315 replies to this topic

[Mechteric]

Quote

Escort is a brand new, asynchronous Game Mode for Quick Play. Teams are assigned the role of either the Attacker or the Defender, with separate objectives and win conditions for each side.

Asymmetric is the word you're looking for

[Y E O N N E]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 December 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

Would this look good? I'm working on a full list of my dream stats for every weapon.

Damage: 3
Burn time: 0.75 -> 0.6
Cooldown: 3 -> 2.4
DPS: 1 -> 1.25
Heat: 2 -> 1.5
HPS: 0.67 -> 0.625
Optimal range: 150
Max range: 300

Nope, DPS is too low for such short range and also because I can't bring 12+ of these things on any 'Mech, unlike cERSL.

This is actually what I have in mind for starters:

Damage: 3
Duration: 0.75s
Cool-down: 1 s (this does not include duration, this is cool-down only)
DPS: 1.71
Heat: 2
Optimal Range: 150 m
Max Range: 300 m

If it's still not enough, reduce cool-down to 0.75s. They really need the DPS to offset the facetime required to get the damage out. Leave heat alone, it's plenty cold on any 'Mech you stick it on and if we drop it to 1, we're A.) not gaining much and B.) removing the only organic limiter it might need.

[Rhialto]

Holy Jackson, on 10 December 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

The tighter grouping puts many more bullets into the open component though, so that increases crits.

oops forgot about that change so yes good buff overall for people who can aim properly under stress...

[Gentleman Reaper]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 December 2016 - 05:29 PM, said:

Nope, DPS is too low for such short range and also because I can't bring 12+ of these things on any 'Mech, unlike cERSL.

This is actually what I have in mind for starters:

Damage: 3
Duration: 0.75s
Cool-down: 1 s (this does not include duration, this is cool-down only)
DPS: 1.71
Heat: 2
Optimal Range: 150 m
Max Range: 300 m

If it's still not enough, reduce cool-down to 0.75s. They really need the DPS to offset the facetime required to get the damage out. Leave heat alone, it's plenty cold on any 'Mech you stick it on and if we drop it to 1, we're A.) not gaining much and B.) removing the only organic limiter it might need.

That puts it at a higher DPS than the ERSL, or even the ML and MPL for that matter

[Gentleman Reaper]

Right, you made that chart a while back on the ED forum, you happen to have the formula you used, I'd like to test it with tweaked heat and damage values.

[Ano]

The changes look interesting, and the FP changes and the staged approach (with "fluff"!) has me a little excited, but I think I mostly want to say thanks for explaining the *why*.

Hopefully even people who disagree with the what will appreciate knowing that!

[Dee Eight]

Normalizing the DHS between IS and Clan models to the same dissipation and capacity just brings balance to the force. This is going to be especially important for new players coming to the game so as to not confuse them as to why IS and Clan DHS had different stats. The only change to the clan one is capacity. The cooling was already 0.15/sec for external mounted. You might be capable of a few more high output firings, but once you've heated your mech up, its not going to be able to cool down any quicker than right now, and so the sustained DPS isn't increasing at all. Also Clan energy weapons still do more heat. A 12 ERML Nova is still going to cook itself good and proper in a couple volleys.

[Arkhangel]

As it should, given the Nova Prime never WAS known for being heat efficient.

[Y E O N N E]

Gentleman Reaper, on 10 December 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

That puts it at a higher DPS than the ERSL, or even the ML and MPL for that matter

Which it should be, because it's close-range.

That's the rule of thumb; if you are going to take the risk of short-range weapons, the damage they are capable of dealing has to be worth it. Until it does become worth that trade-off, it will never get taken.

[cougurt]

these gauss rifle changes just keep making single gauss a less and less attractive option, while having little impact on dual gauss/ppc + gauss.

[Sereglach]

Ok, PGI, I'm not getting my hopes up, yet, but this patch does show a bit of promise. The fact that Russ mentioned on Twitter that there's a new employee working 100% on game balance makes me intrigued, as well. Is it one of the number of players (Odanon or McGral18 immediately come to mind) that have made remarks on the forums a number of times of being willing to work for PGI on making game balance happen? I'm not going to lie, I wouldn't be upset to see one of those two at the balance helm . . . then I know I'd have a decent chance of seeing Flamers actually get fixed . . . especially if it was McGral18.

Actually making lore-based tanky mechs tankier is something I've been asking to have happen to quirks for ages. Seeing the Urbanmech and Wolfhound receive some sorely deserved armor quirks is a nice change of pace. I'm curious to see how these quirks unfold upon reaching the "Skill Tree Overhaul" that Russ gave the hard date of February patch for. This curiosity is compounded by the fact that "Core Quirks" that are "necessary" for certain chassis won't be going away when the "Skill Tree Overhaul" hits. Maybe we'll finally see certain attributes of mechs get hard-wired into the chassis instead of being quirks or based on engine size? Getting in more chassis variety with fixed torso-twist speeds, chassis-specific armor caps, and more variety in engine caps may go a long way to helping balance mechs.

Anyway, the MG changes are promising. I'd have rather seen the COF completely removed from the MGs, but a 60% reduction is a nice start. At least we're seeing consistent single component hits (albeit on an assault) within optimal range, which is a stark improvement. Why DPS wasn't just increased straight to 1.0 DPS I'm a bit confused on, since .95 DPS is basically right there. Regardless, it's a buff that MGs have desperately needed for a LONG time, and they're finally getting at least a start of balance iteration. That is appreciated . . . if overdue.

For further weapon balance the IS Small Laser is in dire need of help. A simple XML change returning the TT 1 heat, instead of the current MWO 2 heat, would change the weapon instantly. That change to its Heat to Damage ratio could make it more valuable for knife fighting to coincide with the recent buff to the weapon's range.

Do I even have to mention the poor Flamer and its sad state? Well, yes, because they're my favorite weapon system of Battletech. Get rid of all the convoluted mechanics that PGI threw onto a weapon that they completely destroyed. Make it fixed and flat values that match every other weapon system in the game. 1.0 DPS, 2.0 Heat DPS, 1.0 HPS make the weapon fully viable, functional, and actually capable of damaging mechs (like it's supposed to be able to do; and .1 DPS doesn't count as damage) while making the Heat Damage and Heat Buildup noticeable but not brokenly overpowered or capable of being spammed non-stop. It's a simple and elegant fix, PGI. Please, Mr./Mrs. new employee . . . please take note of this and fix this poor weapon system. Even if the provided numbers aren't perfect it's a solid stepping stone that should be pursued, please. I'm begging here.

The Clan standard AC shift is a solid start, but personally I think they need even shorter cooldowns to make them an actually viable choice as a weapon system. If they had 75% the cooldown rate of the clan UACs then you'd have an actual choice of a slightly better single-shot-consistent DPS rate vs. the superior burst DPS rate of the C-UACs. LBX's can be differentiated from this with an increase in pellet damage (1.2-1.5 per pellet to start) which provides a higher overall damage value, albeit spread, along with superior critting potential. The exact same methodology can be utilized on the IS series of autocannons to achieve the same level of variety and differentiation.

Lastly on the balance front, I don't understand the heat capacity increases at all. I at least understand the cooling normalization, but the higher capacity pretty much eliminates any progress made on curbing the "laser vomit meta" in favor of more weapon variety. I sincerely would like to see a return to attempts to balance the entire heat and TTK facets of MWO in the near future. There was a lot of useful information and concepts (like Pulse Laser overhauls) garnered from the Energy Draw PTS runs. Maybe there's more to be utilized in the near future with this focus on game balance and the new dedicated balance employee.

For FW/CW 4.1 the changes seem to be a move in the right direction. At least the Tug-of-War mechanics seem logical; and the shift away from the MOBA knock-off choke-point maps for most of the gameplay will provide familiarity for most of the PUGs that mainly play QP. The shift also instantly opens up FW to more variety than "defend/attack the generators . . . but mostly just kill everybody" and "get more kills (maybe destroy a MFB) then hide the rest of the match". However, we'll need to see how it plays out; and it's going to instantly put a significant emphasis on the need to achieve gameplay balance between IS technology and Clan technology.

As a side note to that IS/Clan balance, the concept of decreasing component health to significantly smaller and lighter clan equipment seems like a logical shift in that direction . . . allowing you to alter another value that doesn't need to be set in stone to maintain Battletech Mech build integrity. I'm fascinated to see how this continues to play out in the long run.

We still don't know enough about escort mode for me to make any sort of judgments on it, yet. First impression is that it's going to be a rush to leg the Atlas to ensure victory, given the "auto-win" conditions . . . since doing so early enough basically guarantees a win one way or another. If the Atlas is a unique "escort" variant with the equivalent of max Hardened Armor (50% damage reduction in TT . . . or basically double max armor values), the dual AMS of the "AS7-K", and ECM of the "AS7-D-DC", then it might be a force to contend with. Otherwise, if it's just a run of the mill Atlas that can't defend itself, then I see them getting shredded left and right. Only time will tell. Even Russ himself said at Mech-Con that he "has no idea how it will play out in the live environment."

[mad kat]

Escort mode....... Just bring a pack of locusts and spiders Nothing brings down a fatlass quicker than expert rear armour chewers.

[Kmieciu]

C-DHS capacity increase affects brawling more than long-range laser vomit.

Laser vomit can hide between pokes and more capacity will not affect the frequency of shots nor the DPS.

Capacity is most important for brawlers, because it affects how much damage you can deliver before overheating.

That means we will see the biggest shift in scouting where SPL&SRM clanners will be able to deliver even more damage.

Edited by Kmieciu, 11 December 2016 - 01:40 AM.

[Calebos]

"Mech-on-'Mech collisions will now operate much more smoothly, causing less 'rubber-banding' and warping. These improvements should have a great effect on the feel of close-quarters combat."

Really? With current expirience with PGI's work it will produce horrible laggy movements and so many funny bugs that it would be rather better to wait for some reasonable new engine implementation. Far Cry engine is rubbish useless sh*t. But to be honest I do not believe you a word PGI.

[Dee Eight]

Fix the hit registration maybe if the collisions are being fixed. I love when I die and it says I did 158 damage...and that was JUST SRMs into one timberwolf...and yet he didn't lose any components. Also what the hell is it with the archers where if someone shoots the open door in the air...it bypasses the armor altogether ?

[Hardrian]

Looking forward to the new Faction play , I can finally go Clan Wolf loyalist fulltime and leave quick play behind forever! <3

[Ovion]

Dee Eight, on 11 December 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

Fix the hit registration maybe if the collisions are being fixed. I love when I die and it says I did 158 damage...and that was JUST SRMs into one timberwolf...and yet he didn't lose any components. Also what the hell is it with the archers where if someone shoots the open door in the air...it bypasses the armor altogether ?

A Timber Wolf has roughly 460pts of armour, and 237pts of internal HP, for a total of 697.
Has the following totals per component (using the ratio I would use at any rate):
31 Head
72 Arms
96 Legs
86/10 Side Torsos
126/12 Center Torso

So 158 spread across 3-4 components would average 40-50 damage a component.
Even split across 2 components, it'd be barely enough to take off an arm, but not any other component.

[Navid A1]

Please note:

the Clan double heat sink buff will only apply to external double heat sinks.

meaning that you only get 0.4 heat cap per external dhs.

for example, on a mech with 10+10 doubles, you only get 4 more heat cap... which is nothing to write home about.
So, relax, laser vomit apocalypse is just in your head!

[Dee Eight]

Ovion, on 11 December 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

A Timber Wolf has roughly 460pts of armour, and 237pts of internal HP, for a total of 697.
Has the following totals per component (using the ratio I would use at any rate):
31 Head
72 Arms
96 Legs
86/10 Side Torsos
126/12 Center Torso

So 158 spread across 3-4 components would average 40-50 damage a component.
Even split across 2 components, it'd be barely enough to take off an arm, but not any other component.

Yes but to the REAR torso only ?

[Ovion]

Dee Eight, on 11 December 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

Yes but to the REAR torso only ?

I didn't add the internal HP for rear did I, like a numpty.

86/42
126/58

So yes, entirely possible with spread.