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Dropzone Farming, Qq Some More About It Pls, Your Tears Are Sweet


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#81 Lyons De Flamand

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 03:00 AM

Still not understanding the difference between stomping and winning?

#82 Fox the Apprentice

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 05:58 AM

View PostCommander A9, on 29 December 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

[...]
Therefore...to fix the problem...we should start losing so people find the game to be more "fair..."
[...]

Read my words, son.

View PostFox the Apprentice, on 29 December 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

[...]
If one side (Clans now, in January it was IS) is always winning, then you should switch sides so everyone can have a fair game.
[...]

I can't lay it out any simpler than that. Posted Image

#83 justcallme A S H

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 06:13 AM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 30 December 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

Still not understanding the difference between stomping and winning?


I haven't seen a hell of a lotta stomping in Oceanic. It's literally been stuck on Skirmish for hours each cycle because it's a win one, lose one scenario.

Have had epic games against the ISEN/MJ12 and others (who I forget cause I'm tired atm)... Almost every evening for the past week. I actually am half excited to get on because I know there is a challenge awaiting. Within 5mins of logging on I've usually got people inviting me to FP groups and get stuck into the battle.

Eventually clans are winning simply based on population, but it can't be anymore than 55% in Oceanic given how slow the bar moves (3hrs of Skirmish tonight alone) and also how many games I play in where we win/lose - it's almost 1 for 1. We aren't a PUGbowl, nor are the IS teams. It's a mixed 8-12 vs a mixed 8-12 each time.

Sometimes if a team gets pushed to the DZ, it gets farmed. Does that mean it's a 12-man stomproll? Hell no.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 December 2016 - 06:14 AM.


#84 Stormie

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 06:35 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 30 December 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:


I haven't seen a hell of a lotta stomping in Oceanic. It's literally been stuck on Skirmish for hours each cycle because it's a win one, lose one scenario.

Have had epic games against the ISEN/MJ12 and others (who I forget cause I'm tired atm)... Almost every evening for the past week. I actually am half excited to get on because I know there is a challenge awaiting. Within 5mins of logging on I've usually got people inviting me to FP groups and get stuck into the battle.

Eventually clans are winning simply based on population, but it can't be anymore than 55% in Oceanic given how slow the bar moves (3hrs of Skirmish tonight alone) and also how many games I play in where we win/lose - it's almost 1 for 1. We aren't a PUGbowl, nor are the IS teams. It's a mixed 8-12 vs a mixed 8-12 each time.

Sometimes if a team gets pushed to the DZ, it gets farmed. Does that mean it's a 12-man stomproll? Hell no.

Hey pretty sure IS have been closer to winning than clans each attackphase for at least half the last 7 days :P.
However I agree balance in oceanic is awesome at the moment. Cant believe we haven't played you yet. There must be more games happening than you think

#85 justcallme A S H

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 06:44 AM

Indeed - Haven't seen you once oddly enough!

I've seen that pesky Jarl quite a bit lol. We may or may not have been hunting him for good matches Posted Image

I would take a stab at at least 3 concurrent games running in Oceanic. Which at 72 people is the most it's been for easily, 6 months. Maybe more. That is just going off my friends list, knowing who is QP/FP dropping etc etc. So it could even be more than 3 concurrent at any given time.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 December 2016 - 06:44 AM.


#86 Dee Eight

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 11:18 AM

View PostCommander A9, on 24 December 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Are you suggesting that big teams/skilled players should throw matches in order to have people play against us? Should we artificially lose simply because we think winning too much will drive the opposition away?


I would suggest that actually making it a more sporting match would be more fun for both sides players and that maybe the population base wouldn't then keep shrinking.

#87 Commander A9

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 01:26 PM

And I can't make it any more simple on my end.

It's not my job to make sure my enemy has fun.

It's my job to win, and if I have to destroy him to do it, so be it.

I will not handicap or censure myself.

I will not hold back or restrain myself.

I will use all legal tools I have at my disposal to win regardless of how my enemy feels about it.

There are no participation trophies here. You either win, or you lose.

So scream all you want about 'balance,' or 'griefers,' or how 'bad 12-man murderballs are ruining this game.' It only provides for mid-match entertainment.

Edited by Commander A9, 30 December 2016 - 04:52 PM.


#88 Dee Eight

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 02:31 PM

And how much fun and entertainment will you be having when PGI eliminates FW altogether ? Because it won't be worth the server space to support a mode that only has a couple hundred participants.

#89 justcallme A S H

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 02:44 PM

FP has on average only had a few 100 at any given time the last 12 months. A bit less after Phase 3.

Lately it's much higher than that, because the QPs are spilling into the mode and then crying about being beaten by veteran players of the mode.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 December 2016 - 02:44 PM.


#90 Commoners

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 02:45 PM

You're right on all counts, Commander A9, but it is PGI's job to make a competitive environment. Asymmetrical sides are difficult to balance, and nerfing one side or buffing the other hurts people's feelings. Failure to create a competitive environment has given MWO a relatively small population, and an even smaller one for faction warfare. With that small population you can't pit large groups against large groups, you just kind of throw everyone into the mix for the sake of people actually being able to play the game.

For people who want to actually compete, it isn't fun stomping disorganized drops of mostly new players, and it isn't fun for the new players or the people who are playing with them to get stomped. The less fun something is the less people will play, especially since we live in a day and age where there are lots of different games with healthy competitive scenes that are well balanced whether they have symmetrical or asymmetrical gameplay.

Some people have fun power tripping, but those people have a very small overlap with actual competitive players who want to have fun playing against people who are actually able to give them a run for their money.

PGI has been getting closer to creating a competitive game out of faction warfare, but they're still so far off target that getting super gung ho and making it sound like winning against swathes of bad and/or disorganized players is an accomplishment is just forums comedy. Brag freely about your great individual wins against other organized drops, but winning planets in FW as a whole really doesn't mean much at all. If I bragged about my victories against the 6 year olds in the junior t-ball league and then berated the six year olds for being whining babies when they complain about playing against a grown man, it's just me being a jerk instead of being the top of the competition and waving a well won trophy around.

Take your wins against pugs with grace, and then brag about your actual competitive victories. Don't showboat over expected outcomes.

Edited by Commoners, 30 December 2016 - 02:56 PM.


#91 Rugbypig

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 03:46 PM

View PostCommoners, on 30 December 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

You're right on all counts, Commander A9, but it is PGI's job to make a competitive environment. Asymmetrical sides are difficult to balance, and nerfing one side or buffing the other hurts people's feelings. Failure to create a competitive environment has given MWO a relatively small population, and an even smaller one for faction warfare. With that small population you can't pit large groups against large groups, you just kind of throw everyone into the mix for the sake of people actually being able to play the game.

For people who want to actually compete, it isn't fun stomping disorganized drops of mostly new players, and it isn't fun for the new players or the people who are playing with them to get stomped. The less fun something is the less people will play, especially since we live in a day and age where there are lots of different games with healthy competitive scenes that are well balanced whether they have symmetrical or asymmetrical gameplay.

Some people have fun power tripping, but those people have a very small overlap with actual competitive players who want to have fun playing against people who are actually able to give them a run for their money.

PGI has been getting closer to creating a competitive game out of faction warfare, but they're still so far off target that getting super gung ho and making it sound like winning against swathes of bad and/or disorganized players is an accomplishment is just forums comedy. Brag freely about your great individual wins against other organized drops, but winning planets in FW as a whole really doesn't mean much at all. If I bragged about my victories against the 6 year olds in the junior t-ball league and then berated the six year olds for being whining babies when they complain about playing against a grown man, it's just me being a jerk instead of being the top of the competition and waving a well won trophy around.

Take your wins against pugs with grace, and then brag about your actual competitive victories. Don't showboat over expected outcomes.



Well . . . . that means no more Commander A9, OZHomerOZ, DANKnuggz, they don't want to fight coordinated teams of skilled players - they'd be the baby seals - they just want to brag about their "exploits" in this as well as other forums as they "show" their very limited prowess over people just trying out FW for the first time.

Their "I'm awesome and I WILL brag about it" theme is present in every forum.

Edited by Rugbypig, 30 December 2016 - 03:46 PM.


#92 Commander A9

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 04:54 PM

Excuse me? I never said I didn't want to fight coordinated teams. I don't fear fighting anyone-don't proceed to accuse me of trying to avoid a particular enemy-ever!

I respect all (with the exception of pugs who whine about balance or how 12-mans are kicking their asses when they have all tools, means, and resources available to organize and do battle against them)...

...and I will fight all (as we did last night, and as we have done so against many major units, because we don't get to pick who we fight, and we don't control who we drop against-we never have)...

...while fearing none (and I mean none-I am scared of no team, no enemy, no opposition).

I look forward to seeing you and your team on the field. And if you think I'm too scared to fight you, you may drop in Community Warfare and test your assumptions at your earliest convenience...

...and I brag about nothing, but I do step up to defeat the argument that big teams are destroying Faction Warfare, because it is not my fault that you aren't having fun, nor is it my responsibility to make sure you as my enemy enjoy yourself...

...surrat!

Enough whining!

Edited by Commander A9, 30 December 2016 - 04:59 PM.


#93 Commoners

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 06:05 PM

lol @ saying you respect all, then immediately recanting that, followed by boasting and bragging about your ability to not brag and being fearless, followed by calling someone a monkey.

You don't need to tell everyone that you aren't afraid of playing a video game that has no stakes on the line. That just sort of comes with playing games, and the only people who should be getting anxious over video games are professionals who are banking their paychecks on victories.

It isn't big teams' faults that they are killing off faction warfare's population, it's PGI's, but that doesn't change the fact that FW has been in its death throes for a long while now, with a large part of that decline being that it is unfun for lots of people to play.

There's a very tiny minority population in the game that exists in units large enough to field large drops that have fun in the mode and then a few weird people who like to solo drop and see what happens, but otherwise there really isn't room for small groups or solo players who don't have the tribal knowledge needed to succeed in FW. Those people come on the forums and express this, and then get patronized and told that their opinion on what's fun or not is wrong.

I'd say it was basically dead by the end of phase 3. It was at least dead enough that they even tried throwing QP modes into it just to see what would happen, like Dr. Frankenstein deciding he may as well try 30,000 more volts because his monster stopped moving, and it's not like it can make the situation worse, right?

I sincerely hope that they can breathe some life into FW, because I've always had fun playing it. Doesn't change that lots of community good will has been burnt out and we've just entered the fourth phase of "It'll be different this time, I swear."

Edited by Commoners, 30 December 2016 - 06:07 PM.


#94 Commander A9

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 06:22 PM

I appreciate your understanding of where the fault lies.

I don't think Faction Warfare is dead. Not really. People still play it. It's not dead until its player count crashes to zero.

Or people stop paying for PGI's packs.

You're right that alot of people got burned out of it, though. And you're definitely right that Phase 3 did more harm than good...

So then it's up to us to make our own fun. I suggested this way back when. People make their own fun with the game as it is-most of us in the units have our fun by playing together, be it in Faction Warfare or Quickplay. Have you not seen (MS) giving people Crabs? Or bringing about the LRMpocalypse?

Edited by Commander A9, 30 December 2016 - 06:23 PM.


#95 Alexander Grimtotem

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 06:57 PM

mmm IS tears....

#96 Dee Eight

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 07:42 PM

If the solaris 1v1 map proves popular, and they expand it... they should replace FW with Solaris 4v4 games...or just eliminate the faction part of respawn warfare and then we'd see the actual big groups having to play one another.

#97 Commander A9

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:45 PM

I hope so. I've only been begging for Solaris for months...

#98 BLOOD WOLF

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:57 PM

View PostCommander A9, on 30 December 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

I hope so. I've only been begging for Solaris for months...

I don't don't do enough solaris 1v1

Community tourney anyone?

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 30 December 2016 - 08:57 PM.


#99 Commoners

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 01:20 AM

Maybe give an option for fully manned drops to specifically issue a challenge out to other fully manned groups, which would prevent them from landing in a completely noncompetitive pug game. Sure, they would still totally have the option of dropping into a slaughter, but I think that a lot of groups that drop in FW would enjoy being able to have a guaranteed drop against another organized group. It'd also be a silly homage to clan batchalls and the like to be relatively lore friendly.

If large drops on each side actually used this feature they may take a few more minutes to find a match, but it'd be a higher quality match. It'd also allow pug drops some relief from dropping against fully stacked groups.

I don't think anyone would complain about having it as an option to only drop against other groups that'll put up a close fight.

Also, yeah, it would be super fun to have a smaller game size queue for 4v4s with mechs larger than in scouting mode. It may dilute the population a little bit, but I legitimately have more fun in scouting than I do in the 12v12 format.

Edited by Commoners, 31 December 2016 - 01:22 AM.


#100 Commander A9

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 10:38 AM

A batchall, eh? I like it. :P





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