140 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Viktor Drake, on 14 December 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

However in your case, they aren't your primary weapon, the ER PPCs are. You also have 3 UAC/5s so there is less of a chance of all 3 of them jammed at the same moment. Finally the jam duration is smaller on the UAC/5s.

Eh, I leaned heavily on the UACs for a lot of that damage, the ER PPCs were barred from use for heat purposes a lot. Either way, reports of UACs being "bad" or "unusable" have been exaggerated.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 December 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

The difference is that you can side poke which is what the KDK-3 can do and is the reason while the KDK-4 isn't as good, is still probably the second best Clan assault. As for the Boiler can't side poke because of that Gauss on the other side, and we don't know how the hitboxes will be (so it may not be able to spread damage as well).

I'm a little confused, the KDK-4 can right side poke better than the KDK-3 no? And the Marauder IIC-C would perform similarly to the KDK-4, right? Are you saying the MAD-IIC-C is the second best Clan assault? Sorry, just wanted to clarify your post, I was confused about some of the subjects.

You are right that the Boiler would be a bad side poker, I would have just thought that the extra speed and not having to carry two gauss in one torso might make it better for some situations.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 14 December 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

However in your case, they aren't your primary weapon, the ER PPCs are. You also have 3 UAC/5s so there is less of a chance of all 3 of them jammed at the same moment. Finally the jam duration is smaller on the UAC/5s.

Boated or as a backup/secondary weapon, UACs are ok. It is when they are your primary source of damage that they become a major liability especially if your only running just one of them. Also the problems I had that one match aren't something you will experience every match but the fact that it happens even 1 out of 4-5 matches is too much.

Look at it this way. How would you feel if you were giving a M16 told, "Here is your M16, now when it works your going to be able to engage the enemy effectively but about twice in every 30 round magazine your going to suffer a Jam and it is going to take you 10 seconds each time to clear it" Sorry but that weapon isn't even going to clear military trials before being rejected as defective and I sure as hell wouldn't want to bet my life on a gun that was going to jam on me every 15-20 rounds I fired.

The whole point of the jams is to limit output. The 10-class alone rips out a staggering 8 DPS when on double tap. That is a motherload. With just two, you have DPS enough to put anything other than quad UAC/5 or larger to shame, and that's a mere 20 tons versus 28/36 for the weapons alone. If they become reliable in small bundles, then they become extraordinarily powerful in massed bundles.

Really, the reworked jams means if you want to bring one or two, you are more poke oriented. You shouldn't be leading the commit, save that for the 'Mechs with more UACs for redundancy. Or use a heavy FLD build.

Also, another misguided analogy. This is a game. Being a soldier in a real war is not. That fact alters the equation radically.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 December 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

I'm a little confused, the KDK-4 can right side poke better than the KDK-3 no? And the Marauder IIC-C would perform similarly to the KDK-4, right? Are you saying the MAD-IIC-C is the second best Clan assault? Sorry, just wanted to clarify your post, I was confused about some of the subjects.

I meant the KDK-4 is the second best Clan assault, because the KDK-3 while not as good at side poking, can mount an XL. The Scorch and C are basically poor man's versions of both (KDK-3 and KDK-4 respectively).

[Omniseed]

Dahrsis, on 13 December 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

If you played the IS Marauder you know how to play this one. Same survivability (well + Clan XL). You just go and wiggle yourself through the incoming fire.

Btw. PPC in the high LT slot is huge...just really huge. Why?

Funtimidation

[Corrado]

FireStoat, on 13 December 2016 - 10:36 PM, said:

The speed of the 375XL makes it handle like an ebon jaguar with nothing unlocked. For an assault it's not horrible at all to run around in.

no. is not even close to the EBJ agility

[Snazzy Dragon]

Corrado, on 14 December 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

no. is not even close to the EBJ agility

It is with an XL 370 or greater. At that point the mobility stats are nearly identical except in top speed.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Snazzy Dragon, on 14 December 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

It is with an XL 370 or greater. At that point the mobility stats are nearly identical except in top speed.

Mobility is tied directly to speed, so no, it isn't.

That said, at 385+ it is closer to Ebjag agility than it is Night Gyr, so there is that.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 December 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[Tombs Clawtooth]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 December 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

The whole point of the jams is to limit output. The 10-class alone rips out a staggering 8 DPS when on double tap. That is a motherload. With just two, you have DPS enough to put anything other than quad UAC/5 or larger to shame, and that's a mere 20 tons versus 28/36 for the weapons alone. If they become reliable in small bundles, then they become extraordinarily powerful in massed bundles.

Really, the reworked jams means if you want to bring one or two, you are more poke oriented. You shouldn't be leading the commit, save that for the 'Mechs with more UACs for redundancy. Or use a heavy FLD build.

Also, another misguided analogy. This is a game. Being a soldier in a real war is not. That fact alters the equation radically.

UACs are for high face time, sustained DPS. If countered by laser vomit that's using cover and twisting, even pre-nerf, you would be shredded by laser vomit.

The nerf is ridiculous and demonstrates a failure to understand the role of the weapon system and inherent downsides to its use.

[Gas Guzzler]

Tombs Clawtooth, on 14 December 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

UACs are for high face time, sustained DPS. If countered by laser vomit that's using cover and twisting, even pre-nerf, you would be shredded by laser vomit.

The nerf is ridiculous and demonstrates a failure to understand the role of the weapon system and inherent downsides to its use.

Yeah, that's why laser vomit was (probably still is) in third place behind PPFLD (ER PPC/Gauss) and dakka (UACs), right?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 December 2016 - 12:31 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tombs Clawtooth, on 14 December 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

UACs are for high face time, sustained DPS. If countered by laser vomit that's using cover and twisting, even pre-nerf, you would be shredded by laser vomit.

The nerf is ridiculous and demonstrates a failure to understand the role of the weapon system and inherent downsides to its use.

Incorrect.

The standard AC is for sustained DPS. The Ultra allows you to pay some tonnage or slots to gain the ability to surge that DPS, with the jam serving to prevent you from surging it indefinitely and thus completely obsoleting non-Ultra ACs. They are really meant for short-term damage, more of a poke, really. Even the Dakka Bear and Warhammer are usually providing heavy fire only for a brief interval.

What really breaks the system right now is that cACs and standard isACs have a rate of fire identical to the base on their equivalent Ultras, so it becomes a no-brainer to just pay the extra ton / slot (or, if Clan, actually gain a slot and pay no tons) to have the ability to surge when you need it. If those non-Ultra ACs had a higher base rate of fire, you would have to consider how much you really need that surge capability.

Long-term sustained, double-tap DPS is exactly the opposite of what Ultras are for.

[Tombs Clawtooth]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 December 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yeah, that's why laser vomit was (probably still is) in third place behind PPFLD (ER PPC/Gauss) and dakka (UACs), right?

Until the KDK-3 I never saw that many people running UACs. I saw mostly what I still see everywhere today. Primarily 2 LPL with 4 medium lasers, or a gauss and 2 PPCs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Tombs Clawtooth, on 14 December 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Until the KDK-3 I never saw that many people running UACs. I saw mostly what I still see everywhere today. Primarily 2 LPL with 4 medium lasers, or a gauss and 2 PPCs.

I don't care what you saw. Before the Kodiak, the best assault was the Mauler (UAC5/AC5), the best heavies were Warhammers (2 PPC UAC5, 2 UAC5 2 AC5), Timber (2 ER PPC Gauss), with a shoutout to the Grasshopper for ERLL duty. You did see more laser vomit at that point in the medium class, because mediums couldn't effectively do dakka.

Laser vomit does still work in the public queue. Instead of nerfing it into oblivion, PGI had it balanced such that it still worked but was suboptimal, so players continued to use it in QP because it wasn't obviously inferior.

[Dex Spero]

So much fun so far! The ballistic hardpoints on the D and Scorch are in the arms, so at first I didn't like it because it was too low. I preferred the torso mounts like on the A and C (better protected and great for peaking). But after a few games I've realized having the ballistics in the arms allows you to mount some pretty nasty weapons since the XL engine isn't taking up any slots in the arms. I've never really liked Gauss rifles but Duo Gauss in unlocked arms is sheer joy so now I'm hooked.

I'm running 2xGauss and 2xSSRM6 on the D. Originally I had 2xML as well but once I figured out how to shoot short range targets with the Gauss the lasers never got fired. I swapped them for ammo but now all my weapons are in the arms so I will swap them back in if I find myself in stickmode.

[Lupis Volk]

Well Smurfy has the marauder 2c now. Anyone got builds?

[Jackal Noble]

Oh hey its a thread about how the MarauderIIC performs.(Not, now I'm going to explain the fundamentals of the game like I do on every thread, because I'm the expert- according to me)

I am honestly, pleasantly surprised by this chassis, it's hitboxes and the wide band of engine sizes it can utilize an not be a total slug. The new heatsink characteristics are actually working out well for the MADIIC as it is able to boat .....heat sinks.

Naturally experimented across the variants, but there are still 2 or 3 that I haven't even graced. That said, it has been fun just trying to come up with how to run these things.

I turned the -8 into a std325 zombie (1 e point ct) with 3 erppcs and that was fine and well and had good enough results, but before long i was trying to see the best speed to heat efficiency ratio and ended up with 1.44 on a 390XL with a tcIII and 499 armor.

The triple ballistic chassis (A) is currently carrying 3 uac10s (just because) but also ran trip uac5s with med pulse x 4 and a std340 to good effect.

On the -C variant I currently have an xl400, 1 lbx20, 5 med pulse, 4 jjs and heatsinks. Before I had it decked out with 2 UAC10s, 1 LPL, 3 MPL and the 340XL it came with.

Edited by JackalBeast, 14 December 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[Corrado]

Lupis Volk, on 14 December 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

Well Smurfy has the marauder 2c now. Anyone got builds?

my actual scorch

SCORCH 2Gauss2ERPPC 325

my actual IIC

MAD-IIC(S) 1CLPL+6CERML 375 32DHS (to try the new DHS heatcap, works wonders)

scorch shotgun variant

SCORCH shotgun

the A

MAD-IIC-A Midrange Suppress

ECM sniper

MAD-IIC-D 2Gauss ERPPC TC5 340

Edited by Corrado, 14 December 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 December 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

The whole point of the jams is to limit output. The 10-class alone rips out a staggering 8 DPS when on double tap. That is a motherload. With just two, you have DPS enough to put anything other than quad UAC/5 or larger to shame, and that's a mere 20 tons versus 28/36 for the weapons alone. If they become reliable in small bundles, then they become extraordinarily powerful in massed bundles.

Really, the reworked jams means if you want to bring one or two, you are more poke oriented. You shouldn't be leading the commit, save that for the 'Mechs with more UACs for redundancy. Or use a heavy FLD build.

Also, another misguided analogy. This is a game. Being a soldier in a real war is not. That fact alters the equation radically.

You know I am not arguing output, I am arguing reliability because it doesn't matter if they do 1 DPS or 1000 DPS when they are jammed up and not firing becasue at that point they are ZERO DPS. I personally would prefer a reduction to the overall potential DPS than the gun jamming one time every 5 times I fire it and not being able to use that gun for something like 10-15 seconds (when you count the cooldown you have to go through after the jam completes). Maybe add a delay on the second burst or something or basically anything but such an important weapon being rendered unusable for such extended periods of time and with such frequency.

Also you say you shouldn't be leading the commit if your only mounting 1 or 2 UACs well that is fine but what can I mount in their place? Gauss which aren't brawling weapons and weight more or the LB-10X which in its own way is just about as unreliable as the UAC/10 and is only really useful out to about 300m max. Clans get shafted big time by not having a solid slug option for their Ballistic choice.

But we are drifting off topic so I will bring it back on topic.

If your piloting a MAD-IIC, do yourself a favor and make sure your have a significant amount of non-UAC firepower available if your going to run UACs and I will leave it at that.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok on to how to the Marauder IIC performs.

Overall I really like it. It tanks well, has very good speed for an Assault, is fairly agile and can mount a very decent amount of firepower and generally cool it fairly well if you build things out correctly. Also the individual variants allow for a truly massive amount of customization and I think a person would be hard pressed to not be able to find at least one variant that they like and enjoy. In fact I bought all 7 for the first time ever and I can't pick a favorite and all have a different build.

On the negative side they do have quite a few minor flaws. The torso has a very limited range of motion and this makes the mech very vulnerable to light mechs camping on your rear quarters. You basically don't have enough turn speed and arc to keep up with them. Also while the Sean Lang said the hardpoints were High to Mid the reality is they are High to Low. The arm mounted weaponry which can account for a significant amount of your firepower are low firing and will plant many shots into the ground even when you think you should be clear to fire. As far a high mounts, those are usually limited to just 1 which while useful, isn't going to make you very good at hill humping. Also you have to consider that the design of the mech means that mid mounts inline with the cockpit are actually pretty close to waste level.

One odd thing to note is that you can make a good case to actually mount a standard engine in these Clan mechs. While the XL is nice and give you a speed boost you can easily mount the Standard 340 engine that comes with most variants and still pack in the same levels of firepower and cooling you would be able to if you up-engined to a 375-400XL. This means you could get a tweaked speed of around 69 kph (the same speed as a Kodiak or Night Gyr) and not have to worry about the speed and heat dissipation reduction you would have with the loss of a XL equiped side torso. Also at least two MAD-IIC variants have either CT or head mounts so you could even zombie with one.

Overall I find the mech to be a good balance of positive and negative traits which hopefully means it will avoid the traditional C-bill release nerfs. The lack of quirks is also probably a good thing in this regard. As long as the mech stays the way it is now, it will probably be one of my favorite mechs.

[Mawai]

Trollfeed, on 13 December 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

I too don't use lurms usually, but I implore you to try them with Mad-IIC-B. My build for it is XL400, 5xCERML, 2xALRM15 with 5 tons of ammo, 20 heatsinks and full jumpjets. It might seem lacklustre but it really isn't when you play it as a cavalry mech.

The combination of speed, big lurms and respectable enough direct firepower lends it capability to help friendlies in time when they have strayed a just a little bit too far from team.

If you go for 4MPL + TAG ... you have pretty much my IS build for the matching MAD and it does quite well. If you want to use the LRMs from just behind the assaults in a direct fire role (it does wonders at suppressing opponents) then the TAG is a must.