297 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

NRP, on 24 December 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

So, a thread complaining about people complaining about LRMs. Well done.

Seriously, does one really have nothing better to do?

Bombast, on 24 December 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Not really. Just twiddling my thumbs, waiting for people to come over for Christmas Eve dinner.

Do you have anything better to do then make a comment complaining about a thread complaining about people who complain about LRMs? Should we all complain about the this comment, which is complaining about a comment complaining about a thread complaining about people who complain about LRMs? How far deep into this spiral do we get before my guests arrive?

[Tarogato]

Tycho von Gagern, on 24 December 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Sounds like somebody's elite snipah Kodiak got caught poopy-poking from behind the wrong rock.

No, but I've been legged entirely too many times while trying to play my lights and Vipers as flanking brawlers. Try to do something interesting and daring? Think you can win a 1v1? Nope, LRMs start raining on your parade, and because you're a fast mech and LRMs track slowly, they always hit your legs and you don't stand a chance. Even if you have ECM, if you go in to engage somebody solo, chances are they fart up a UAV and you end up getting rekt by LRMs. It's complete and utter bullshite.

Like this:






The game would be a lot more enjoyable without this shjt in it. Same with streaks, whose sole reason to exist is to ruin the fun for light pilots. They're not even effective against heavier mediums on up, so using them is effectively gimping yourself just so you can ruin some poor light pilot's day, as if light pilots don't have enough against their odds as it is already. It's complete buIlshit. Locks on weapons are literally anti-fun guns, there is really no counter for them in unorganised play (solo queue.) They're cheap, and no-skill. Noobtubes.

Edited by Tarogato, 24 December 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[RestosIII]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

No, but I've been legged entirely too many times while trying to play my lights and Vipers as flanking brawlers. Try to do something interesting and daring? Think you can win a 1v1? Nope, LRMs start raining on your parade, and because you're a fast mech and LRMs track slowly, they always hit your legs and you don't stand a chance. Even if you have ECM, if you go in to engage somebody solo, chances are they fart up a UAV and you end up getting rekt by LRMs. It's complete and utter bullshite.

Like this:

Don't run to where the buildings would block the LRMs or anything. Oh no. And definitely don't run perpendicular to the LRMs so they smack into the dirt. Those are actual things that stop missiles from being dangerous, and we can't have actual tactics. No, just call the weapon system OP and bad for the game.

[Tarogato]

RestosIII, on 24 December 2016 - 08:26 PM, said:

Don't run to where the buildings would block the LRMs or anything. Oh no. And definitely don't run perpendicular to the LRMs so they smack into the dirt. Those are actual things that stop missiles from being dangerous, and we can't have actual tactics. No, just call the weapon system OP and bad for the game.

What do you think I did? As soon as I got locked on, I ran around the building for cover. But they still hit me, so tried to make a break for the water where that ridge/platform edge would protect me, but I didn't make it in time (also it wasn't as tall as I thought it would be.) It was buIlshit and there was nothing I could do the moment they got a lock on me (presumably the Griffin threw up a UAV.)

If it weren't for the LRMs, I could have kited the Griffin away and fought him with my teammate before his teammates arrived. But because they had LRMs, they didn't have to arrive. They just fired their noobtubes into the sky and got automatic hits on my legs, even between buildings while I'm juking around over 130 kph.

Edited by Tarogato, 24 December 2016 - 08:36 PM.

[RestosIII]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

What do you think I did? As soon as I got locked on, I ran around the building for cover. But they still hit me, so tried to make a break for the water where that ridge/platform edge would protect me, but I didn't make it in time. It was buIlshit and there was nothing I could do the moment they got a lock on me (presumably the Griffin threw up a UAV.)

It was obviously LRMs from heavies and assaults that were at medium-close range due to the very small arc. If you had just gone right, the tower on that building would have stopped the LRMs. And when you ran towards the cliff edge, you went parallel with the LRMs, which always makes LRMs smack into your legs. If you had gone straight right or straight left, they would have hit the dirt most likely. That was entirely on you man, not LRMs being unfair.

[Tarogato]

RestosIII, on 24 December 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

It was obviously LRMs from heavies and assaults that were at medium-close range due to the very small arc. If you had just gone right, the tower on that building would have stopped the LRMs. And when you ran towards the cliff edge, you went parallel with the LRMs, which always makes LRMs smack into your legs. If you had gone straight right or straight left, they would have hit the dirt most likely. That was entirely on you man, not LRMs being unfair.

Then you haven't played lights as much as I have. In fact, I know I have played lights probably four times as much as you. It doesn't matter how good you think you are or how insightful you are. Sometimes you just get rekt because some scrubs could press R+M1 and didn't have to actually aim or even move their mech. I'd rather actually fight against aimbotters than these worthless ****s.

Sure you can avoid it, but you have to play like a puѕѕy f***** coward if you want to avoid getting LRM'd, it takes all of the fun out of playing the game. You can tell this really piѕѕes me off because I feel compelled to hit reply before actually finishing my post, and I have to keep editing in how much it piѕѕes me off. =P

Edited by Tarogato, 24 December 2016 - 08:45 PM.

[RestosIII]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Then you haven't played lights as much as I have. In fact, I know I have played lights probably four times as much as you. It doesn't matter how good you think you are or how insightful you are. Sometimes you just get rekt because some scrubs could press R+M1 and didn't have to actually aim or even move their mech. I'd rather actually fight against aimbotters than these worthless ****s.

Sure you can avoid it, but you have to play like a puѕѕy f***** coward if you want to avoid getting LRM'd, it takes all of the fun out of playing the game. You can tell this really piѕѕes me off because I feel compelled to hit reply before actually finishing my post, and I have to keep editing in how much it piѕѕes me off. =P

If by "***** ******* coward", you mean "cautious and not running in a specific way that makes LRMs smack your legs", then yes, you do. That's how you play the game and not be bad. Your hyperbole about preferring to fight aimbotters is appreciated as well. Telling someone "I've played more than you, STFU", and not listening to advice on how you could have survived isn't the best plan either. I'm a self-professed potato, but the one thing I can manage is not getting smacked down by LRMs. If you get the incoming missile warning, head for something tall and never, ever run directly away from them. If at all possible, always run perpendicular to them, since they have more trouble adjusting to hit you, won't all smack into your legs, and won't hit you if the LRM user lost lock like they will if you're running straight away.

Or you could ignore my advice and claim LRMs are OP, or I haven't played enough to know what the hell I'm talking about. That works too, apparently.

[JudauAshta]

lrms are to mwo like arty is to wot.

hard to rework them, but they still remain very low risk high reward weapons.

thankfully they have been nerfed so they don't break the game anymore.

[Tarogato]

RestosIII, on 24 December 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

If by "***** ******* coward", you mean "cautious and not running in a specific way that makes LRMs smack your legs", then yes, you do. That's how you play the game and not be bad. Your hyperbole about preferring to fight aimbotters is appreciated as well. Telling someone "I've played more than you, STFU", and not listening to advice on how you could have survived isn't the best plan either. I'm a self-professed potato, but the one thing I can manage is not getting smacked down by LRMs. If you get the incoming missile warning, head for something tall and never, ever run directly away from them. If at all possible, always run perpendicular to them, since they have more trouble adjusting to hit you, won't all smack into your legs, and won't hit you if the LRM user lost lock like they will if you're running straight away.

Or you could ignore my advice and claim LRMs are OP, or I haven't played enough to know what the hell I'm talking about. That works too, apparently.

Again, you keep pretending like I had some magical solution that would not have gotten me lurmed to death in the situation I posted. There was a tall building right there. I passed behind it and still got hit by LRMs. I couldn't stop moving and wait for the rain to stop, because I had a Griffin hot on my trail and it would have given the enemy lance that I knew was nearby the time they needed to about face and come hunt me down. If it were not for the LRMs, I could have gotten away or at least killed the surprise Griffin for my trouble, even if I died for it (winning or losing that 1v1 would have completely been in my control, and I would have nothing to blame but myself) I would have been free to handle the situation and everything would have been under my control, for better or for worse. But instead... they had LRMs. So I really didn't have any options other than to get rekt, because all they had to do was press R and M1. They didn't have to come fight me, they didn't have to have line of sight, they didn't even have to aim, they just had to know I existed in order to ruin my day.

Is your idea of a fun game just sitting around for the first 4-5 minutes of every match waiting for LRM and Streakboats to die or get preoccuppied with somebody else? Or would you rather get in on some action, harass some flanks, and have fun utilising your speed and mobility? Because the former is what LRMs do to this game. It's not unlike what artillery does in World of Tanks - instead of flushing you out of camping spots, it forces you to hide away in camping spots so you don't get nuked while trying to move from cover to cover. Try to flank even one single mech? As soon as his presses R, you have to play like a coward because know he has the support of two or more allies toting noobtubes. Allies that don't even have to be nearby. And now you have to hug walls (if they're even there), cutting out the majority of your freedom and completely forcing your hand. It's not cool. And you wonder why people complain that lights and mediums have no proper role in this game because heavies do their job better? This is a part of it.

Use tactics to counter LRMs? It's the other way around. LRMs counter tactical play by being cheap and easy to use. And the worst part is that against organised players, they are pretty much useless. But in solo queue, you can't organise a counter. You just had to settle with playing like a coward and not bringing attention to yourself. And people wonder why solo queue is dominated by this passive pokefest meta...

Edited by Tarogato, 24 December 2016 - 09:14 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

It's not unlike what artillery does in World of Tanks - instead of flushing you out of camping spots, it forces you to hide away in camping spots so you don't get nuked while trying to move from cover to cover.

Interestingly, the big, long-range PPFLD volleys that the KDK and Heavy-class pop-tarts can sling have the exact same effect.

I hate it.

[FupDup]

...But seriously though. LRMs in their current state are a poorly designed weapon system that are very strongly "feast or famine" and highly dependent on the map, enemy team, and your own team. Trying to buff or nerf them with their current mechanics will lead to a pendulum swing where they either suck popsickles or create pure chaos (as seen in Lurmageddon episodes of the distant past).

A rework that makes them more consistent across the board and also require aiming (meaning you have to point at a specific hitbox rather than a huge red outline) would make Lurms more fun for both the shooter and the target. Velocity is going to be important here so that they live up to their name of "long" range missiles. Another thing to consider would be making direct fire Lurms (exposed shooter) much stronger than indirect fire (probably using spread/tracking/etc) due to the inherent risk of sticking your neck out. You should also be able to get missile locks on any target within LOS, with ECM simply making the lock much slower to get rather than blocking it outright.

Streaks frankly need a similar rework, except even more so since they're just a crutch that exists to punish players for choosing the play the weakest class in the game.

Edited by FupDup, 24 December 2016 - 09:17 PM.

[RestosIII]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

Again, you keep pretending like I had some magical solution that would not have gotten me lurmed to death in the situation I posted. There was a tall building right there. I passed behind it and still got hit by LRMs. I couldn't stop moving and wait for the rain to stop, because I had a Griffin hot on my trail and it would have given the enemy lance that I knew was nearby the time they needed to about face and come hunt me down. If it were not for the LRMs, I could have gotten away or at least killed the surprise Griffin for my trouble. I would have been free to handle the situation and everything would have been under my control, for better or for worse. But instead... they had LRMs. So I really didn't have any options other than to get rekt, because all they had to do was press R and M1. They didn't have to come fight me, they didn't have to have line of sight, they didn't even have to aim, they just had to know I existed in order to ruin my day.

Yes, you did run behind the building. And the LRMs stopped for a second before you ran past the large tower and only had the building that was specifically your height inbetween you and the LRMs. If you had turned right, and kept that building or the giant rock outcropping between you and them, they would have kept smacking solid objects instead of you. But, since you decided to keep going, you should have run directly off the cliff face, instead of going the long route and trying to run directly away from the LRMs. You did have options, you just didn't take them. I'd normally chalk it up as just being a regular ****-up due to panicking, since it happens to everyone. But talking about how LRMs are OP, and that there was "nothing I could do"? That's just willfully refusing to realize that you could have done better. Just... try to not run directly away from LRMs, and take the shortest route possible to cover. It will help you a lot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Sure you can avoid it, but you have to play like a puѕѕy f***** coward if you want to avoid getting LRM'd, it takes all of the fun out of playing the game.

Fun...is subjective.

Some of us find the whole standing in the open slugfest thing pretty damn boring, too.

JudauAshta, on 24 December 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

lrms are to mwo like arty is to wot.

hard to rework them, but they still remain very low risk high reward weapons.

thankfully they have been nerfed so they don't break the game anymore.

at tier 5 maybe.

Tier 1 and 2? Try very low reward weapons.

[Tarogato]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 December 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

Interestingly, the big, long-range PPFLD volleys that the KDK and Heavy-class pop-tarts can sling have the exact same effect.

I hate it.

The poptarts (especially the SMN high mounts these days) can be pretty infuriating, I must admit. But I take solace in the fact that they have to see me to hit me, and their aim has to be spot on for it to actually matter. They actually exhibit some semblance of you know... skill. =P

The KDK... I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. I haven't played it an actual match since the gauss explosion nerf to 100%. But in 1v1's it felt really glass cannon (and it always has been somewhat vulnerable.) So getting rekt by those doesn't bother me - it makes me feel outplayed, not cheated.

[FuhNuGi]

To every system, there is a counter.

If you are in a light getting torn up by LRMs... figure it out. If they are always hitting you, you are not making use of the speed of a light and the angle of your run to make the missiles track behind you... getting hit in the legs says you are either running almost directly away from the launcher and maybe too slow.

Now to the guy who is bummed that LRMs make it "not fun", do you think the "light mech run behind the assault mech in circles" is the fun game everyone comes here to play?
Balance.
Just like you got a thing going, so do the other players. Sometimes it is PPCs, LRMs, dakka... whatever... almost any weapon system is always going to feel OP when you just got hit with it by a person who knows how to use it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

Use tactics to counter LRMs? It's the other way around. LRMs counter tactical play by being cheap and easy to use. And the worst part is that against organised players, they are pretty much useless. But in solo queue, you can't organise a counter. You just had to settle with playing like a coward and not bringing attention to yourself. And people wonder why solo queue is dominated by this passive pokefest meta...

As someone who has been playing as long as you...that is utter bullcrap.

I play mostly Mediums and Heavies, 99% in QP.... never waste tonnage on AMS, don't really like any of the ECM carriers, and am too lazy/space poor to add radar derp to all my Gundams.

And I almost never get rekt by LRMs. QP has a lot of flaws, and you got a lot of potatoes, but it's not like you need 11 other guys to counter LRMs.

Just admit your twitch skill bias and carry on. But just STAHPIT with the BS, bruh.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 December 2016 - 09:22 PM.

[Tarogato]

RestosIII, on 24 December 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

instead of going the long route and trying to run directly away from the LRMs.

FuhNuGi, on 24 December 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

If they are always hitting you, you are not making use of the speed of a light and the angle of your run to make the missiles track behind you... getting hit in the legs says you are either running almost directly away from the launcher and maybe too slow.

RestosIII, on 24 December 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

If you get the incoming missile warning, head for something tall and never, ever run directly away from them. If at all possible, always run perpendicular to them, since they have more trouble adjusting to hit you, won't all smack into your legs, and won't hit you if the LRM user lost lock like they will if you're running straight away.

This is not factually based advice. LRMs tend to leg lights, period. I have not tested while running straight *toward* LRM volleys, but in cases where you are running perpendicular, the LRMs will leg you if they are permitted to maintain lock.

Proof:







The only mech that I believe can legitimately outrun LRMs perpendicularly is the Locust and Commando (and I tested this back when speed tweak was still 10%, so I'm not sure if it's even still true).

[RestosIII]

Tarogato, on 24 December 2016 - 10:10 PM, said:

This is not factually based advice. LRMs tend to leg lights, period. I have not tested while running straight *toward* LRM volleys, but in cases where you are running perpendicular, the LRMs will leg you if they are permitted to maintain lock.

Proof:







The only mech that I believe can legitimately outrun LRMs perpendicularly is the Locust and Commando (and I tested this back when speed tweak was still 10%, so I'm not sure if it's even still true).

I never said it would completely negate them to just run perpendicular, but it definitely lowers how many smack your legs specifically compared to running directly away like you were.

[Novakaine]

Ya know I had ta do it.

RestosIII, on 24 December 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

I never said it would completely negate them to just run perpendicular, but it definitely lowers how many smack your legs specifically compared to running directly away like you were.

Naw they turn into tiny land torpedo's and chase ya.
I love lurmin lights sooooooo satisfying!

[Snazzy Dragon]

Novakaine, on 24 December 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

Ya know I had ta do it.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1ccbe3632fb03ee