97 replies to this topic

[Carl Vickers]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

And this is why I don't like Japanese Mecha anime. Nothing seems grounded in realism.

Lol, good point you made there, cause BT is soooo grounded in realism. GG

[Brenden]

Kasumi Sumika, on 06 December 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

When Battletech have to approach target audiences at Japanese at the time FASA ask Studio Nue and this guy to redesign.






All hail our Lord and Mech Father, Shoji Kawamori!

Shoji Kawamori? I'll have to look him up. Maybe he's still doing design work.

[Bombast]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

Shoji Kawamori? I'll have to look him up. Maybe he's still doing design work.

Were you just introduced to the concept of mecha 3 hours ago or something?

[Kasumi Sumika]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

Shoji Kawamori? I'll have to look him up. Maybe he's still doing design work.

He's still working as Mech Designer at Macross Delta with Studio Nue.

Fun Fact : Aside a original designer of Macross Unseen, He's also design G1 Optimus Prime and other Transformers.

Also worth a long read about his interesting story on mech design.
http://www.forbes.co...-never-credits/

[Requiemking]

The other designs are meh to me. The Dragon and the Spider, on the other hand, are a different story.......... GIMMIE NAOW.

[KoalaBrownie]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Like, seriously. I can understand wanting to go for a broader market, but why the hell did FASA change the design of the mechs around? I mean, look at them!
.
.
.
I know the Japanese are all into this curvy, smooth, bulbous design for their mechs, but come on FASA. That's just offensive.

Japanese don't like American stuff. You know how well the Xbox does in Japan? Very poorly is the answer.
Similarly, back in the 80s or whenever the Japanese version was made they re-did the designs for Japanese aesthetics. Also they can't use the Macross/Dougram/Crusher Joe stuff either.

Info on the Japanese version is all here: http://www.gearsonli...ies/battletech/

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

And this is why I don't like Japanese Mecha anime. Nothing seems grounded in realism.

You're just watching the wrong anime. Start with not-Gundam
For example, watch Armored Troopers VOTOMS, the inspiration for Battletech-rival Heavy Gear. It's fairly realistic. Here's a short clip from one of the many OVA or series available.

Edited by KoalaBrownie, 06 December 2016 - 09:56 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I don't think there exist toys of any of the model designs OP posted.

Those designs could be an absolute nightmare to fabricate having so many compound curves.

If you look at modern mass vehicle designs they're normally optimized to have as few compound curves as possible to make them cheaper and easier to mass produce.

Those japanese mecha designs are the extreme opposite to that.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 06 December 2016 - 09:51 PM.

[Radbane]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Like, seriously. I can understand wanting to go for a broader market, but why the hell did FASA change the design of the mechs around? I mean, look at them!

Because they're all seriusly awful? And I mean like ... nope I cannot use words like that here .. I'll stick to awful

[Dee Eight]

If you want giant mecha, especially transformable ones... you go see Shoji. If you want cyborgs, battlesuits and personal power armor... you go see Shiro Masamune which is the pen name of artist Masanori Ota. He's the guy behind Dominion, Black Magic, Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell. He is capable of giant stuff too, such as the mobile gun platforms in Appleseed.

[Anjian]

Shoji Kawamori also did much work on Armored Core, including White Glint. Armored Core 4Answer which featured White Glint is Hidetaka Miyazaki's second work on the series, and he would later go to work on the Dark Souls series.

I also liked his work on the Aquarion and Eureka Seven series.

Though BT took designs from his work on Macross, I would think overall, BT owes a greater influence in the works and style of Ryosuke Takahashi, who was responsible for Dougram, Votoms, SPT Layzner, Panzer World Galient, Gasaraki and Blue Gender.

[Dee Eight]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

Shoji Kawamori? I'll have to look him up. Maybe he's still doing design work.

Oh he never stops. Look up his wiki entry, Macross Delta only finished its television broadcast run 3 months ago.

[Kasumi Sumika]

Anjian, on 06 December 2016 - 10:08 PM, said:

Shoji Kawamori also did much work on Armored Core, including White Glint. Armored Core 4Answer which featured White Glint is Hidetaka Miyazaki's second work on the series, and he would later go to work on the Dark Souls series.

I also liked his work on the Aquarion and Eureka Seven series.

Though BT took designs from his work on Macross, I would think overall, BT owes a greater influence in the works and style of Ryosuke Takahashi, who was responsible for Dougram, Votoms, SPT Layzner, Panzer World Galient, Gasaraki and Blue Gender.

Yup, his White Glint concept art are somewhat identical to his Phoenix Hawk design.

[CycKath]

Some of the Japanese BattleTech art DID appear in US BattleTech, serving as some of the Solaris VII boxset designs. Post-FASA Unseen paranoia all those designs got reworked art-work in Technical Readout: 3055 Upgrade.

[Snowbluff]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

And this is why I don't like Japanese Mecha anime. Nothing seems grounded in realism.

Yep, nothing it grounded in realism.

No wait, you just watch ****.

EDIT: Hats off to Shoji. I'm a big Armored Core fan.

Edited by Snowbluff, 06 December 2016 - 10:56 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Snowbluff, on 06 December 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

Yep, nothing it grounded in realism.

No wait, you just watch ****.

EDIT: Hats off to Shoji. I'm a big Armored Core fan.

To me Gundam MS 08th Team was the most realistic mech show I have ever seen. The other quiet realistic one was Mobile Suit Gundam (the first one).

Those shows were at heart really shows about war and the soldiers fighting those wars (in big robots ).

Sadly no idea why, mech shows degraded after that to now you have WTF, Gundam Seed and all it's descendants. Mechs have gone from war machines to flying music platforms and/or Super Man replacements. And Pilots have gone from soldiers to antsy young kids, that have abilities that would make Luke Skywalker jealous. Oh also, I guess they must have stopped wearing Red Shirts because NO ONE (main characters) near EVER DIES!

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 06 December 2016 - 11:10 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Brenden, on 06 December 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Like, seriously. I can understand wanting to go for a broader market, but why the hell did FASA change the design of the mechs around? I mean, look at them!
Hermes II

Archer

Hunchback

Dragon

Panther

Chameleon

I know the Japanese are all into this curvy, smooth, bulbous design for their mechs, but come on FASA. That's just offensive.

Fasa Didn't... Studio Nue did.

[Snowbluff]

Gaden Phoenix, on 06 December 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

To me Gundam MS 08th Team was the most realistic mech show I have ever seen. The other quiet realistic one was Mobile Suit Gundam (the first one).

Those shows were at heart really shows about war and the soldiers fighting those wars (in big robots ).

Sadly no idea why, mech shows degraded after that to now you have WTF, Gundam Seed and all it's descendants. Mechs have gone from war machines to flying music platforms and/or Super Man replacements. And Pilots have gone from soldiers to antsy young kids, that have abilities that would make Luke Skywalker jealous. Oh also, I guess they must have stopped wearing Red Shirts because NO ONE (main characters) near EVER DIES!

I didn't find the original Gundam too realistic honestly. Unicorn is more realistic, but then again, both end with "WTF Newtypes." Amuro was the second most angsty pilot, next to Kamille.

The directing gets a whole lot better with the later series as well, letting you see things like inertia better. There is also a HUGE amount of detail in even the most innocuous scenes. There is this one scene where 2 Rezel are fighting a Zulu, and the commander goes to try and disable it, presumably to capture the pilot for information. Later on the subordinate unit takes a lethal shot while the commander signals it to cease fire. No words, just storytelling through action.

19:00 (in this TV version. The OVA version was better)

Spoiler

Marida dies in Unicorn.

Edited by Snowbluff, 06 December 2016 - 11:37 PM.

[SpectreHD]

Kasumi Sumika, on 06 December 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

When Battletech have to approach target audiences at Japanese at the time FASA ask Studio Nue and this guy to redesign.






All hail our Lord and Mech Father, Shoji Kawamori!

I would also like to highlight that everything posted in the OP was by Shoji Kawamori.

For those who are uninitiated, many of the early BT mechs like the Unseens were his designs from Macross.

And yes, Praise be Shoji Kawamori.

[Anjian]

Gaden Phoenix, on 06 December 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

To me Gundam MS 08th Team was the most realistic mech show I have ever seen. The other quiet realistic one was Mobile Suit Gundam (the first one).

Those shows were at heart really shows about war and the soldiers fighting those wars (in big robots ).

Sadly no idea why, mech shows degraded after that to now you have WTF, Gundam Seed and all it's descendants. Mechs have gone from war machines to flying music platforms and/or Super Man replacements. And Pilots have gone from soldiers to antsy young kids, that have abilities that would make Luke Skywalker jealous. Oh also, I guess they must have stopped wearing Red Shirts because NO ONE (main characters) near EVER DIES!

Corporate take over of the franchise, thanks to Bandai and Sunrise. Tomino is always bitter about that. His vision of Gundam tends to be much darker than what his corporate superiors would allow. But he does have a taste for blood "kill'em all" like George R. R. Martin on his main characters that always slip through into his series, to the point that its become somewhat traditional in a Gundam series, those not even of his direction, to have a high body count.

The currently running, second season of Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans isn't a Tomino work but a bit of a testimony of his style. The protagonists has shown they would resort to cold blooded murder to those who betrayed their "family".

Another legacy of Tomino is the dark post-humanism-transhumanism of his universe, which many of the Gundam alt-universes. Remove the mechs and you got shows that feel like the Expanse in SyFy.

Tomino's last work, G-Reconguista, felt pretty weird to me to me, I think his age, cynicism and maybe growing senility getting to him.

Macross Delta, that finished its first season already last summer. But the story hasn't concluded yet, waiting for the second season.

Mecha shows hasn't taken off that great lately, compared to magic girl shows, shows based on video games, and the dominance of slice of life shows in anime.

[Tristan Winter]

In the 70s, 80s and 90s, not all Japanese robot designs were cool. But all the cool robot designs were Japanese.

Bombast, on 06 December 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

I'm not sure if you're trying to lay bait for a Harmony Gold thread on purpose, or if you're just bumbling your way into one.

EDIT: Also, offensive? ***** sake.

Japanese sake?