77 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

When the new Faction play patch dropped i cheered ! Then we got stomped. The tonnage was increased by 15 and i cheered again. Then we got stomped. Clan tonnage was decreased and i said wtf. We got stomped even harder.

There is NO fun in being Out Ranged/Out Maneuvered/ Out Damage. I congratulate the clan players, tonnage was taken away and they just got smaller more agile mechs that carry more fire power than an Inner sphere heavy with better range. They stay at a distance that we cant touch and they pick us apart. You guys use your advantages very effectively. Unfortunately this will mean that the Inner Sphere population will stop playing because it simply feels like shooting fish in a barrel and we are the fish.

[El Bandito]

I joined the Clans as a merc today and lost my first match. Not because the IS side had better pilots or mechs, oh no. We were beating them up so badly that the score was 20-6 at mid-game, in our favor. We lost because for some reason the 5-man team from 228 didn't do jack to coordinate the rest of the team, and comms were dead silent all around. I was amazed at a guy from 228 who didn't switch his mech when he was at 32% health. The enemy won by destroying the generators.

Gonna have to call the drop myself next time.

[jjm1]

I played my first FW skirmish today. Alpine. Torn apart by IS snipers that just stood on the hills belting out quirked large lasers.

I'm not going to load up 4 clan mechs with large lasers and play the most boring sniping game ever invented. So its back to the QP pile where the pain of a bad match ends faster.

[QuantumButler]

Racerxintegra2k, on 18 December 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

When the new Faction play patch dropped i cheered ! Then we got stomped. The tonnage was increased by 15 and i cheered again. Then we got stomped. Clan tonnage was decreased and i said wtf. We got stomped even harder.

There is NO fun in being Out Ranged/Out Maneuvered/ Out Damage. I congratulate the clan players, tonnage was taken away and they just got smaller more agile mechs that carry more fire power than an Inner sphere heavy with better range. They stay at a distance that we cant touch and they pick us apart. You guys use your advantages very effectively. Unfortunately this will mean that the Inner Sphere population will stop playing because it simply feels like shooting fish in a barrel and we are the fish.

Learn to adapt and overcome bro =)

jjm1, on 18 December 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

I played my first FW skirmish today. Alpine. Torn apart by IS snipers that just stood on the hills belting out quirked large lasers.

I'm not going to load up 4 clan mechs with large lasers and play the most boring sniping game ever invented. So its back to the QP pile where the pain of a bad match ends faster.

Clan ERLLs are trash, use ERppcs instead, then you can actually out trade IS blue skill beams because you need much less face time.

[Felbombling]

I've long thought they should make the weapon ranges identical between Clan and Inner Sphere if there is an equivalent weapon to match it against. The Clans already get tonnage and critical location savings, no need to compound the difference with range advantages, as well. Sure, I know current weapon ranges are lore based, but c'mon... enough already with this stupid imbalance.

[Barantor]

The invasion game modes seem to be the ones where people have the most problems and bring the most frustration. I've often thought that they needed a change as it is just a bottleneck fight for the most part. Not really a very endearing game mode IMO.

Add in no coordination because folks are used to not doing it in QP and you end up with a lot of stomps if one team does and the other doesn't. Also no MM means such a weird array of mechs and builds that a lot of it is even more about luck of team than QP.

[Johnny Z]

The ERLL is better than the CERLL I think. One of the advantages Inner Sphere has. Its only for extreme range though and not very good at all closer, use the LL for anything like that.

I have a Raven 4X with 2 ERLL does extremely well at the poke game. Extremely. Highly recommended to have 1 in a starter drop deck. It will out poke anything the Clans have with practice, nearly untouchable unless they get close and Faction play lends itself to this kind of play.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 December 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Antares102]

Racerxintegra2k, on 18 December 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

When the new Faction play patch dropped i cheered ! Then we got stomped. The tonnage was increased by 15 and i cheered again. Then we got stomped. Clan tonnage was decreased and i said wtf. We got stomped even harder.

There is NO fun in being Out Ranged/Out Maneuvered/ Out Damage. I congratulate the clan players, tonnage was taken away and they just got smaller more agile mechs that carry more fire power than an Inner sphere heavy with better range. They stay at a distance that we cant touch and they pick us apart. You guys use your advantages very effectively. Unfortunately this will mean that the Inner Sphere population will stop playing because it simply feels like shooting fish in a barrel and we are the fish.

Dont bring LRM
Who stomped you?
A 12 man team?
A small competitive team?
If its either you have to bring effecient mechs yourself.
No LRM will no longer do, you have to bring meta build and know how to use them.

Stop blaming everything on the good damn clan tech.

[FupDup]

It's almost as if tonnage limits are a bandaid that don't fix underlying problems.

[Freeman 52]

Antares102, on 18 December 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Dont bring LRM

I have actually seen a lot of LRM from clanners on the QP maps of faction play. Used effectively because these are coordinated groups, I may add.

OP: Don't drop alone. Group-on-group is actually very balanced. I say this as a solo loyalist.

[Tordin]

There should be a limit on how many Merc units that can join either side. Or else there will be that one side get all the comp teams while the other just pugs, on the mercy of the Merc units desicion.

[Novakaine]

I predicted 90 days and FW would go Tango Union.
Make that 30 days.

[Jon Gotham]

Racerxintegra2k, on 18 December 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

When the new Faction play patch dropped i cheered ! Then we got stomped. The tonnage was increased by 15 and i cheered again. Then we got stomped. Clan tonnage was decreased and i said wtf. We got stomped even harder.

There is NO fun in being Out Ranged/Out Maneuvered/ Out Damage. I congratulate the clan players, tonnage was taken away and they just got smaller more agile mechs that carry more fire power than an Inner sphere heavy with better range. They stay at a distance that we cant touch and they pick us apart. You guys use your advantages very effectively. Unfortunately this will mean that the Inner Sphere population will stop playing because it simply feels like shooting fish in a barrel and we are the fish.

Clan weapons have longer burn times. This longer burn time leads to spread damage. This spread damage is worsened the further away the target is.
How are you getting killed at that kind of range? Many IS mechs are quirked out of their rears for range AND beam duration....

Edited by Jon Gotham, 18 December 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 18 December 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

I joined the Clans as a merc today and lost my first match. Not because the IS side had better pilots or mechs, oh no. We were beating them up so badly that the score was 20-6 at mid-game, in our favor. We lost because for some reason the 5-man team from 228 didn't do jack to coordinate the rest of the team, and comms were dead silent all around. I was amazed at a guy from 228 who didn't switch his mech when he was at 32% health. The enemy won by destroying the generators.

Gonna have to call the drop myself next time.

Oh yeah, I was with you in that match.

The IS side coordinated well actually if you were really looking at what was going on, perfectly in fact. Each wave they ran in and barely even fired at us at all, they used their tonnage advantage to tank their way to the gens and damage them each wave. On the last wave, after they had nearly destroyed the last gen, they sent in lights through one gate to distract half the team then rushed through the center gate (sulfurous rift for people who weren't there) and used the last of their heavies to take out omega quickly.

Our overconfidence and expectation that everyone else already knew what was going on led us to a loss that round. We were outplayed and the IS team kept their poker face up the whole time.

Edited by Dakota1000, 18 December 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[Gadsden Labe]

El Bandito, on 18 December 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

I joined the Clans as a merc today and lost my first match. Not because the IS side had better pilots or mechs, oh no. We were beating them up so badly that the score was 20-6 at mid-game, in our favor. We lost because for some reason the 5-man team from 228 didn't do jack to coordinate the rest of the team, and comms were dead silent all around. I was amazed at a guy from 228 who didn't switch his mech when he was at 32% health. The enemy won by destroying the generators.

Gonna have to call the drop myself next time.

Barantor, on 18 December 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Add in no coordination because folks are used to not doing it in QP and you end up with a lot of stomps if one team does and the other doesn't.

Pretty new to FW and I am really excited to get into it after the new patch. I do like it a lot and being IS I get face stomped. However, I'm not all that upset about the Clan Mech advantages, I think that IS just needs to play smarter.

Playing smarter is something I feel that established units, teams, groups should be facilitating.
But I constantly see units out there doing "jack" to coordinate the rest of the team; just silent comms from them.
This just doesn't make any sense to me.
Isn't the purpose of a unit to coordinate individuals?

I'm sure that many units have their own TS servers and use them, and that's fine. But, I feel that if you are in a match playing along side others that aren't in your TS server, then you are doing yourself and everyone else in the match a disservice by not coordinating and sharing your knowledge with everyone.

I would really like to see units out there step up, take the reins and provide coordination to everyone in the match.
I think this would go a long way to helping IS win a few more matches.

[Tarogato]

Jon Gotham, on 18 December 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Clan weapons have longer burn times. This longer burn time leads to spread damage. This spread damage is worsened the further away the target is.
How are you getting killed at that kind of range? Many IS mechs are quirked out of their rears for range AND beam duration....

Clan LPLs have usually a burn time of 1.12 seconds.
Innersphere usually has to dodge ghost heat, which adds at least 0.5 seconds to their 1.0 second duration.
Innersphere does get a range quirk yes, generally only 10%, but that just means IS is better than Clan only outside of cERML range, which is something like 700m. That means that inside 700m, clan alpha's actually hit harder, unless the Innersphere boats large pulse and medium laser, which has a very limited range and runs nearly as hot as clan laservomit.

But clans have the option of running gauss/PPC, which though slightly lower alpha damage, doesn't have a burn duration, and has superior range to everything else other then ER larges.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Jon Gotham, on 18 December 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Clan weapons have longer burn times. This longer burn time leads to spread damage. This spread damage is worsened the further away the target is.
How are you getting killed at that kind of range? Many IS mechs are quirked out of their rears for range AND beam duration....

Not to mention that your average Clan mech has to mount 10-15% more DHS to cool those "Superior" Clan weapons due to them being Superiorly hot. I did a big comparison the other night and for the same damage output, the Clan mech had to mount 3 additional DHS to be able to achieve the same heat management. That is 3 tons and 6 critical slots wasted just to match the IS mechs heat efficiency before quirks. Same loadout with a -10% to Energy Heat generation quirk and it would have taken 4-5 extra DHS for the Clan match up with the IS mech in terms of heat efficiency which would mean 4-5 tons and 8-10 critical slots wasted. So much for the Clan advantages in terms their weapons being lighter and using less critical slots because the Clan needs all the extra critical slots and tonnage it can get so it can mount enough DHS to be competitive to IS mechs in terms of heat management.

I also looked at one of my Crabs using ER LLs. It gets quirked for it so each ER LL only generates 6.8 heat after the quirks. That happens to be just slightly hotter than a cER ML. Also the Clan ER LL comparatively generates near 150% of the heat.

Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of Clan Weapons also require significantly more "face time" with the enemy to do full damage which means your average clan mech ends up taking significantly more damage than an IS counterpart would.

Basically there are lots and lots of things that IS purists either don't think about or choose not to consider when they talk about IS vs Clan balance and it really annoys me to no end.

I will however willing admit that something needs to be done about the IS vs Clan XL engine situation. No matter how anyone wants to look at it, IS mechs tend to be at a disadvantage because of the vulnerabilities of mounting an XL. I have a few ideas how this could be fixed and even posted about it but until this gets addressed yes an issue exists. Not sure what they can do or if they are going to do something but I fully support a change as long as that change takes the form of a Buff to IS XL engines and not a nerf to Clan XL engines. I own about a 50/50 mix of IS/Clan mechs and while I want my IS mechs to preform better, I sure the hell don't want it to be at the expense of the other half of my stable and quite frankly investment since I have a ton of real dollars tied up in my collections.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Antares102, on 18 December 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Dont bring LRM
Who stomped you?
A 12 man team?
A small competitive team?
If its either you have to bring effecient mechs yourself.
No LRM will no longer do, you have to bring meta build and know how to use them.

Stop blaming everything on the good damn clan tech.

I appreciate the advice, but I'm not that much of a novice. My drop deck consists of Meta Laser vom Warhammer,Grasshopper,Thunderbolt and Rifleman. I regularly do 1500+ damage blah blah blah. What got me to write this post was a match on Tourmaline this morning. Wide open lanes of fire, enemy dug in to a good position and my LL's couldn't even touch them. Mean while our team was getting picked apart on the way to them. By the time we arrived we were so beat up a stiff breeze could have finished us off. Ebon Jag Laser Vomit builds felt like there were scores of them.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Racerxintegra2k, on 18 December 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

I appreciate the advice, but I'm not that much of a novice. My drop deck consists of Meta Laser vom Warhammer,Grasshopper,Thunderbolt and Rifleman. I regularly do 1500+ damage blah blah blah. What got me to write this post was a match on Tourmaline this morning. Wide open lanes of fire, enemy dug in to a good position and my LL's couldn't even touch them. Mean while our team was getting picked apart on the way to them. By the time we arrived we were so beat up a stiff breeze could have finished us off. Ebon Jag Laser Vomit builds felt like there were scores of them.

Thats cause there were scores of them... and Hellbringer LaserVomit added in. But dont worry.... every single Clanners on this forum will tell you its your fault that they have cERML that are the equivalent to IS LLs, not counting the cLPL or cERLL added in. the range advantage is quite obviously your fault and is not reflective of the Clan mechs being OP with their high alpha easy mode one button hill humping mechs.... its NOT that at all!!!!!

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

So far it looks like Clans are very hard to beat when certain maps show up (Alpine, Highlands, etc.) and they have Invasion pretty well locked down, but for any other map with the non-Invasion modes they are eminently beatable if the team plays carefully and the drop caller is both heeded and minimally competent.

Scouting is horrible, though. If the Clans got a 5-ton drop in max tonnage for Scouting the situation would be as close to even as you could hope for given the current XL disparity, but so long as every Clan drop has 1-2 Streakcrows IS has a horrible time with anything but a 200+ ton drop deck. Anything under 50 tons just evaporates under 5-6 cSSRM6s.

El Bandito, on 18 December 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

I joined the Clans as a merc today and lost my first match. Not because the IS side had better pilots or mechs, oh no. We were beating them up so badly that the score was 20-6 at mid-game, in our favor. We lost because for some reason the 5-man team from 228 didn't do jack to coordinate the rest of the team, and comms were dead silent all around. I was amazed at a guy from 228 who didn't switch his mech when he was at 32% health. The enemy won by destroying the generators.

Gonna have to call the drop myself next time.

It's been my experience that small-to-medium unit groups are horrible. They may do good work in their little crew, but they're always on TeamSpeak and refuse to use in-game comms. Full premades are super scary, of course, and a handful of good unit pilots can turn a PUG drop into the next best thing to a premade by drop-calling, but when they have critical mass but aren't the full team they tend to screw over their fellows by giving them the silent treatment and ignoring anything any non-unit players say.

Edit: I do want to brag a bit for a moment, though. I managed to drop-call a win on Alpine Skirmish. The Clans immediately started abusing their extreme energy range advantage, so we just turtled up in the hills near our spawn and refused to engage. Eventually they got impatient and close up. We killed a couple and got the edge on kills, then fell back to our LZ walls. It being Skirmish, they had to go for kills or lose to the timer, so it forced them into a CQB while they were all specced for extreme range dominance. We blew them out on kills. It wouldn't have worked with any other game mode, but for once the Skirmish rules actually played to our advantage.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 18 December 2016 - 02:41 PM.