38 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

Ok, I'll take the opposite opinion from the conventional wisdom.

I think an AMS is worth bringing in anything 60 tons or greater and without ECM. Don't sacrifice armor or ECM for it, but I would definitely ton down an engine or remove a DHS for one.

People overestimate how good they are at dodging missiles and underestimate how much damage they often take from missiles over the course of a match. Taking down 2-3 damage in missiles per volley may not sound sexy, but over the course of the game these numbers can very easily add up to 20+. And it's got AoE to help your teammates.

[Zolaz]

AMS is one of the few pieces of equipment that helps you deal with Team Potato.

[Snazzy Dragon]

AMS isn't worth it for you personally if you have half a brain and know how to break locks/use cover/have radar derp but I have found that having one or two in solo queue quick play can save your potato teammates and that can be the difference between them doing 50 damage and 150.

[Acehilator]

AMS worth increases the more of it you bring. If 95% of all players would equip it, there would not be a single LRM whine thread on the forums. But no, the one additional heatsink is going to make aaaaaaaaall the difference. Why build team-friendly in a team-based game? Inconceivable!

And do not kid yourself about higher tiers and less LRMs. That is flat out not happening.

[El Bandito]

Obligatory: http://mwomercs.com/...-psa-equip-ams/

Tristan Winter, on 16 December 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

It would be possible to make AMS more effective against SRMs and SSRMs without nerfing LRMs, by regulating AMS damage vs the health of each missile type. This is a simple fix, another .xml edit.

Simpler way to do it is to reduce SRM/SSRM health.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 December 2016 - 07:21 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

El Bandito, on 17 December 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Simpler way to do it is to reduce SRM/SSRM health.

That's what I meant. My point is that there are several variables that can be adjusted.

[Metus regem]

AMS is one of those things, that depending on how you look at can be useful. I see it as active damage reduction against missile weapons, that being said I do try to spend at least 1t on it most of the time, that's the AMS unit with .5t ammo at a minimum.

[Galenit]

Metus regem, on 17 December 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

AMS is one of those things, that depending on how you look at can be useful. I see it as active damage reduction against missile weapons, that being said I do try to spend at least 1t on it most of the time, that's the AMS unit with .5t ammo at a minimum.

Dont miss that it can kill narc-missiles!

Its one of the few teamutility items we have ...

As mentioned before to balance lrms: Increase lrm damage and speed every patch by 10% until at least 50% of all mechs in all matches mount at least a single ams.

[Uncle Stickyfinger]

I really love this build for solo QP. I go hard on it tho- since I can't boat 3 AMS I actually run the AMS modules, overload and range both. I have a tanky lil support mech with a zombie build, a brisk 94 kph max speed, and a cool as a cucumber 1.54 heat efficiency. With the ML range module I do the full 30 damage at 320m and can alpha for days.

Is it comp-viable? Oh god no. 30pt alpha strike is a joke compared to what lurks out there. But ol' Rangoon is a great fatty escort and when I get that Dire Wolf to the front across open ground I can lead the charge as well as any heavy because I have max armor. For team utility I think it's awesome and utterly neutering clan lrms is priceless. The C-Bill bonus also makes me less salty about not getting decent AMS rewards too

[Sorbic]

Unless you're playing with a pre-made team that will stick to area's with ample coverage then AMS is often worth it. I guarantee I and/or others have dropped plenty of LRMs on the QP folks who exclaim that cover is all that's needed. The only ones that are even semi difficult to hit are those who spend most of the time hiding and letting team mates make the moves. And of course the biggest bonus is helping your team mates who do let them selves get focused for too long.

That said there are often dry spells with fairly few LRMs so I don't stress about squeezing the system in. Of course events to tend to bring out more LRMs so that's when I play my KF the most and mitigate a ton of damage for the team.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Tbh I kinda wanna get a Kitfox for the sake of owning 3AMS + ECM build
How it feels like to have AMS

[Jman5]

Tristan Winter, on 16 December 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

It would be possible to make AMS more effective against SRMs and SSRMs without nerfing LRMs, by regulating AMS damage vs the health of each missile type. This is a simple fix, another .xml edit.

It's important to keep in mind that SRMs and SSRMs do 2 damage per missile while LRMs do 1. So even if your AMS is only shooting down half as many SRMs as LRMs they're still mitigating the same amount of damage.

[jss78]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 17 December 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Tbh I kinda wanna get a Kitfox for the sake of owning 3AMS + ECM build

The ECM+3xAMS Kit Fox is an amazing 'mech for ~low to mid tier pug queue. I have it on my Tier 3 clanner alt, and it maintains a fairly ludicrous W/L of 1.82. I haven't managed that even with my best damage dealer 'mechs, so whatever that 'mech does it works.

I run 3xERML and 4xMG for weapons, I imagine it's even better after the MG buffs.

[Kaeb Odellas]

AMS would be more useful if they had a function beyond "shoot down missile"

For instance, AMS could be used an early detection system against missiles. Right now, you get the missile warning pretty much the moment the missiles leave the launchers. What if missile detection worked the same as mech detection? What if you only got the warning once the missiles were in range, and only if you were facing them? LRMs would suddenly be harder to avoid, which is good for LRMs since right now they're entirely too easy to avoid.

Now what if AMS gave you 360 degree detection at full LRM range, and also gave you a HUD indicator telling you which way they're coming from, and how many are incoming from that direction? Then AMS would be extremely useful.

[Tristan Winter]

Jman5, on 17 December 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

It's important to keep in mind that SRMs and SSRMs do 2 damage per missile while LRMs do 1. So even if your AMS is only shooting down half as many SRMs as LRMs they're still mitigating the same amount of damage.

Fair point, but the actual numbers involved in balancing AMS are not so interesting because (1) PGI would have to do the proper calculations anyway and (2) hell will exist and freeze over before PGI actually does anything to balance AMS.

But I would say that AMS are lightyears away from being a worthwhile choice for light mechs and medium mechs to survive SRM and SSRM attacks.

[Sorbic]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 December 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

AMS would be more useful if they had a function beyond "shoot down missile"

For instance, AMS could be used an early detection system against missiles. Right now, you get the missile warning pretty much the moment the missiles leave the launchers. What if missile detection worked the same as mech detection? What if you only got the warning once the missiles were in range, and only if you were facing them? LRMs would suddenly be harder to avoid, which is good for LRMs since right now they're entirely too easy to avoid.

Now what if AMS gave you 360 degree detection at full LRM range, and also gave you a HUD indicator telling you which way they're coming from, and how many are incoming from that direction? Then AMS would be extremely useful.

Something along those lines could be a neat idea. Although I don't think a delay without AMS is the best answer (unless it's very small/or they address the current random delay) as the warning is often already delayed just due to game mechanics. I mean I can't tell you how often I'll see the missiles half way to me before the warning goes off.

[RestosIII]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 17 December 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Tbh I kinda wanna get a Kitfox for the sake of owning 3AMS + ECM build
How it feels like to have AMS

Running 3 AMS+ECM Cute Fox is incredibly fun, but due to my own rules of lore builds, it's basically a death sentence. Having only MGs and a single cERLLas as your weapon is asking to die horribly.

[Jman5]

Tristan Winter, on 17 December 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

Fair point, but the actual numbers involved in balancing AMS are not so interesting because (1) PGI would have to do the proper calculations anyway and (2) hell will exist and freeze over before PGI actually does anything to balance AMS.

But I would say that AMS are lightyears away from being a worthwhile choice for light mechs and medium mechs to survive SRM and SSRM attacks.

In Quickplay and Invasion I agree. My one little caveat is that I think AMS is worth it for mediums/lights in Scouting mode if you fight for Inner sphere because of how frequently you fight Clan Streak SRMs.

[HauptmanT]

I swear, it's like we are all playing a different game...

Oh wait we are... I play T4 Solo Queue... you dont.

AMS is a must have in the game I play. Every mech build must have either ECM or AMS. You people and your "If I can only bring one, I dont bring any" people... Jeesh. If you bring one, and the guy to your right brought one, and the guy to your left brought one... guess what, now you have 3. Like a free Kitfox (well ok 3 ton Kitfox).

Seriously, drop one heat sink, use that weight and space for an AMS and live longer. It's that simple.

Because I'm almost T3 now... should be by the end of the weekend. And I'm bringing the Rain. Getting darn good with making those LRMs work as SRMs that shoot over stuff. LRMs double my average damage. So I'm going to keep using them.

Edited by HauptmanT, 17 December 2016 - 12:04 PM.