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Dropzone Farming, Qq Some More About It Pls, Your Tears Are Sweet


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#61 Ssamout

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 07:45 AM

How about instead of spawn camping, which is bad like, we play a game of cat n mouse?

First leg the derps, then commence with the removal of arms. When u got that one legged torso hopping about. do the xl-check - and if that doesnt cure the patient, go for zombie mod. There is always the possibility for a headshot later on!

Farm like a true gamer!

#62 SavageConvoy

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 10:49 AM

I find it funny so many complain about new and unskilled players in Faction Play while also seeing so many people defending drop zone camping.
By stopping the enemy from having any chance to regroup you're just killing any learning curve there is to the game.
"Oh, they shouldn't take bad mechs!"
Congrats. They won't know what a bad mech is because 3/4 of their drop was in mechs that had a field time of a few minutes combined.
"They should learn tactics"
Great. They know that not to get surrounded by a larger number of mechs. Job well done.

#63 Sjorpha

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 10:56 AM

View PostSavageConvoy, on 27 December 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

I find it funny so many complain about new and unskilled players in Faction Play while also seeing so many people defending drop zone camping.
By stopping the enemy from having any chance to regroup you're just killing any learning curve there is to the game.
"Oh, they shouldn't take bad mechs!"
Congrats. They won't know what a bad mech is because 3/4 of their drop was in mechs that had a field time of a few minutes combined.
"They should learn tactics"
Great. They know that not to get surrounded by a larger number of mechs. Job well done.


The PLAYERS should just play to the best of their abilities to win.

The DEVELOPERS should fix the game so that matches are more fun and better balanced.

It's a mirage to think that players can fix a game's design and balance problems, exploiting them at least makes them visible to the developer so that is the most constructive action players can take.

#64 SavageConvoy

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 12:39 PM

Using that logic, then it's actually a good thing for people to cheat in games so that the developers can have a more effective means to counter cheating. I'm okay with you not being the hero Gotham deserves, but don't pretend you're the hero Gotham needs.

Is there a problem with the game itself? Yes, it's been pointed out and the developer knows it exists. They are tracking that information by the win loss rate of IS v Clan.
Does spawn camping affect this metric? No. Because it's not like the other side is risking their edge in the game one way or another and as far as I'm aware they are only tracking the IS v Clan win record.
Is it any effort to make the game more enjoyable for the other side? Not at all. Just don't push to the point they can't regroup and keep doing what let you get an edge in the first place.

#65 NotASecretAce

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 07:13 PM

Spawn camping is a good way to get people to stop playing CW. I have been on both sides... things are a lot easier as a clanner.

#66 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:56 PM

Just bring back the op drop ships already

Let them have their turtle defense/tactics, grab a kill lead and turtle

Its all good, its like variety and still won't save you every time against every team

I mean if the teams pushed back that far, why not give them a chance of winning the turtle way

I dont mind

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 27 December 2016 - 08:58 PM.


#67 QuantumButler

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 09:40 PM

TBH a big factor in the spawn camping is the new QP FW maps, some of the spawns are located in perfect spawn camping areas the afford a team with hills they can easily climb to obtain completely unobstructed lines of fire right into the spawn, out of range of the dropship lasers but able to shoot at anyone.

#68 Sjorpha

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 09:59 PM

View PostSavageConvoy, on 27 December 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Using that logic, then it's actually a good thing for people to cheat in games so that the developers can have a more effective means to counter cheating.


I'm saying: Players should play the game as designed with maximum effort.

Cheating is not playing the game as designed, because cheats are by definition breaking the rules.

PGI designed dropzone farming to be effective and legal in the game. PGI did not however put cheat programs or the like in the game.

I think the difference is quite clear.

The deeper point is that you can not use moral policing in online games with a lot of players, it has never worked and never will work.

For starters 99% of the players aren't even taking part in discussing the issue, so even if every single person hearing the message listened and agreed it would not have a measurable impact on behavior in the game. And that is the best case scenario, the reality is probably that most people don't even agree spawncamping is wrong. I don't. So even in order to have your extremely minimal impact you have to convince someone your morals are valid, and that's not easy because the general term for people that wants to impose their own morals on gameplay is "scrub", people don't want to be scrubs generally.

The only way to affect behavior in the game is by designing the game to promote or limit the behavior, and/or to enforce rules you can't strictly design to be unbreakable by banning people.

PGI could easily make it impossible to farm dropzones, but the truth is that farming is a skill disparity issue and it wouldn't be that much more fun to be farmed in some other way.

I think the best way to deal with this would be to make ending the match as quickly as possible through objectives pay out more cbills than killing all the remaining mechs. So that farming loses you money compared to taking down omega or whatever the objective is. Some people would complainin about mathces ending quickly, but the truth is that a match with enough skill disparity to allow spawn camping is best served by ending as quickly as possible so hopefully a better match can follow. So make all game modes have a wincon other than killing mechs and make that wincon pay out higher rewards than spawncamping.

Banning and other policing is also quite resource ineffective unfortunately, but at least it's a little more meaningful than forum moralism.

Edited by Sjorpha, 27 December 2016 - 10:17 PM.


#69 DANKnuggz

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 11:16 PM

I knew this thread would bring out the crybabies LOL... It is a game, but if you're not willing to put your time in on your own to become better, WHY SHOULD I BOTHER TO HELP YOU??... There is plenty of info about tactics and builds on the forums and ANYONE who isn't taking advantage of that information to better their chances of winning only has themselves to blame....

Expecting your enemy to slow down and hold your hand is just plain STUPID... I play this game to DESTROY the opposition by the swiftest means available to me and have ZERO interest in coaching my opponents... I really don't want this game to become filled with whiney douchebags crying because they are trying to play in full competitive mode when they belong in QP.

I've been spawn camped myself but instead of crying about it, I sucked it up like an adult. You'll never catch me on here crying "WHAAAAAA MOMMY THEY WON'T LET ME SHOOT THEM BACK!!!!" If you can't grow up and take your woopin w/o throwing a baby hissy fit, I'd rather not play a game with you anyhow... Most of you crybabies were probably part of the problem when your teams got rolled but I'm sure few of you will admit to that...

PLS keep filling my bucket with your tears... as I said, They are SWEET!!

#70 Black Ivan

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 03:16 AM

Good that CW will be dead again soon ™

#71 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 04:20 AM

No match maker
How do you balance skill? Somebody!!!!
was bound to happen

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 28 December 2016 - 04:21 AM.


#72 Willard Phule

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 04:35 AM

View PostSavageConvoy, on 27 December 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

I find it funny so many complain about new and unskilled players in Faction Play while also seeing so many people defending drop zone camping.
By stopping the enemy from having any chance to regroup you're just killing any learning curve there is to the game.
"Oh, they shouldn't take bad mechs!"
Congrats. They won't know what a bad mech is because 3/4 of their drop was in mechs that had a field time of a few minutes combined.
"They should learn tactics"
Great. They know that not to get surrounded by a larger number of mechs. Job well done.


At what point did teaching become part of my job description? I'm sick and tired of hearing "teach them how to play." 3+ years now and guess what? They still don't listen or learn.

How can it possibly be the responsibility of the player base to teach new players when the company that produces the game doesn't have any requirements before allowing them into "end game content?" There's a tutorial out there. It actually teaches you how to move and shoot. Why isn't it a REQUIREMENT before being allowed to join FW?

Tell you what. Since the potatoes are earning a "cadet bonus," how about I get a "trainer bonus" for every T5 I have to drop with?

#73 Kroete

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 07:25 AM

New player comes in the game,
maybe plays the tutorial,
explores quickplay and does his first steps,
trys the mode thats not a simple deathmatch,
gets rolled by groups and spawncampened,
finds a new game with seperated skills and no spawncamping
or just plays quickplay for a few matches a week.

The problem will be solved over timed,
but dont cry if you cant milk the cow you have butchered.

Best solution would be a "competive" checkbox,
this would seperate the competive and the fun crowds.
They just need to make it fixed for each season,
to prevent the hopping.
The numbers we would be see then would be also really interesting and the leaderboards too. Posted Image

Edited by Kroete, 28 December 2016 - 07:27 AM.


#74 Bellum Dominum

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 07:53 AM

So what 1 year now, maybe 2 years now, and people are still crying about getting spawn camped in FW? Turrets by the spawn were added. Spawns were moved back to a 'safe space' (see what I did there? lol). Those are just two changes that were made that I know of myself to better appease those that simply aren't doing what is needed to be on an effective FW team. It was stated, and stated well, before. If you want to do FW you should be on a teamspeak, discord, whatever voip, organize a drop (take 15 minutes at least discussing what every one is bringing, deciding what your waves will be, etc) and most importantly EVERYONE follow that plan.

Honestly a person doesn't learn from having things handed to them yet losing repeatedly and being humble enough to reflect upon what you did wrong is the very best way to learn.

#75 Commander A9

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 04:07 PM

Perhaps we should bring back artillery and have it used only when enemy personnel enter the opposing spawn zones?

[/wild obnoxious sarcasm]

#76 Fox the Apprentice

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 07:12 AM

View PostCommander A9, on 24 December 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Are you suggesting that big teams/skilled players should throw matches in order to have people play against us? Should we artificially lose simply because we think winning too much will drive the opposition away?
[...]

No. If one side (Clans now, in January it was IS) is always winning, they you should switch sides so everyone can have a fair game. When enough people switch, the only imbalance will be due to tech, which only PGI can solve.

If you are set on always winning and farming the other side because "the game permits it", then you are part of the problem.
If you are set on always winning, but are willing to have an actual opponent, then move to the side where you'll have the actual opponent.

#77 Mystere

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 07:58 AM

Sigh!

When people initially went directly for objectives by destroying the generators, many players complained about generator rushes.

When PGI made it more difficult to destroy generators, many of those same players then complained that they were being farmed for kills.

Do I need to tell the rest of the story? Posted Image

#78 Mystere

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 08:02 AM

View PostCommander A9, on 28 December 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

Perhaps we should bring back artillery and have it used only when enemy personnel enter the opposing spawn zones?


Posted Image


View PostCommander A9, on 28 December 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

[/wild obnoxious sarcasm]


Posted Image

Edited by Mystere, 29 December 2016 - 01:57 PM.


#79 Graugger

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 08:21 AM

And then you wonder why you can't find people to drop against -.-

#80 Commander A9

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 04:54 PM

View PostFox the Apprentice, on 29 December 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

No. If one side (Clans now, in January it was IS) is always winning, they you should switch sides so everyone can have a fair game. When enough people switch, the only imbalance will be due to tech, which only PGI can solve.

If you are set on always winning and farming the other side because "the game permits it", then you are part of the problem.
If you are set on always winning, but are willing to have an actual opponent, then move to the side where you'll have the actual opponent.


So because we win...

...we're part of the problem?

Therefore...to fix the problem...we should start losing so people find the game to be more "fair..."

Don't you remember when the major teams would switch sides and then the map would flip by occupation?

Sorry, pal. Not my job to make sure everyone has a fair game.

It's my job to help my team win.

Enough whining.

Edited by Commander A9, 29 December 2016 - 05:20 PM.






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