104 replies to this topic

[-Rasalom-]

So we are all driving around (piloting) advanced weapon systems called mechs... and these mechs have all types of weapons and computer systems to run them and said weapons.... and yet, for some reason, we can't program them to target a specific section on a mech with computerized accuracy?

How does this make any sense?

Edit: to be clear... I am in favor of in game aim bots because computers can aim better then we can, and we are driving around in giant weaponized computers. I'm not talking about snap head shot aimbots.. but let's put more pilot skill into driving these things, and less into turn torso and strafe.... you as a pilot should be able to navigate your mech (looking sideways), and have your mech keep firing while locked on...

Edited by Sal Roma, 14 December 2016 - 12:50 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

So what you're saying is you're bad at aiming in this game and need something to do it for you?

[RestosIII]

[Bud Crue]

If we could auto target specific components then each match would be who can click 12 times...for 12 head shots the fastest. So each match would last what, maybe 30 seconds to a minute (Assuming finding the enemy, and cool down between shots, etc.). That doesn't sound fun.

[Tristan Winter]

Sal Roma, on 14 December 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

So we are all driving around (piloting) advanced weapon systems called mechs... and these mechs have all types of weapons and computer systems to run them and said weapons.... and yet, for some reason, we can't program them to target a specific section on a mech with computerized accuracy?

How does this make any sense?

It makes sense in terms of making a game that we can actually play. Because realistically, if you can make mechs that can move around and shoot without direct human manipulation, you don't really need anyone sitting in the cockpit. You could just have AI-controlled robots fighting each other, and turn it into a MechCommander game.

The whole idea behind Battletech is that people don't trust machines to work independently of humans (same as the Warhammer 40,000 universe and several other popular sci-fi universes), so the abilities of the mechs are rather restricted. Mechs can do certain things on their own, but they require human pilots, to prevent robots from destroying all humans, basically.

[Odession]

I suspect he means in-game aim assist for weapons or target area highlighting, something along those lines, which wouldn't be that unreasonable. Once you play for any length of time, you dont have that problem (except maybe light vs light skirmishing).

Sal Roma, the really short version is; it's not in the Mechwarrior universe lore. The only locking weapons developed were the LRMs and Streak-type missiles. Have a browse over Sarna.net for the MWverse background stuff if you want to hunt for it yourself, a lot of good (and a lot of dry) reading.

EDIT: As for developing one, the factions don't even recall how to make a mech from scratch at all, only on rare occasions able to make the production lines for them - for the most part they fight for the lines. It's called LosTech for a reason. ;D

Edited by Odession, 14 December 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[Mole]

Real life computers like this are basically why a fight between something like a Russian T-14 and an M1 Abrams would basically boil down to who spotted the other one first and made the first shot.

Edited by Mole, 14 December 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[naterist]

Sal Roma, on 14 December 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

So we are all driving around (piloting) advanced weapon systems called mechs... and these mechs have all types of weapons and computer systems to run them and said weapons.... and yet, for some reason, we can't program them to target a specific section on a mech with computerized accuracy?

How does this make any sense?

even though they have all this equipment, no one in universe knows how to make it, since they kinda bombed themselves into the 21-22 century technology during the previous 500 years of war. the Inner Sphere is just barely Learning how to make new battlemechs again.

[RestosIII]

naterist, on 14 December 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

even though they have all this equipment, no one in universe knows how to make it, since they kinda bombed themselves into the 21-22 century technology during the previous 500 years of war. the Inner Sphere is just barely Learning how to make new battlemechs again.

I mean, they didn't even have the internet in the Inner Sphere until the Clans showed up. CDS making the ChatterWeb is one of the greatest accomplishments of our time.

[Commander A9]

Well, tabletop lets you take a specific aimed shot if you have a targeting computer.

But not here.

Now, it's up to your keen eyes and sense of fire control.

[Hal Greaves]

aaaawwwwwsshheeeeiiii

here we go again

[RestosIII]

Hal Greaves, on 14 December 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

aaaawwwwwsshheeeeiiii

here we go again

Posting the same gif repeatedly with no visual context as to how it's fitting for the situation is what gives us gif connoisseurs a bad name. Stop it.

[-Rasalom-]

Hey, thanks for all the replies... for the lore, I guess I can understand not wanting to hand over control of a mech to a computer, but computer assisted aiming just seems like a no brainer given the complexity of the weapon systems (from a lore perspective).

As for them not wanting it in the game due to game play reasons... I think it would add more options for counter measures to the game if it was included. Ghost tech/ stealth (from enemy targeting computers)/ scrambling/ etc... from a game play perspective, it would give them more options if every mech had a basic targeting computer, and you would be able to enhance yours or protect yourself from your enemies.

Snazzy Dragon, on 14 December 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

So what you're saying is you're bad at aiming in this game and need something to do it for you?

Where did I say that? My aim is fine, and it will get better... but you will always be a jerk.

[Mole]

You know lack of serious targeting computers has been explained time and time again in BT lore as the fact that the Inner Sphere has bombed themselves back to a WWII level of technological understanding.

About this time in BT lore is when the IS is just starting to recover a lot of its lostech and just finally starting to remember how to make their own battlemechs that are not just built by automated factories that build the 'mechs automatically. If you dig even a little bit into battletech lore the IS was constantly fighting for control over these factories because it was the only way to refresh their numbers of lost battlemechs. If a factory or production line was destroyed it was a major blow to everyone involved because nobody knew how to rebuild it and the design that that factory produced was now lost for centuries until much later in the lore when such tech was rediscovered.

There were many 'mech and vehicle designs that went extinct in the Inner Sphere during this time because their factories got destroyed and then later in time began being produced again as lostech was rediscovered and new factories were able to be built or existing factories were able to be re-purposed to produce a design that had been lost.

[-Rasalom-]

Mole, on 14 December 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

You know lack of serious targeting computers has been explained time and time again in BT lore as the fact that the Inner Sphere has bombed themselves back to a WWII level of technological understanding.

If I knew that, I wouldn't have asked the question. And that's the lore reason.. but someone must have half a brain building these things and it would be EASY for some designer to go..."Why not let the machine aim for us?" Lore problem solved.

[jss78]

Eh well, really it's just that BT was conceived in the 1980s. Basically they could anticipate walking tanks, laser/particle beams, and fusion reactors -- but the miniaturization of computer hardware caught everyone by surprise. So our computer hardware are huge and they don't do very much.

Then you just had the game design constraints. You want the scale to be such that the 'mechs can walk a few hexes per turn, but if you had "realistic" ranges and targetting ability, then the game board would have to be the size of a tennis court.

I for one cherish the 80s heritage of BattleTech, with badass giant robots, packing 7-ton targetting computers -- but still unable to hit the broad side of a barn. Piloted by people who look like this:

[Amsro]

Why play when you can bot it up.

[Andi Nagasia]

so just to be clean OP is not Talking about Aim Bots, but suggesting MWO gain an in Game Auto Aim?

um im sure this would help people when it comes to aiming but also it may hurt some actions,
you aim to get a head shot, Computer Corrects so you hit CT instead, with that im saying no,
this would take skill out of the game and open up a seemingly larger can of worms,

also yes BattleMechs have Computers that can target somewhat,
but they are not (Super Computers) these Advanced weapons of war we call Mechs are well Very Old,
so not all the systems may work properly, or at all for that matter, which is why in TT you have Pilot Checks,
many Mechs are over +500years old and a held together with: Blood, Sweat, Tears, Glue, Tape, Ect,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 14 December 2016 - 01:16 PM.

[nehebkau]

@OP.

Because it wouldn't be any fun?

[Mole]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 December 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

so just to be clean OP is not Talking about Aim Bots, but suggesting MWO gain an in Game Auto Aim?

Yes.

Also I would argue that our 'mech being able to achieve perfect weapon convergence at whatever object the crosshair happens to be aiming at is some kind of advanced computer targeting.