98 replies to this topic

[TLBFestus]

TWIAFU, on 08 December 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

You know the odds, they range from Common to Rare.

Those are not "odds", those are "descriptions".

[naterist]

TLBFestus, on 08 December 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

Really? Sure seems like gambling to most of us. Regardless of the fact that PGI and other companies are using the "Your aren't paying cash, your are BUYING MC and using it to open crates, therefore it's not gambling" loophole, anyone who uses MC is really paying cash for a random outcome in which they hope to win something valuable.

You are gambling, paying a small amount in hopes of winning a larger amount.

Personally, I'm in favor of it being mandatory that these companies be legislated to reveal the actual odds of winning.

We've seen in this thread that some think it's 1:1000 to win a mech and others feel it might be as low as 1:100. That's a significant difference, and for all we know it might be 1:5000. What's important is that people should be making informed decisions/choices even when they gamble.

Players can figure out or be gladly told the odds of winning in various games of chance in Vegas, it's no secret. Why should it be here?

not knowiung the drop rate is like..../. 99% of the fun. if you dont like the risk, sell em for c-bills.

[TWIAFU]

TLBFestus, on 09 December 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

Those are not "odds", those are "descriptions".

Descriptions of the odds.

The odds of getting a mech are very rare while the odds for getting cbills is common.

I get it Festus, I really do, people want numerical descriptions for these BS boxes. If PGI wants to do that for the players, sure, go for it.

I eagerly await posts that someones free key didnt give them exactly what they wanted, again, even with numerical descriptors. I eager await the sh*tstorm when people see that a mech only have a few percent, for example, to be won and want it higher. Happens now and will still happen if they give out numbers.

What I am vehemently opposed to is using Chinese Law as a reason we should have it or will have it. If it was not for using that as evidence that it will happen here, my replies to this topic would have been far different in most cases.

Make a solid case that it is of benefit to the MWO community as a whole and I could very well get behind that idea. However, making the case that this is going to happen to MWO outside of China in light of actual fact will not fly.

[TWIAFU]

naterist, on 09 December 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

not knowiung the drop rate is like..../. 99% of the fun. if you dont like the risk, sell em for c-bills.

I only open boxes from Free MC. If that box does not have at least a 2-3 Orange and at least one one step lower item, it is sold. Even then, the lowest level item has to be something decent, MC, Cbills. I pad my "odds" with things there I would like to have.

I don't automatically open a box if I see a mech and then complain I didn't get it. I make damn sure the lowest level item and more then likely the winning item will be of use and enough higher level oranges to make it worth my time.

Doing it that way, never been disappointed and raked in some nice free loot.

[Moldur]

The entire concept of gambling is that it isn't worth it for the consumer, so I don't really know what shocking revelations you guys expect to find besides knowing by exactly what amount you are getting railed.

[TWIAFU]

Moldur, on 09 December 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

The entire concept of gambling is that it isn't worth it for the consumer, so I don't really know what shocking revelations you guys expect to find besides knowing by exactly what amount you are getting railed.

Fuel for the rage fire?

[KoalaBrownie]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

However, that depends on where you are doesn't it?

Hard to share information if your internet access is censored to the point where you are blocked, by Governmental Law, on what you are able to access.

So it's difficult for a chinese gamer to share numbers on a video game because his government prevents him from watching youtube?



Nice logic kid.

Censoring content on domestic websites is entirely separate from blocking internal websites.

[TWIAFU]

KoalaBrownie, on 09 December 2016 - 04:55 PM, said:

So it's difficult for a chinese gamer to share numbers on a video game because his government prevents him from watching youtube?



Nice logic kid.

Censoring content on domestic websites is entirely separate from blocking internal websites.

Again, nice try, but only thing you have done here, kid, is show your lack of understanding and knowledge of the topic.

Go educate yourself and come back, we can talk then.

[cazidin]

I'm STILL not seeing a reasonable argument for why people want to know that that shiny new mech from the loot crate has a less than 1% chance. We already know the house has stacked the deck against us, why do we want the specifics?

[TLBFestus]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

Descriptions of the odds.

The odds of getting a mech are very rare while the odds for getting cbills is common.

I get it Festus, I really do, people want numerical descriptions for these BS boxes. If PGI wants to do that for the players, sure, go for it.

I eagerly await posts that someones free key didnt give them exactly what they wanted, again, even with numerical descriptors. I eager await the sh*tstorm when people see that a mech only have a few percent, for example, to be won and want it higher. Happens now and will still happen if they give out numbers.

What I am vehemently opposed to is using Chinese Law as a reason we should have it or will have it. If it was not for using that as evidence that it will happen here, my replies to this topic would have been far different in most cases.

Make a solid case that it is of benefit to the MWO community as a whole and I could very well get behind that idea. However, making the case that this is going to happen to MWO outside of China in light of actual fact will not fly.

Thing is, I doubt PGI or any company that does this, wants the playerbase to actually know the real odds of winning. If we did it may discourage players from even attempting it.

I'd be willing to guess that the odds of winning a mech are no better than the amount of keys that would be purchased to equal the average mech price in c-bills,. That way PGI gets money for every mech they "give away". Honestly, I bet that the odds are a lot worse than that.

The simple fact is that paying for keys to unlock crates is a suckers game. As such it's not for me, but I understand that some people get off on that sort of risk/thrill.

They did improve the wheel somewhat by adding the colors for "common, rare, etc" but it still looks like you've got a 1/8 chance while the damn thing spins (at least to the uninitiated and stupid). Keep in mind that I live in Soviet Canuckistan and we are more used to the government sticking it's nose in our business. Sometimes it's with the best of intentions, such us protecting the gullible.

Edited by TLBFestus, 09 December 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[TWIAFU]

TLBFestus, on 09 December 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

Keep in mind that I live in Soviet Canuckistan and we are more used to the government sticking it's nose in our business. Sometimes it's with the best of intentions, such us protecting the gullible.

We got you beat friend.

We have to put warning labels on peanut butter that it contain peanuts and on milk that it contain lactose.

Got to protect the stupid from themselves being stupid.



TYVM Festus, and all others, minus a couple, for the enjoyable debate.

/respect.

[TLBFestus]

Good jousting with you too!

[Dimento Graven]

cazidin, on 09 December 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'm STILL not seeing a reasonable argument for why people want to know that that shiny new mech from the loot crate has a less than 1% chance. We already know the house has stacked the deck against us, why do we want the specifics?

Why not? Theoretically we're told the specifics on all aspects of the game already, why should this be different?

How would we feel if PGI's stats on things like, oh I dunno, heat sinks was:

IS HEAT SINK - Rating: Ok.

IS Double Heat Sink - Rating: Good.

Clan Double Heat Sink - Rating: Good.

IS LRM - Range: Not Short - Long

Clan LRM - Range: Short - Long

Small Laser - Damage: Some Range: Short

Medium Laser - Damage: More Range: Medium

Large Laser - Damage: A lot Range: Long

I mean, how would know how to compare the ranges and damage and capabilities of anything if the actual stats were given in this manner?

Yeah, yeah, what happens with unlocking a supply cache has no bearing in the game, but still this is more or less the precedent you're setting on the level of information you're willing to accept from PGI.

Nah, let's just get the real detail and move on.

It will not hurt anything for us to know the specifics.

[KoalaBrownie]

TWIAFU, on 09 December 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

Again, nice try, but only thing you have done here, kid, is show your lack of understanding and knowledge of the topic.

Go educate yourself and come back, we can talk then.

Mimicking my rhetoric doesn't make you appear smart, particularly when you fail to support your statements with any sort of facts. All it says is that you can neither back up your opinions with facts, nor form your own original statements, relying instead of copying what the other has said.

As for my opinion, that the significance of this ruling is supportive of gaming as a whole, it's supported by journalists who are asking the same broad minded questions:

http://kotaku.com/ch...iscl-1789828850
https://techraptor.n...-get-more-money
http://www.gosugamer...-box-drop-rates
http://www.gamezone....ilities-3446251

[L3mming2]

KoalaBrownie, on 10 December 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Mimicking my rhetoric doesn't make you appear smart, particularly when you fail to support your statements with any sort of facts. All it says is that you can neither back up your opinions with facts, nor form your own original statements, relying instead of copying what the other has said.

As for my opinion, that the significance of this ruling is supportive of gaming as a whole, it's supported by journalists who are asking the same broad minded questions:

http://kotaku.com/ch...iscl-1789828850
https://techraptor.n...-get-more-money
http://www.gosugamer...-box-drop-rates
http://www.gamezone....ilities-3446251

read his links they are quite usefull ..
good points tnx for the efford

[NextGame]

I got a highlander IIC yesterday from a supply crate, which is pretty much useless as I already have one

Edited by NextGame, 11 December 2016 - 02:14 AM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

As a person that played Asian games and Chinese (not only Cheena) games, I can tell you the loot chances for certain loot can be SUPER DUPER SMALL but once you buy a certain amount of boxes, you need to buy more and more and more and more to get that one item that you cannot live without. In the end, you wake up and you found you have spent way more then you expected or budgeted. In the hundreds for just maybe one event.

This law can actually be a good one to help protect it's citizen online gamers. Remember only in certain countries is the freedom to do stupid or harmful things considered their own problem and their right. In most Asian countries, it is considered something to save their countrymen from aka to regulate. And in China, they take it to the extreme. But at least they not yet outright banning/limiting amount you can buy.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 11 December 2016 - 02:57 AM.

[TWIAFU]

KoalaBrownie, on 10 December 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Mimicking my rhetoric doesn't make you appear smart, particularly when you fail to support your statements with any sort of facts. All it says is that you can neither back up your opinions with facts, nor form your own original statements, relying instead of copying what the other has said.

As for my opinion, that the significance of this ruling is supportive of gaming as a whole, it's supported by journalists who are asking the same broad minded questions:

http://kotaku.com/ch...iscl-1789828850
https://techraptor.n...-get-more-money
http://www.gosugamer...-box-drop-rates
http://www.gamezone....ilities-3446251

First link;

"Now, these disclosures will only be required in China,"

Well, we dont live IN CHINA.

Second link;

" Unfortunately, as you may know, these loot boxes are just one step away from gambling in that if you decide to purchase a loot box, you don’t know what you’re getting in them, and you obviously can’t get a refund if you don’t get what you want from them."

Well, we DO know what is in the loot boxes before we open them.

Third link;

"Big name publishers such as Valve, Blizzard and Riot Games will have to make some information readily available to the public if they want their games to be played in China."


Well, PGI is not 'big named' and is not Vlave, Blizzard, or Riot Games. Again, clearly states IN CHINA. Not to mention, that article is about Overwatch and we are not playing Overwatch are we?

Fourth link;

"While it sounds like another case of China overreaching its communist powers"

Yep, sure does sound like that and reads like that. Not to mention that article is about Overwatch, Hearthstone, and Counter-Strike. No mention of PGI or our lil niche game.

Failed to mention any of those facts.

But keep trying


By all means, keep asserting that you and all of us should be forced to abide by chinese law. Ready to accept that you cannot play games for more then three hours a day or have loot boxes turned off because that is chinese law too?

Gaden Phoenix, on 11 December 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

As a person that played Asian games and Chinese (not only Cheena) games, I can tell you the loot chances for certain loot can be SUPER DUPER SMALL but once you buy a certain amount of boxes, you need to buy more and more and more and more to get that one item that you cannot live without. In the end, you wake up and you found you have spent way more then you expected or budgeted. In the hundreds for just maybe one event.

This law can actually be a good one to help protect it's citizen online gamers. Remember only in certain countries is the freedom to do stupid or harmful things considered their own problem and their right. In most Asian countries, it is considered something to save their countrymen from aka to regulate. And in China, they take it to the extreme. But at least they not yet outright banning/limiting amount you can buy.

Well, they turn off your game by embedded code after three hours of play and/or shut off loot boxes.

So, i guess now we have to abide by chinese law to have numerical odds posted and we have to have our game turned off by government decree. Chinese Law and we have to follow it, right?

[Gaden Phoenix]

TWIAFU, on 11 December 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

So, i guess now we have to abide by chinese law to have numerical odds posted and we have to have our game turned off by government decree. Chinese Law and we have to follow it, right?

Whoever says we must follow it? Unless you are playing from China. Even if PGI publishes the loot box chances they dont really lose anything. But why in the first place would PGI want to cater to China market? And even if they do, China will have their own special client.

My above post has no relevance to your posts at all. Even if you are saying that you are strongly against PGI changing the game code specifically for China? I must say ... I don't think they will actually even consider it. PGI has no stake in China seeing as the Great Firewall is strong and MWO is small. And those that really want to play will just use VPN anyways.

I am just saying it is a good practice for players to know the chances of loot boxes and that China has a right to do so.

No where did I say that MWO client for the whole world must code for China market.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 11 December 2016 - 06:56 AM.