125 replies to this topic

[Tibbnak]

What if they added vtol and tank and battle armor npcs to help the IS side?

Twin AC 20 demolisher rolls up.

[El Bandito]

I ******* hate it when people (mostly Clanners) say that this and this IS weapon doesn't need buffs because of quirks on certain mechs. Then what about tons of other mechs that do not have quirks for that weapon, huh? Just the fact that their calculation adds IS quirks into the equation, means the IS version of the weapon is inferior than that of Clan version, and thus needs balancing. Does it ever get into their effing minds that once the IS weapon (and tech) itself is balanced then most quirks can be removed entirely, and it will benefit the whole of IS, not just select few mechs?

Silly people and their silly reasons.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 December 2016 - 01:20 AM.

[Reza Malin]

Vonbach, on 19 December 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

Just give IS XL engines that don't blow up when you lose a torso. That would go a long way
to balancing IS and Clan. If clanners don't like it oh well.

This is an interesting idea. But then really what would be the point of having a standard engine at all? That's my only gripe.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Reza Malin, on 27 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

This is an interesting idea. But then really what would be the point of having a standard engine at all? That's my only gripe.

There wouldn't be one.

[El Bandito]

Reza Malin, on 27 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

This is an interesting idea. But then really what would be the point of having a standard engine at all? That's my only gripe.

TBF, IS XL has 3 slots per ST, insted of two like that of CXL. Which means certain ballistic and missile boating builds will require Std Engine, instead of XL engine.

[Reza Malin]

Snazzy Dragon, on 27 December 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

There wouldn't be one.

Yeah that is the issue. They would have to not only remove the death penalty from IS XL losing a ST, but also add some kind of advantage to standard engines to make them worthwhile also. Maybe extra heat sinks? I dunno.

All i know is this. I played clans when they fist dropped, and they were fun as hell, but OP as hell. Then i went back to IS for a long time, because deep down i prefer IS. This was pretty much until about a week ago, when the new marauder dropped. I love the marauder, so i decided to go merc and switch around again. Damn that mech is nice to play!

I have to say, that now the clans have battlemechs, and all the customisation that brings, along with their low weight, low space build options, with non fatal XL's, they really are starting to feel powerful again. Not invasion level powerful, but definitely an advantage. Im all for that as it is close to the lore, but they should compensate the IS in a non weapon based way, to keep the clan image of superior weapon tech, but while still giving the IS an equaliser.

Im not saying its easy, but the more clan battlemechs we get, the more prevalent the problem will become. And as i said, i play both sides and have no real bias either way.

[brroleg]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

I ******* hate it when people (mostly Clanners) say that this and this IS weapon doesn't need buffs because of quirks on certain mechs. Then what about tons of other mechs that do not have quirks for that weapon, huh? Just the fact that their calculation adds IS quirks into the equation, means the IS version of the weapon is inferior than that of Clan version, and thus needs balancing. Does it ever get into their effing minds that once the IS weapon (and tech) itself is balanced then most quirks can be removed entirely, and it will benefit the whole of IS, not just select few mechs?

Silly people and their silly reasons.

"quirks" argument soon will be irrelevant after implementing of new Skill Tree system.

[brroleg]

Reza Malin, on 27 December 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

I have to say, that now the clans have battlemechs, they really are starting to feel powerful again.

And that should not be a thing. In Lore, Clan Battlemechs is "downgrade" against Clan Omnimechs, but in our game its "upgrade".

Edited by brroleg, 27 December 2016 - 01:41 AM.

[El Bandito]

brroleg, on 27 December 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

"quirks" argument soon will be irrelevant after implementing of new Skill Tree system.

Russ said many IS mechs will still retain their quirks post new skill tree. Not sure if that includes only durability and mobility quirks, or weapon quirks as well.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Really my favorite thing though is lasers. A TBR laser vomit build with 2 large pulses and 6 mediums will have 22 damage over 2 lpls and 6 mediums on an is mech, for less weight and far more range in comparison. The heat difference is negligible because clan heatsinks are super boatable and cool shots cost nothing but a c bill tax and the burn time isn't that much longer.

[Jingseng]

Night gyr or kdk with a mustache and a sombrero? do it! Por la revolucion

[RestosIII]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 27 December 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Clan spls are to blame here mostly IMHO, even after the max range nerf they're superb weapons, while IS spls are just bad. Clan srms are not that outstanding due to higher spread and lower damage, especially srm4s. Clan spls could get a small nerf.

Also, now with working flamers, clan flamers are equal to is flamers while having half the weight AND while the clan mechs have more hardpoints on average to have many flamers AND a decent alpha combined. Nova can spend 3 tons to be able to overheat an enemy almost instantly with minimal own heat investment while still having a considerable alpha in the second fist... Clan flamers should actually be half as effective as IS ones to level things out.

Also, while still situational even after the buff, clan MGs are also much better than IS mgs, because they weight half as much. Lower health on MGs means nothing, lighter mechs that mostly use MGs don't have enough structure to worry about crits anyway. Clan MGs are useful now, IS MGs are still not IMHO. IS MGs should be buffed further to start being actually usefull.

As said many times above and before, IS can sometimes win with clans with risky brawl tactics, but only because clan long and medium range builds are so effective, most people don't bother making clan brawlers. I built a friggin underdog mech - the Viper - with spl+mgs and its a beast in brawling. Just because clan SPLs and clan MGs

You touch my Clan flamers, and I'll have to demand flamer quirks for my Adder. That thing has saved my life lots of times, and I'm not going to let it go to the trash heap because someone was unhappy about flamer tonnages

Snazzy Dragon, on 27 December 2016 - 01:38 AM, said:

Really my favorite thing though is lasers. A TBR laser vomit build with 2 large pulses and 6 mediums will have 22 damage over 2 lpls and 6 mediums on an is mech, for less weight and far more range in comparison. The heat difference is negligible because clan heatsinks are super boatable and cool shots cost nothing but a c bill tax and the burn time isn't that much longer.

While we're on the subject. I still want cool shots removed and replaced with a regular ol' coolant bar.

Edited by RestosIII, 27 December 2016 - 01:53 AM.

[Yanlowen Cage]

I have seen a bit of lore "Clans rolled I.S. in the beginning of the invasion". OK so if you throw lore out there, then please do. In FW/CW go with the 75% rule for Clan versus I.S. The clans being a group who highly valued resources (since they didn't have a lot(look up Kerensky cluster)). They bid DOWN their forces. So the typical I.S. versus clan battle would be say 400 I.S. tons versus roughly 300 Clan tons. And further more if the I.S. ran a battalion level unit (12 mechs) The clan would normally reply with two Stars (10 mechs). So yeah Clan hardware IS better. But in lore it is required to do more for less. More bang for the buck. Bring it into the game in FW/CW. 75% rule 10 vs. 12 and you would see a lot of balance issues come into line. Wouldn't do anything for pug play. But hey it's pug play and you get what you get. Not saying that is a perfect fix. But if a timberwolf/madcat is value up to be the same weight as an atlas then that timberwolf is still a great mech but not nearly as tough when it is required to take on an atlas plus possible other mechs. Not sure if that is the exact ratio. But is in that range.

Btw I play I.S. and Clan. Don't do CW/FW (for obvious reasons.(no balance)). So really I have no dog in this fight.

Edited by Yanlowen Cage, 27 December 2016 - 02:03 AM.

[Tarogato]

Okay, so here's how this works:



Clan brawl builds have almost always been better than the best IS brawl builds. Plus IS doesn't have any true brawling heavies, while Clans have the MDD, the TBR, the SMN, and even the EBJ can manage some serviceable brawl builds [option 1] [option 2].

But the thing is... Clans usually don't bring brawlers. A few 12-mans might, but even then it's kinda unusual. So you can typically count on Clans being in their more typical mid-long range builds, with either laservomit, or gauss+PPC. And you can absolutely smash those teams if you bring one or two waves of pure brawlers.

And the fun thing is... Clan laser duration and heat is generally worse then Innersphere. So if the Clans bring brawlers, and the IS doesn't, the IS weapons are actually better at dealing with brawlers than if it were the other way around (Clans trying to receive an IS brawler push with their lightsabres and PPFLD.) I suppose this is countered by the fact that Clans have the better brawlers, so it cancels out... BUT STILL! lol

[1453 R]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

I ******* hate it when people (mostly Clanners) say that this and this IS weapon doesn't need buffs because of quirks on certain mechs. Then what about tons of other mechs that do not have quirks for that weapon, huh? Just the fact that their calculation adds IS quirks into the equation, means the IS version of the weapon is inferior than that of Clan version, and thus needs balancing. Does it ever get into their effing minds that once the IS weapon (and tech) itself is balanced then most quirks can be removed entirely, and it will benefit the whole of IS, not just select few mechs?

Silly people and their silly reasons.

You keep saying things like this like they'll actually happen.

Don't get me wrong, I still want to see Sphere L2 tech, L3 additions, and a rebalance that levels off the imbalances between the two tech bases because that's the way the game is supposed to be...but c'mon, man. C'mon. You're not prepared for a period of at least six months, after this theoretical Great Rebalance, where the Sphere is crushingly dominant because they get to retain all their SuperMegaUltraQuirks on top of filling out their L2 tech, gaining some L3 SupahTech, and getting their L1 GarboTech balanced out to be the low-opcost stuff it's supposed to be?

Gotta remember that at least half the people on the Sphere end of these debates aren't interested in balance, they're just interested in flipping the imbalance and getting their Revenge(ance) on the Clan side. They can't do that if their SMUQuirks are replaced with actual tech balancing efforts.

[El Bandito]

1453 R, on 27 December 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

You keep saying things like this like they'll actually happen.

Don't get me wrong, I still want to see Sphere L2 tech, L3 additions, and a rebalance that levels off the imbalances between the two tech bases because that's the way the game is supposed to be...but c'mon, man. C'mon. You're not prepared for a period of at least six months, after this theoretical Great Rebalance, where the Sphere is crushingly dominant because they get to retain all their SuperMegaUltraQuirks on top of filling out their L2 tech, gaining some L3 SupahTech, and getting their L1 GarboTech balanced out to be the low-opcost stuff it's supposed to be?

Gotta remember that at least half the people on the Sphere end of these debates aren't interested in balance, they're just interested in flipping the imbalance and getting their Revenge(ance) on the Clan side. They can't do that if their SMUQuirks are replaced with actual tech balancing efforts.

And why should PGI give a damn about stupid people wanting quirks instead of actual balance? If PGI actually want their game to become better balanced, they should try to grow some balls while making some fundamental changes.

Also, lets get real. Many T2 and T3 techs, such as X-Pulse, or Light Gauss, while offering more diversity, are more of a sidegrade than straight up upgrade, according to their original values. A Light Gauss will never be directly superior than CGauss. An X-Pulse will never be directly superior than Clan pulse.

[GrimRiver]

Reza Malin, on 27 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

This is an interesting idea. But then really what would be the point of having a standard engine at all? That's my only gripe.

STD would still be good for zombie builds and mechs with low amount of crit slots.

And maybe give STD a +10 structure buff or something?

But heck, a non death XL ST loss would go light years for IS mechs.

Or just code in LFE's?

Edited by GrimRiver, 27 December 2016 - 07:31 AM.

[Koniving]

Summoner brawler build....?

Do tell.

[Juodas Varnas]

Koniving, on 27 December 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

Summoner brawler build....?

Do tell.

SRM boat?

[Koniving]

Juodas Varnas, on 27 December 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

SRM boat?

Never seen one (on a Summoner).
What is this "SRM Boat"? We have a navy?