176 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

Isn't the Hunchback IIC-A with twin ER PPCs regarded as very strong/Tier 1 mech? And with loyalty hardpoints, the Summoner outclasses that mech by a fair margin.

[MOBAjobg]

HBK IIC-A is a smaller and faster mech than the Summoner loyalty variant so as far as I'm concerned, HBK IIC-A is better than it.

Tells me that you're clueless, Zergling. Play it and you'll find out too.

Edited by MOBAjobg, 13 December 2016 - 06:22 PM.

[Zergling]

MOBAjobg, on 13 December 2016 - 06:21 PM, said:

HBK IIC-A is a smaller and faster mech than the Summoner loyalty variant so as far as I'm concerned, HBK IIC-A is better than it.

Tells me that you're clueless, Zergling. Play it and you'll find out too.

The HBK IIC-A is smaller yes, but it is only 5 kph faster and doesn't have the 70% acceleration/deceleration, 35% turn rate and 40% torso yaw rate quirks.

At the same time, it is much less durable (less armor/structure due to being lighter, plus Summoner has structure quirks) and doesn't have ER PPC velocity or cooldown quirks and overheats easier.

[a gaijin]

Zergling, on 13 December 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

Isn't the Hunchback IIC-A with twin ER PPCs regarded as very strong/Tier 1 mech? And with loyalty hardpoints, the Summoner outclasses that mech by a fair margin.

Though I'm just a freeborn, tier 3 mechwarrior, I concur.
Just checked metamechs to find that the dual nipple Summoner is low tier 1, right next to the ER PPC Hunchback IIC/HBK-IIC-A.

I guess that could cause some jealousy(?) and/or distress(?) among some Hunchback IIC pilots...?


Summoner only has roughly 10 more points armor [per section] than Hunchback IIC (and about 20 more for CT) so it does make sense that it, being a heavy, should outclass it a little bit. I believe that's a reasonable margin.


edits typos/clarification

Edited by Star Commander Horse, 13 December 2016 - 06:36 PM.

[MOBAjobg]

Zergling, on 13 December 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

The HBK IIC-A is smaller yes, but it is only 5 kph faster and doesn't have the 70% acceleration/deceleration, 35% turn rate and 40% torso yaw rate quirks.

At the same time, it is much less durable (less armor/structure due to being lighter, plus Summoner has structure quirks) and doesn't have ER PPC velocity or cooldown quirks and overheats easier.

I can understand the rationale of you as the defender of HBK IIC-A; medium mech pilot detected.

[Zergling]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 December 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:

Though I'm just a freebirth, tier 3 mechwarrior, I concur.
Just checked metamechs to find that the dual nipple Summoner is low tier 1, right next to the ER PPC Hunchback IIC/HBK-IIC-A.

I guess that could cause some jealousy(?) and/or distress(?) among some Hunchback IIC pilots...?


Summoner only has roughly 10 more points armor than Hunchback IIC (and about 20 more for CT) so it does make sense that it, being a heavy, should outclass it a little bit. I believe that's a reasonable margin.

Yeah, here's two builds for Hunchback IIC-A vs Summoner: 21 vs 24 double heat sinks (I usually sacrifice 4 heatsinks for a TarComp IV on my Summoner though).

With the Summoner having -10% heat generation quirk, that difference is much larger in practice; it is a much cooler running mech, while firing faster thanks to 5% ER PPC cooldown + 5% energy cooldown.

MOBAjobg, on 13 December 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

I can understand the rationale of you as the defender of HBK IIC-A; medium mech pilot detected.

Lol

I don't own any Hunchback IIC, but I think I might make it my next mech to go for. Apart from my Summoners and finishing mastering my Black Widow this month, I've been playing Blackjacks. I think I'll finish mastering the BJ-2 and Arrow, then buy some Hunch IICs.

If I hadn't already spent around $300 AUD on MWO in the last 3 months, I'd buy the IIC pack instead... but eh, I can't justify to myself spending any more money on a single game (for at least another year), even if I am a diehard Battletech fan.

Edited by Zergling, 13 December 2016 - 06:43 PM.

[Pika]

Has the OP considered that they might just be good with a Summoner?

I haven't heard many people call this 'Mech OP. Good, but not OP.

[a gaijin]

Zergling, on 13 December 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Yeah, here's two builds for Hunchback IIC-A vs Summoner: 21 vs 24 double heat sinks (I usually sacrifice 4 heatsinks for a TarComp IV on my Summoner though).

With the Summoner having -10% heat generation quirk, that difference is much larger in practice; it is a much cooler running mech, while firing faster thanks to 5% ER PPC cooldown + 5% energy cooldown.


Lol

I don't own any Hunchback IIC, but I think I might make it my next mech to go for. Apart from my Summoners and finishing mastering my Black Widow this month, I've been playing Blackjacks. I think I'll finish mastering the BJ-2 and Arrow, then buy some Hunch IICs.

If I hadn't already spent around $300 AUD on MWO in the last 3 months, I'd buy the IIC pack instead... but eh, I can't justify to myself spending any more money on a single game (for at least another year), even if I am a diehard Battletech fan.

Summoner has a theoretical 0.53 more DPS. And like you said, we all adjust to taste on TC and/or DHS. It is on par with Hunchback IIC in my opinion.
Also, I don't think everyone will use the D left arm, though it is the accepted 'best choice' and most will.

Remember that I mentioned that experiment (mech performance comparison) a few posts back? Since you are considering trying out the HBK IIC, please tell me if you do do a comparison test. I am highly interested in the results.

[Fake News]

seriously? shove the nerf calls. you know where to put them.

[Zergling]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 December 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Summoner has a theoretical 0.53 more DPS. And like you said, we all adjust to taste on TC and/or DHS. It is on par with Hunchback IIC in my opinion.
Also, I don't think everyone will use the D left arm, though it is the accepted 'best choice' and most will.

Remember that I mentioned that experiment (mech performance comparison) a few posts back? Since you are considering trying out the HBK IIC, please tell me if you do do a comparison test. I am highly interested in the results.

The D arm used to have 5% energy cooldown, but it got nerfed, with the quirk swapped to 5% energy range. The Prime and M arms still have 5% ER PPC cooldown + 5% energy cooldown though.

As for HBK IICs, I've only got about 10 million cbills atm, so it'll be a while before I can buy three of those mechs and set them up with desired XL engines.
Don't know if I'll be able to do it before skill revamp, but I'll try.

[InspectorG]

yaay, on 12 December 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

the problem isn't the summoner, it's the erppc. It's a very, very easy weapon to use combined with a lot of heatsinks and a big TC.

And does a whopping 20 damage pinpoint...

Ultraviolent does 16 damage pinpoint...per second.

KDK-3 Has no offensive quirks and has no peer.

Spirit Bear tends to have @ an 80 alpha AND the agility to twist/get the F out.


I dont see how anyone thinks the 2Peep Summoner is OP. Its not. Its very good at one job - jumpsniping. And there is a reason all the newbs and potatoes arent jumpsniping.

If you can jumpsnipe well in a Summoner, you can go it in a Gyr or Timby with a TC.

And besides, PGI is removing most quirks for skills in the new skill tree.

[InspectorG]

Star Commander Horse, on 13 December 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:

Though I'm just a freeborn, tier 3 mechwarrior, I concur.
Just checked metamechs to find that the dual nipple Summoner is low tier 1, right next to the ER PPC Hunchback IIC/HBK-IIC-A.

I guess that could cause some jealousy(?) and/or distress(?) among some Hunchback IIC pilots...?


Summoner only has roughly 10 more points armor [per section] than Hunchback IIC (and about 20 more for CT) so it does make sense that it, being a heavy, should outclass it a little bit. I believe that's a reasonable margin.


edits typos/clarification

And HBK llC allows for more options regarding tonnage limits.

And the MWO Championship did have a team using Peep Summoners... but they were not the focus.

[Lightfoot]

Zergling, on 13 December 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

Isn't the Hunchback IIC-A with twin ER PPCs regarded as very strong/Tier 1 mech? And with loyalty hardpoints, the Summoner outclasses that mech by a fair margin.

The Summoner is a heavy mech, 20 tons more than the Hunchback. Tons cost your maximum dropweight so if you have a heavy that is no better than a 50 ton mech that is not a good balance. Maximum dropweight is not strictly bound in a PUG, you just match mech classes on both teams for expedience, but in any Faction Warfare or dropweight balanced match those extra 20 tons have to be worth more than a medium mech.

[Zergling]

InspectorG, on 13 December 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

I dont see how anyone thinks the 2Peep Summoner is OP. Its not. Its very good at one job - jumpsniping. And there is a reason all the newbs and potatoes arent jumpsniping.

I don't actually jumpsnipe much with mine; I mostly hill pokesnipe, using the jumpjets to get into optimal shooting positions.

[Ace Selin]

ebolachan, on 13 December 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

seriously? shove the nerf calls. you know where to put them.

On the summoner ?!!!


==============================

Summoner is OP, no ifs, buts or doubts about it.
Nerf the Summoner PGI.

Edited by Ace Selin, 13 December 2016 - 11:56 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Anyone who's calling the summoner overpowered is Gulstaff, Sorcerer of Light...

[RestosIII]

Dee Eight, on 14 December 2016 - 12:08 AM, said:

Anyone who's calling the summoner overpowered is Gulstaff, Sorcerer of Light...

Thank you so much for.reminding me.of this. Had to hunt down an old video because of.it.



Freelancer made everything better.

Edited by RestosIII, 14 December 2016 - 12:36 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Well.. about the Summoner..

Taking into account the fact that before the loyalty version's hardpoints NOBODY in their right mind played a Summoner, cose' it sucked donkey arse, I'd say it's not OP..

It's just "usable" now..

[Ace Selin]

Agreed with all the other people, the Summoner is stupidly OP.

[RestosIII]

Ace Selin, on 14 December 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:

Agreed with all the other people, the Summoner is stupidly OP.