it's on the forums it's a "big deal." If it's just on Twitter, it can justifiably be classified as sound-boarding.

Some of those replies you and I exchanged recently? Took several hours to compose.

[Wintersdark]

Pjwned, on 06 December 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Seems like a reasonable update that shows PGI isn't going to absolutely ruin everything, so cool; I guess I'll hold off on the doom & gloom a bit.

Why can't Russ and/or Paul bother to post this on their own forums though? Unbelievable how much they avoid forums in favor of Twitter; it wouldn't even be hard to get their community manager (Tina) to make a post quoting Russ & Paul but PGI can't even manage that much.

Yeah, I normally try to stay out of this argument, but I do agree: While Russ should communicate however he wants, Tina should be making sure the forums get updates echoing that information.

Yeonne Greene, on 06 December 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Because actually crafting a measured-but-articulate response to represent the official company line is more time consuming than many people give it credit for. If it's on the forums it's a "big deal." If it's just on Twitter, it can justifiably be classified as sound-boarding.

Some of those replies you and I exchanged recently? Took several hours to compose.

This is why I'm fine with Russ just dropping tidbits on Twitter. Fast, easy, and obviously not held to the same level as a forum post, which people WILL take as solemn blood oath type gospel. Also, it's a lot easier to limit ongoing discussion on Twitter, which we want but I'm sure Russ doesn't want to spend all evening doing.

But... Tina should be chipping in here and at least maintaining a devtracker or some such.