92 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Commoners, on 23 December 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

The atlas in particular is suffering because brawling is almost totally out of the meta, and any of the mechs that it would normally lean on to back up its big push aren't being fielded in favor of mechs that can poke, reposition, and avoid engaging in brawling like the plague. Brawling is a team activity that fails horribly if the entire team doesn't play into it.

Lights and mediums are the brawlers in this game.... moreso lights. Heavies and assaults are just to scared to chip their pain to do it. Lights are regulated to short range weapons. Its really the only way to earn XP and C-bills.... which is part of the problem for lights...

I just assume every assault and heavy pilot will play poke and hide when we drop..... its literally all they do now. Kinda embarrassing. And folks want to know why lights are the only hard mode in the game.

[Y E O N N E]

Darian DelFord, on 23 December 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

This is because Long Range Weapons are just as effective at short range as they are long. For the atlas to do its thing.... it has to get close. But in its defense that is difficult in the current game climate. Why bring SPL's when LPL's are more effective and have much longer range

The Atlas can mount considerable long-range firepower, it just has to expose completely to use it. That's the real problem. People relegate it to short-range duties because it can't poke for sh*t.

[Karl Marlow]

The problem.is armor isn't what makes you tanky. At best it buys you a couple seconds. Speed is what let's you tank.

[Revis Volek]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

The Atlas can mount considerable long-range firepower, it just has to expose completely to use it. That's the real problem. People relegate it to short-range duties because it can't poke for sh*t.

Yes, hardpoint placement kills this mech in the poke game. But that doesnt mean it is helpless in other engagments, quite the opposite.

Is it the META mech to end all META MECHS, hell no! Its a great mech for in your face stuff though. Especially if you have a few mediums and heavies to help ya out once you hit the pack hard with those SRM's.


Put the biggest engine in the S, all the SRM4's with art, an ac 20 and 2 med lasers and profit. It runs 61 or so and can mitigate dmg fairly well IMO.

Edited by Revis Volek, 23 December 2016 - 10:51 AM.

[DoctorDetroit]

Revis Volek, on 23 December 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

Actually this season in MRBC i saw a few, and we (SA) run them in the 5th drop often.


So tell me more about comp stuff....


Its not a CW mech because CW is about all about that poke.

A few matches in division C, ah my mistake for not looking down the page that far. You are clearly an elite, well educated person who doesn't base his opinion on his feelz.

[Y E O N N E]

Revis Volek, on 23 December 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Yes, hardpoint placement kills this mech in the poke game. But that doesnt mean it is helpless in other engagments, quite the opposite.

Is it the META mech to end all META MECHS, hell no! Its a great mech for in your face stuff though. Especially if you have a few mediums and heavies to help ya out once you hit the pack hard with those SRM's.


Put the biggest engine in the S, all the SRM4's with art, an ac 20 and 2 med lasers and profit. It runs 61 or so and can mitigate dmg fairly well IMO.

That is literally the build I have on my S.

But I'm actually considering the others, like the Boar's Head and the K. They are not in the same league as the D-DC and S when it comes to the short range game.

[Revis Volek]

DoctorDetroit, on 23 December 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

A few matches in division C, ah my mistake for not looking down the page that far. You are clearly an elite, well educated person who doesn't base his opinion on his feelz.

Oh boy, we got a bad *** here.


And pray tell what comp team you play for sir?

[Jeronimo25]

adamts01, on 23 December 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Well that's not reality is it? I'll math you, how about that? Atlas, deals 71 spread damage at brawling range for 21 heat, actually a little more due to Ghost Heat on those 4xASRM6s, with a **** hair more HP. K3 and the marauder deal 60 pinpoint damage at sniper range for 30 heat from high mounts on a faster and more maneuverable chassis. If you can't see the clear winners then you need to lay off the paint chips. It's not a matter of playing it right, or working as a piece of the puzzle. The Atlas is flat out inferior, and statistics unarguably back that up. I don't go crazy over the Clan vs IS debate, but there are some fundamental problems with this game at this point. You can dance around the issue, humming and plugging your ears in denial, but that doesn't help anyone. Power creep is real, PGI uses it so sell mechs, and they don't even bother to throw newspaper on the floor after they **** on it. It's ****** up.

Ofcourse, Clans always had better tech than IS and it's painfully obvious here, i'm just saying that shitload of people blame machine for their lack of skill with it and rage over this without trying to learn how to use it or spend some time in mechlab to suit it to their combat preference. Also statistics say that once located by a competent team, Atlases and Kodiaks tends to die very fast when focused down because it's "Team based game".

Fobhopper, on 23 December 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

I would say the KGC is currently king of the IS assaults, dual AC20 or dual gauss, with plenty of tons to put in lasers or SRM's (My main KGC-000(L) is dual ac20 and 2 SRM6's and std 325 engine) and doesnt have such a tall profile. Honestly the only two good variants of the Atlas are the D-DC and the S. And you better hug mountains and walls until you get close enough to do anything. Even the BH is mediocre at best.
I have 6 atlas, 5 king crabs, and honestly you get a hell of a lot more bang for your buck with a KGC than you do AS7 (not that the AS7 are bad, its just the meta has changed so much since the old days of beta that the atlas is just outperformed and outpaced by so many other mechs in the assault class).

Friends dont let friends pilot an atlas or a warhawk. Either bring a KGC or a highlander (IIC as well) or maurader IIC.

I didn't said that Atlas is the best IS assault mech, i said it takes skills to use it well. As for King Crab it certaintly has lots of firepower and low profile but that doesn't do a jack **** to those lrm volleys on open maps like Alpine peaks and it's hitboxes are very problematic when you try to torso twist in a brawl ( it's side torsos are huge, not a very good thing in close range brawl). AS7-D-DC and AS7-S are best variants, i agree others are crap AS7-K especialy.
Honestly, all mechs hug mountains, buildings and walls because lrms and PPCs will ruin your day very fast regardless of the mech variant and class.
Personaly i don't care what my teammates are piloting as long as they can use it well. Atlases, King Crabs, Kodiaks, Battlemasters are good to have. Warhawks, Highlanders not so much (don't have opinion on Marauder IIC yet), just my personal opinion.

[Commoners]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

That is literally the build I have on my S.

But I'm actually considering the others, like the Boar's Head and the K. They are not in the same league as the D-DC and S when it comes to the short range game.

The boar's head is all about slamming 6 large lasers or 6 lpls and then bullying people with your armor/structure quirks. Instead of poking like the banshee or battlemaster it has to commit to leaving cover and try to chop off as many side torsos as it can while standing pretty much in the open before going back into cover to cool off. It plays much differently from the DDC and S in that it isn't a spearhead to get the rest of the team into a brawl, but it can trade pretty well against anyone who doesn't actively avoid being exposed to it.

The K is a garbage pile though.

Edited by Commoners, 23 December 2016 - 11:06 AM.

[DoctorDetroit]

Revis Volek, on 23 December 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Oh boy, we got a bad *** here.


And pray tell what comp team you play for sir?

Your flawless logic continues, I don't play mrbc so I cannot see what mechs the best teams used. You are a true miracle to behold.

[adamts01]

Commoners, on 23 December 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

the atlas is still king **** at brawling and can really tear into kodiaks if it manages to get into brawling range (which is usually the big problem.)

Not "usually the big problem," it's a rarity when it isn't the problem. It's just not the game we have at this point. That playstyle is dead.

Darian DelFord, on 23 December 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

I just assume every assault and heavy pilot will play poke and hide when we drop..... its literally all they do now. Kinda embarrassing.

Embarrassing for PGI. I don't blame the assaults one bit, not when every heavy can core them with a double tap.

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

The Atlas can mount considerable long-range firepower, it just has to expose completely to use it.

Not really though, low hardpoints aside, it just can't stack mid/long range weapons, not even enough to trade with heavies.

Jeronimo25, on 23 December 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

I didn't said that Atlas is the best IS assault mech, i said it takes skills to use it well.

Don't even start with that argument. A MLX takes skill to use well, that doesn't mean it's an even halfway decent option in this game.

[Felicitatem Parco]

It's weird, because I never play video games with the intention to get shot by the enemy as much as possible. I guess I don't play to Tank, I play to kill the enemy team.

[DoctorDetroit]

Prosperity Park, on 23 December 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

It's weird, because I never play video games with the intention to get shot by the enemy as much as possible. I guess I don't play to Tank, I play to kill the enemy team.

Which is why I imagine you do not pilot an Atlas. I think this discussion is more about taking an underperforming mech and giving it unique role to play in the game, so that there is a greater variety of strategies and mech choices.

[Y E O N N E]

adamts01, on 23 December 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Not really though, low hardpoints aside, it just can't stack mid/long range weapons, not even enough to trade with heavies.

Yes it can. 4x ERLL + Gauss is Assault-grade firepower. 5x or 6x LPL is assault-grade firepower. 3x PPC + Gauss is assault-grade firepower (though this one gets gimped by PGI's ghost heat...IS should be able to fire three of these without penalty to rival the Clan's 2Gauss+2PPC nonsense).

It can't bring those weapons to bare without taking undue fire before it can expose them, though. That's the problem.

[Revis Volek]

DoctorDetroit, on 23 December 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

Your flawless logic continues, I don't play mrbc so I cannot see what mechs the best teams used. You are a true miracle to behold.

Then why are you making assumptions on mech being there or not? You just admited you dont know anything about comp play.


Do you see how asinine you sound? No you dont because ego...


To reiterate, " X mechs are bad because i dont see them in comp, but i dont play comp, watch videos or even keep up with it"

Keep opening that mouth dude...its really taking you places.

Edited by Revis Volek, 23 December 2016 - 12:03 PM.

[roboPrancer]

I just bought the AS7 D-DC and I gotta say, it's everything i dreamed of. Not that it wont get ripped apart by a kodiak, but it's still a tanky 100 ton brawling mech.

Thats pretty much the definition of what it is, a classic. Just because it isn't a top tier comp mech doesn't mean it can't wreck **** in the right situation.

[Paigan]

DoctorDetroit, on 23 December 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Completely wrong here man. Your drop deck budget wont work. IS needs to equal clans, not zerg them in your imaginary clan rpg fiction. Quirks are the answer. They just need to be carefully used with the goal of creating more specialized roles for underperformers which the atlas is definitely classified as. You could give the atlas 2 to 3x it's structure quirks and people will still take it down, it will just be able to fill the tank role at a barely acceptable level.

From where do you get the dellusion that asymmetrical balance does not work?
Is 4 Zerglings vs. 1 Zealot wrong? No, it is not.
Is 1 Starship Trooper against 43543 Bugs wrong? No, it is not.
Is 4 Colonial Marines vs. 1 Predator wrong? No, it is not.

Asymmetrical balance in an asymmetrical designed conflict DOES work and it even is the only way to make it work properly.
It just has to be done right so that both sides require equal player counts.

In Battletech, this can be easily done by:
- Give an IS player more waves than a clan player has. 1 vs 1 player, but more "spare lives" for IS
- Give clans penalties of some sort if they don't minimize their fighting force.
- Give IS more tactical options like UAVs, artillery, consumables, etc.

There are a ton of ways to achieve asymmetrical balance.
The only thing that will NOT work is to magically quirk up some intentionally low tech unit to be on par with a high tech unit.
IN the long run, it ruins everything from consistent equipment behavior to understandable game mechanics for new players.

I would LOVE to play is when I have a real tactical, characterist set of options to "play dirty" and stomp clan mechs despite their technological superiority.

I think the actual problem of non-argumentions like yours is that you have complexes towards the clan lore and you MUST have that one single IS mech that can beat every clan mech on a technological level.
My advice is to seek psychological help for that.

[Revis Volek]

Paigan, on 23 December 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

From where do you get the dellusion that asymmetrical balance does not work?
Is 4 Zerglings vs. 1 Zealot wrong? No, it is not.
Is 1 Starship Trooper against 43543 Bugs wrong? No, it is not.
Is 4 Colonial Marines vs. 1 Predator wrong? No, it is not.

Asymmetrical balance in an asymmetrical designed conflict DOES work and it even is the only way to make it work properly.
It just has to be done right so that both sides require equal player counts.

In Battletech, this can be easily done by:
- Give an IS player more waves than a clan player has. 1 vs 1 player, but more "spare lives" for IS
- Give clans penalties of some sort if they don't minimize their fighting force.
- Give IS more tactical options like UAVs, artillery, consumables, etc.

There are a ton of ways to achieve asymmetrical balance.
The only thing that will NOT work is to magically quirk up some intentionally low tech unit to be on par with a high tech unit.
IN the long run, it ruins everything from consistent equipment behavior to understandable game mechanics for new players.

I would LOVE to play is when I have a real tactical, characterist set of options to "play dirty" and stomp clan mechs despite their technological superiority.

I think the actual problem of non-argumentions like yours is that you have complexes towards the clan lore and you MUST have that one single IS mech that can beat every clan mech on a technological level.
My advice is to seek psychological help for that.

No one wants to be cannon fodder....

The one thing you seem to miss is that when a Zergling dies you the COMMANDER are still alive. If you died 5 times in a match to the clans none or zero i dont think you would be singing the same tune.


Expendable troops getting smoked however, par for the course.

[Amsro]

When I'm tired of leveling mechs I jump into a handful of comfy mechs and one of them happens to be an Atlas.

The Boars Head, currently with XL400 + 5xLPL.

No problems to be seen in this atlas.

Edited by Amsro, 23 December 2016 - 01:07 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Amsro, on 23 December 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

When I'm tired of leveling mechs I jump into a handful of comfy mechs and one of them happens to be an Atlas.

The Boars Head, currently with XL400 + 5xLPL.

No problems to be seen in this atlas.

IMO XL atlas is a waste of the quirks...

Can take you out with a alpha or two, defeats the purpose of the mech and its quirks but thats just me.


I also dont own a BH so maybe im full of sh*t lol.