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Dropzone Farming, Qq Some More About It Pls, Your Tears Are Sweet


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#41 Evil Goof

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 03:34 PM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 25 December 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Defending being a douchebag by a game's tagline. *slow clap*

Open Steam, go to library, go to games: Hey look there it is, Mechwarrior! It is not war, if you think it is, you're taking it way too seriously. But you know, I could try to convince you guys you are playing other people who are trying to enjoy themselves, but I might as well be talking to a wall. I know Forumwarrior tough guys need to put other people down to feel good about themselves.

Have a merry christmas, and you know, try being a decent human being now and then, I know it's hard for ya.

Lyons, out.


Good lord really? So to not play a game to the best of your abilities and to try and live up to some imaginary community standard that doesn't exist is how to be a decent person??? Somehow you reason if you don't play the game as you think it should be played that person is not a decent human being? You actually then say if not they are taking the game too seriously....and you judge them to be bad people?!?!? Think about that, what you are saying. Think hard and long. Really dig deep and ask yourself if you have thoroughly thought that through.

#42 Lyons De Flamand

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 04:58 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 25 December 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:


*snip* Meme to make me look cool *snip

You're projecting

Edit: I never said this is war, I just alerted you to the games tag line
Some say its a war game some say its not
Opinions vary

However it is a game where one side wins and one side loses
And according to Russ it's a E-sport
And the thing about sport is



By the by, yes you did. Don't crawl back on your own words now.

When you play MRBC, or World Championship I can understand that. There you can try hard and be twats to eachother all you want. Anywhere else, don't kid yourself. You're not a superstar, you're not a soldier in a life and death situation. You are a person playing a video game, against other people. And nowhere am I saying you have to throw matches. But giving the pugs a moment to set up and not get roflstomped makes it more fun for everyone (in the long run at least). And if you're oh so superior that you can dominate them anyway, it won't hurt you that much.

Edited by Lyons De Flamand, 25 December 2016 - 04:59 PM.


#43 50 50

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 05:55 PM

This has been an ongoing cause of complaint since day one, but shutting down a drop zone is a legitimate tactic that needs more functionality built into it.
The aspect of the tactic that is infuriating is being continually dropped, one at a time, into an area controlled by the enemy just to get shot to bits as soon a you have touched ground. It's this little bit that is the actual problem.

Until we have the option to change our drop zones easily and have a map large enough that we can capture or setup new drop zones then this will continue to happen.

I honestly don't see why the drop zones are not an additional optional objective to capture.
Surely that can't be difficult to implement.
We have all the bits we need in the game.
  • Put in those drop beacons (remember them?)
  • Give them a 'zone' like the conquest points so we can capture them.
  • When a 'zone' is shut down, the drop ship for that lance no longer deploys.
  • Put in a nice little message for the teams to say when it has been lost/captured.
  • Provide the team a capture bonus.
  • Allow the drop zone to be re-taken so we setup a dynamic for the teams and 'mini-missions'
  • If the drop zones are all captured then the victorious team can also get a bonus at the end of the match for the number of mechs that were not able to drop. (So there is still the c-bill benefit)
Edit:
Made a poll.
https://mwomercs.com...-camping-issue/

Edited by 50 50, 25 December 2016 - 06:27 PM.


#44 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 06:22 PM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 25 December 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:


By the by, yes you did. Don't crawl back on your own words now.

When you play MRBC, or World Championship I can understand that. There you can try hard and be twats to eachother all you want. Anywhere else, don't kid yourself. You're not a superstar, you're not a soldier in a life and death situation. You are a person playing a video game, against other people. And nowhere am I saying you have to throw matches. But giving the pugs a moment to set up and not get roflstomped makes it more fun for everyone (in the long run at least). And if you're oh so superior that you can dominate them anyway, it won't hurt you that much.


wOT Rock

Every thing you said, which so far has been a whole pile of nothing apart from trying to blemish me personally
Has said much more about you than me

Don't high and mighty with me
WTF have you added but insults NOTHING
You entittled angry man/women you

I'm not buying your gibberish

So what ever

#45 Lyons De Flamand

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 10:28 PM

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Generic_you


But hey, if the shoe fits, and you feel they are ad hominem, by all means...

#46 Jewdi

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 11:10 PM

Clanners are pathetic.

They just afraid to go IS because then they will be shown that all thier coordination doesn't mean 2 shits when they will be stomped by still-clanners with the same level of coordination.

And then they will be average pug potatoes. Well it's not good for the forum image you know. Better stay on safe clanner side and continue stomping pugs which have 2 disadvantages tech and no coordination.

Edited by Jewdi, 25 December 2016 - 11:12 PM.


#47 nehebkau

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 08:34 AM

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 25 December 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

Several people (including myself) on this thread are doing their best to channel Herm Edwards.

And as levity is fun and no one can quite match the original rant.

https://youtu.be/b5-iJUuPWis

Seriously though...merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone here. We might not always agree on what is best for the game, but I am glad to that the player base cares about the future of MWO and FP!


Just one point:

FW in MWO is as much a sport as Monopoly or pictionary.

I play monopoly and pictionary to win but it's important to me that everyone involved has fun so that we can play again another time.

Edited by nehebkau, 26 December 2016 - 08:45 AM.


#48 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 09:20 AM

View Postnehebkau, on 26 December 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:


Just one point:

FW in MWO is as much a sport as Monopoly or pictionary.

I play monopoly and pictionary to win but it's important to me that everyone involved has fun so that we can play again another time.


Personally, I think part of the disagreement here is just a matter of how competitive people want to get with this game. You might think monopoly, while I think more intramural sports...it's not life or death or even pro sports, but you also shouldn't expect people to let up either. I think people forget or don't realize that when a team realizes their opponent is no match for them that they many times want to end the game asap...that can be through getting objectives (like gens) or in many modes killing the other team as fast as possible, which can seem brutal... but they want to move on to another game as well and killing quick does that. FP is just a more competitive area of the game than QP is...so new players are actually warned to beware. Now, as we actually do need new players in the mode the question becomes how we do that without losing the somewhat harder competitive edge that FP is supposed to have. I think you can help new players who want to learn get better and not end up getting farmed so much...but those who want to do their own thing can't really be helped and unfortunately those seem to be the majority and it kills their team.
If PGI could do a split queue then some of this would be avoided. Although I would expect a better PUG group to spawn camp another PUG group if they could.

#49 SavageConvoy

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 10:42 AM

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 26 December 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

I think people forget or don't realize that when a team realizes their opponent is no match for them that they many times want to end the game asap...that can be through getting objectives (like gens) or in many modes killing the other team as fast as possible, which can seem brutal.

The problem though, is the amount of time it takes for people to cycle through all four mechs and the futility of respawning in the first place.
If you look at a game like Overwatch, you'll often see entire teams wiped in an instant and the enemy can push back to the spawn point. But the spawn points are protected areas that let the team regroup.
In this game, the spawn is completely open with no real defenses in place and the respawns are staggered.

Quote

they want to move on to another game as well and killing quick does that.

Where they will have another game with likely the same results.
Even is someone loses a game, they want to feel like they at least did something. Not solo drop into the drop zone, where a whole lance will focus fire them down they can even get a second shot off.

Imagine if the drop zone was out of bounds for the enemy, with terrain that favored the mechs dropping in, and drops would put down a full lance at a time rather than stagger.
Would it really hurt the side that used to be able to push to the drop zone to let them effectively regroup? Not likely to change the course of the game.
Does it make it last longer? A little bit, but nobody should expect a game of FP to end quickly anyways.
Does it make the losing side feel better? Would anyone be against the losing side just having a less crushing defeat?

#50 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:33 AM

View PostSavageConvoy, on 26 December 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

The problem though, is the amount of time it takes for people to cycle through all four mechs and the futility of respawning in the first place.
If you look at a game like Overwatch, you'll often see entire teams wiped in an instant and the enemy can push back to the spawn point. But the spawn points are protected areas that let the team regroup.
In this game, the spawn is completely open with no real defenses in place and the respawns are staggered.


Where they will have another game with likely the same results.
Even is someone loses a game, they want to feel like they at least did something. Not solo drop into the drop zone, where a whole lance will focus fire them down they can even get a second shot off.

Imagine if the drop zone was out of bounds for the enemy, with terrain that favored the mechs dropping in, and drops would put down a full lance at a time rather than stagger.
Would it really hurt the side that used to be able to push to the drop zone to let them effectively regroup? Not likely to change the course of the game.
Does it make it last longer? A little bit, but nobody should expect a game of FP to end quickly anyways.
Does it make the losing side feel better? Would anyone be against the losing side just having a less crushing defeat?


I am all for PGI doing whatever it can to protect spawn points (turrets, dropships, walls...whatever). Make it as risky as possible for the winning team to go near there. I am not saying "hurrah for spawn camping"...PGI can change what they want and I don't think you would see any teams posting threads about how upset they are that they can't spawn camp as easily if PGI changed it. PGI sets the rules and I fully expect players to push to the maximum whatever rules PGI sets.

I have been spawn camped (many, many times when I was earlier in the game)...so i totally get the feeling. Problem is that PGI directly rewards players with Cbills for kills, etc and teams with MC who get the most tags (wins by members)...so many groups want to end it by quick killing so as to get the cbills and to requeue for another game. I am not saying it is the best system....Just this the system PGI gave us and I am enough of a cynic to no expect players to work against their own (albeit short-term) interests for the longer term benefit of getting more people in the mode. It's PGi's issue to fix if they want to and I am not saying it's perfect the way it is. I just don't expect players to change their behavior, when you are winning you want to ensure the win.

#51 Commander A9

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:50 AM

I can only ponder the frightful headway people would make if they put the same sort of energy and effort that they put into their forum-posting into their actual gameplay...

#52 nehebkau

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:51 PM

View PostCommander A9, on 26 December 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

I can only ponder the frightful headway people would make if they put the same sort of energy and effort that they put into their forum-posting into their actual gameplay...


That goes both ways.

#53 Spam Lanwalker

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 04:26 PM

[Redacted] defending spawn camping is just sad *shakes head

Edited by draiocht, 01 March 2017 - 03:09 AM.
insult


#54 Kwea

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:10 PM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 24 December 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

But this isn't a war, this is a game.

Let me repeat.

It's just a game!!!!

And by being a total douchebag you'll make sure you'll be only playing with yourself really fast.

And in no game EVER is it your opponents responsibility to make sure you know how to play, that you understand group play, or that you own mechs that can fill the roles needed for end game content.

There are guides written by MS, 228, and many other groups SPECIFICALLY to teach people what does and doesn't work in this GAME. I personally have spent the last year training group after group of new recruits for MS, and helping many, many other players learn the basics of FW, and I am not the only one doing so, not by a long shot. Hell...we have had nights where our drop callers switched and called for the opposing team, in private lobbies, just so they would learn what we like to do and what we think works. I know others do the same...Church of Skill, the Davion hub groups, the FRR hub.....all of them help other players out, IF ASKED.

If you want to get better there are things you can learn, people you can talk to, and groups to join to help you learn.

If you don't...then stop whining and making excuses. Be as casual as you want, but don't project that on to other people or groups who want to learn and get better. Everyone enjoys different things about gaming, and there is no right answer. For some people getting better and learning new tactics, loadouts and plays are what they enjoy, and your lack of desire....or time....or ability... isn't their problem.

It's not my fault I get teamed up against new people, and half the time I am trying to show MY new people the right way to play a map or position, so don't care how far up we are, or what the score is... we still try to drill the correct moves. If I can push into a spawn and get 1-2 permadeads, I do, because against REAL players that is often the difference between winning and losing a match.

Easing up just teaches bad habits, and never wins us any friends. We still get salt even after letting someone point, so why should we bother continuing to do it after people get pissy and call us cheats, liars, and claim we ruining their game while they were driving 4 mechs that sucked even in closed beta?

I'm sorry if that makes your playing less enjoyable, but if it does that's your fault, not mine. You don't enter a chess tourney if all you have ever played is checkers. If you do, that's your fault, not the opposing players.

Edited by Kwea, 26 December 2016 - 05:15 PM.


#55 Kwea

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:28 PM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 25 December 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:


There you can try hard and be twats to eachother all you want. Anywhere else, don't kid yourself. You're not a superstar, you're not a soldier in a life and death situation. You are a person playing a video game, against other people.


You are a lousy player trying to make other people take a time out mid-game so it will look like you suck less than you do. Call us twats, make all the excuses you want...that's what this boils down to.

Never mind that players hide in spawn all the time so we have to learn how to dig you out. To be honest that's at LEAST as much of an issue as yours. I've done it, in close matches....it's a valid tactic as the clock runs down, IMO. So people figured out a counter, and you don't like it.

Tough.

I am a low to mid level comp player, at best, not a tough guy....not an elitist...not a powergamer. I'm a 46 year old nurse who works for hospice, and for an ALF taking care of people who have no one else to take care of them. I AM a good guy, and yet.....I still like tactics, loadouts, and comp play, even though I am not good at it compared to many others.

When I lose....I get mad, then I figure out what I can do....not what I want to make other people do against me...to do better next time. Do what YOU want, play how YOU want..but stop being bitchy about how I play. I spent too many hours learning to go back to puglandia.

You don't get to a comp level at anything...not even a low comp level like me...without trying to improve all the time.

#56 Willard Phule

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 04:27 AM

Seems to me there's an obvious solution.

Since PGI can't code anything at all that separates the T1-T2s from the T4-T5s, then perhaps giving them a "ringer" at their spawn would allow them to survive a bit longer. At least until they leave spawn, find a place to zoom and fire LRMs.

How's about you give the Leopard the actual load out it's supposed to have? Make it dangerous to approach the drop zones. Now, granted, all you can do is protect the drop. You can't artificially give the potatoes any sort of tactical acumen, but at least they can camp their dropzone safely.

#57 Cyrilis

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 04:45 AM

View PostDANKnuggz, on 22 December 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Let me restate that.... In WAR, if your strategy is pissing the enemy off, you're doing your job right.


Yes, you made a poiunt here. but this is a warGAME, and in a game you cant piss off the other players too much, because if yiou do, there will be nobidy left you can play with. Thats exactly what happened to the top notch unit. They pissed off all the players, players left, FW population went down. So pls have your fun, but let the others have theirs too!

#58 Willard Phule

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 04:59 AM

View PostCyrilis, on 27 December 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:


Yes, you made a poiunt here. but this is a warGAME, and in a game you cant piss off the other players too much, because if yiou do, there will be nobidy left you can play with. Thats exactly what happened to the top notch unit. They pissed off all the players, players left, FW population went down. So pls have your fun, but let the others have theirs too!


Hahahahaha....nobody left to play with....BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Dude, PGI's marketing department has NEVER had a problem getting a fresh crop of droolers into the game every month. The problem is retainability. Once new players figure out that there is nothing separating them from the 12 man skill balls, no meaningful tutorial to teach you before you join in with the T1s because there is no matchmaker.....they leave.

Get used to it. PGI doesn't have the faintest idea of how to keep people separated until they are of a comparable skill level.

#59 QuantumButler

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 06:03 AM

Spawn Camping is a tried and true multiplayer FPS game mechanic.

The alternative is having spawns the enemy can't reach, meaning losing teams will just hide in the spawn after losing their first wave and run out the timer.

#60 Sjorpha

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 07:16 AM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 25 December 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:


By the by, yes you did. Don't crawl back on your own words now.

When you play MRBC, or World Championship I can understand that. There you can try hard and be twats to eachother all you want. Anywhere else, don't kid yourself. You're not a superstar, you're not a soldier in a life and death situation. You are a person playing a video game, against other people. And nowhere am I saying you have to throw matches. But giving the pugs a moment to set up and not get roflstomped makes it more fun for everyone (in the long run at least). And if you're oh so superior that you can dominate them anyway, it won't hurt you that much.


Personally I think the most respectful way of treating your opponent is trying to win as effectively and quickly as possible, I find it very condescending when good players handicap themselves against bad players as if that was some kind of nice and generous gesture. At least if the less good player didn't ask for it it's not ok.

It may sound wrong but IMO that applies to drop farming too, the game was designed with dropzones and the reward system rewards killing everyone. So playing the game as designed with maximum efficiency is the nicest thing you can do the way I see it. If you don't like the design that is something to talk to PGI about.





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