70 replies to this topic

[Grus]

Naglinator, on 26 January 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

Pretty sure it is the otherway around for you.

Cough* https://imgur.com/a/UqV0G Cough*

[ANOM O MECH]

KingCobra, on 26 December 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Jeff said (And Nehebkau, it is almost as if you read my post from yesterday in the "Dear 12-Man Clan Stompballs," topic.... In my opinion, forcing players to group up with atleast one other player before being allowed to enter in to FW will remove a certain number of the FW IS PUGs from that game mode that they should not be playing in the first place. )
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And I say this is total BS!!! MWO players solo/casual/pugs should be able to play all game modes in solo or CW/FP PGI is in this game to make money retain new players and have there gamers have fun .

If teams want end game hard mode competition content I say great give them there own team VS team only in CW?FP game mode plus private play and a global Recruiting lobby.

I still don't understand after 4 years how teams can think CW/FP is hard core mode end game content when all they want to do is Seal Club new players casual players and PUGS?

And personally I think PGI should do as this OP and many others want a split of the CW/FP game queues MWO players would get the best of all that PGI and MWO has to offer.

Right now CW is open to everyone.

No matchmaker or restrictions.

Teams already have the end game hard mode. You don't understand because you want CW to be just like quick play. You don't understand because you refuse to and keep repeating nonsense and lies such as teams wanting to only stomp pugs.

Last night we faced one pug group and finished with two against Evil.

The only option here is to limit pugs to fill groups, since the population is low. This mode whether you like it or not, is the mode that is for groups.

[naterist]

tker 669, on 26 January 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

The only option here is to limit pugs to fill groups, since the population is low. This mode whether you like it or not, is the mode that is for groups.

i like that option, we should do that.

edit: why TF has that not happened yet? c'mon pgi, get on that ****.

Edited by naterist, 26 January 2018 - 01:17 PM.

[Grus]

naterist, on 26 January 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

i like that option, we should do that.

edit: why TF has that not happened yet? c'mon pgi, get on that ****.

could work if the MM put the best viable pug into said group que if needed to fill out 12man. otherwise solo.

[naterist]

Grus, on 26 January 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

could work if the MM put the best viable pug into said group que if needed to fill out 12man. otherwise solo.

i say f that, there doesnt need to be anything specific with matching pugs or anything.

if theres 12 solo players in line to que, they shouldnt form a 12 man opposition force, they would need to wait until there is, say, an 8 man team in que, and after that 8 man ques there is only 8 pugs looking for a group. then those 8 have to wait for another group to que up for their chance to be filler. the quality of the pug is inconsequential, the fact that they can not form their own opfor to an opposing group is the saving grace. its like splitting the ques, without affecting que time for groups. it also gives solos some help since they will often have a competent group that they can listen to (whether they choose to or not is a different matter, but the option is there none the less). this gives every solo at least a fighting shot against orgonized opposition, and removes the very large amount of pug stomping. it doubles as a superb detterent against faction stacking, as any side that does not have teams on it will simply lead to ghost drops for days.

tl:dr- it would esentially be a working split que, without the downsides of a split, will end most pugstomps, and will force pop balance. it seems to work on all levels.

also, the pugstomping aspect seems to have led to many units switching to GQ, as pug stomps are occasionally quite boring to many people. this mechanic, by eliminating most pug stomps, would give some incentive for those particular units to come back.

[Eirik Eriksson]

tker 669, on 26 January 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

The only option here is to limit pugs to fill groups, since the population is low. This mode whether you like it or not, is the mode that is for groups.

So, if the population is low, we need to limit it even further...

Let me think about that one for a month or two, maybe it will one day make sence, if I think about long enough...

[ANOM O MECH]

Slow Speed, on 26 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

So, if the population is low, we need to limit it even further...

Let me think about that one for a month or two, maybe it will one day make sence, if I think about long enough...

Well it makes about as much sense as banning groups from the mode...

You're right though, can't afford to separate them.

So hopefully those roughing it out will get better, and the others find a unit or group to drop with.

The rest who want to make it quick play will hopefully go away and play quick play.

[A Headless Chicken]

Hey guys, just wondering, if we merged all the weekly　”ｓｅｐｅｒａｔｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｑｕｅｕｅｓ！” threads into a single one, would we hit 500 pages yet?

Also, don't join endgame content when you're not prepared - it's like saying I WANT TO FIGHT A LEVEL 80 BOSS at level 20. Either get yourself to 80 or get 11 more 20s. The problem seems to be how people are more fixated on whining rather than going to ash's training offer thread to actually find mates, get build critique and actually skill up.

[MischiefSC]

The MM actually tries to put pugs with groups;

It moves premades to the 'front of the line' so that if there's 12 pugs in queue and a 5man shows up and the lobby isn't created yet it'll take the 5man and 7 pugs and that'll be the next lobby.

The problem is that most the pugs are so terrible and so unwilling to play as a team that, since you're actually on a team no matter what you do (you know. 4v4 or 12v12, every mode every game) nobody wants to play with them if at all possible. It's like swimming with a stone around your neck.

So teams have quit dropping in less than 12s if at all possible; you build a premade 12 or at least 8 or 10 before you drop because otherwise you'll be fighting to keep your team from being incredibly stupid harder than you'll be fighting the enemy team.

The brutal truth is that most the people that other people would want to play with are, well, in teams already, save for new players who shouldn't be in FW. There's a sizeable segment of the pug population that's not significantly better than having a disco and can potentially be worse (messing up strategy, etc). So people take pains to avoid them.

Hence why the 'if you don't make FW more fun for us we'll quit!' threat is greeted with 'Don't be a tease. Please, dear god, we beg you - go back to QP'.

The response to which currently is 'I mean it! We'll leave! And we won't come back! YOU'LL RUE THE DAY! RUE IT!'

Okay. I have my 'rue the day' paint scheme all ready and everything. Woe is us. Now please, quit teasing and GTFO.

We already have QP. It's there to be a solo yolo in. Expectations are so low that most people won't even report you for just AFKing a whole match. You're *expected* to be worthless. That's expectations almost so low that a lot of the people complaining about 'ZOMG TEAMWORK OP LIKE HAXX UNFAIR' can almost meet them. Why is it some terrible, unreasonable thing to say that since, you know, every match is a team of 12 that in FW the bare minimum expectation, the absolute minimum, is some effort at teamwork?

[Asym]

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

The MM actually tries to put pugs with groups;

It moves premades to the 'front of the line' so that if there's 12 pugs in queue and a 5man shows up and the lobby isn't created yet it'll take the 5man and 7 pugs and that'll be the next lobby.

The problem is that most the pugs are so terrible and so unwilling to play as a team that, since you're actually on a team no matter what you do (you know. 4v4 or 12v12, every mode every game) nobody wants to play with them if at all possible. It's like swimming with a stone around your neck.

So teams have quit dropping in less than 12s if at all possible; you build a premade 12 or at least 8 or 10 before you drop because otherwise you'll be fighting to keep your team from being incredibly stupid harder than you'll be fighting the enemy team.

The brutal truth is that most the people that other people would want to play with are, well, in teams already, save for new players who shouldn't be in FW. There's a sizeable segment of the pug population that's not significantly better than having a disco and can potentially be worse (messing up strategy, etc). So people take pains to avoid them.

Hence why the 'if you don't make FW more fun for us we'll quit!' threat is greeted with 'Don't be a tease. Please, dear god, we beg you - go back to QP'.

The response to which currently is 'I mean it! We'll leave! And we won't come back! YOU'LL RUE THE DAY! RUE IT!'

Okay. I have my 'rue the day' paint scheme all ready and everything. Woe is us. Now please, quit teasing and GTFO.

We already have QP. It's there to be a solo yolo in. Expectations are so low that most people won't even report you for just AFKing a whole match. You're *expected* to be worthless. That's expectations almost so low that a lot of the people complaining about 'ZOMG TEAMWORK OP LIKE HAXX UNFAIR' can almost meet them. Why is it some terrible, unreasonable thing to say that since, you know, every match is a team of 12 that in FW the bare minimum expectation, the absolute minimum, is some effort at teamwork?

OK, I've read this segment a couple of times now and I think I get it that you are frustrated.

If I dropped with you, on your team's teamspeak or any other team's teamspeak, I would at least listen to the directions a caller gave and do my best to "participate in a team manner" , BUT, I am not a comp player with a drop deck of meta's and your concepts of strategy revolve around "the same old patterns used over and over again" without any deviation; of which, I jave no knowledge of... And, to make matters worse, at some point, if you'all are successful, "let the seal clubbing begin !!!" is the routine and I get to hear all of the anti-social behaviors for several minutes..... How do I know this as a fact: because I have listened and done what you and many said I should do: I asked to drop and participated in your DS or TS and saw, first hand, over a dozen or so teams, this is what occurs in all sorts of variations: some gentle and some radically anti-social.... Thank you for letting me drop to all those elite pilots who have offered BUT, remember, noobs then get to "see" the inner workhings of elite teams and their behaviors.... I was TK one night when I refused to and tried to intervene in a spawn point farming exercise by a well known team. Told a dozen times "why don't you just AFK cause we "don't need you".... and on and on......

I joined a team then, a good group of pilots. We practiced and ran trials and dropped as 12 man teams. That lasted till just after the Skill Tree change and those very talented pilots left MWO full time. Never dropped again as a team. And now, only drop as cells of 2 or 4 for events or to master a new mech they bought..... WHY? Because even they just couldn't stand the meta and radical expolitation FP has become... You pushed it too much, too far and it became, the game itself, so out-of-control they left..... we now drop in another game as a team and are having fun.....!!! We GTFO MischiefSC, about 84 of us; and, we are not alone since we run into other MWO "teams" and they GTFO...... Now, is GTFO working for you? Is the game so much better now less just over 220 pilots I know of??? Will Solaris save you and your ilk when now, you have to fight 1x1/2x2 against yourselves??? GTFO is a lose-lose equation in a ultra small niche market....

I'd like to drop with your team and I'd honestly report to this forum what I think after a couple of FP matches... Maybe, your ilk as a bastion of hope in the morass of depradation and game failure... Let me know.

[justcallme A S H]

What on earth did I just read?

Clearly 7 degree's needed. One of those is in the use of the English language.

[r4zen]

Asym, on 27 January 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

I'd like to drop with your team and I'd honestly report to this forum what I think after a couple of FP matches... Maybe, your ilk as a bastion of hope in the morass of depradation and game failure... Let me know.

whoa slow down, put the fedora away m'lady

[Asym]

Soft rant I guess; same frsutrations everyone faces when the game they like Ooopsses and stalls. We all miss playing FP and MWO in general.... Not sure what the 7 degrees is and I'm pretty sure my English isn't too bad (since Spell Check doesn't work in MWO with my PC settings - apoloiges for misspellings.)

I am serious about experiencing a "good FP" event and team. I've only Scouted these past several months.

[Vxheous]

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

The problem is that most the pugs are so terrible and so unwilling to play as a team that, since you're actually on a team no matter what you do (you know. 4v4 or 12v12, every mode every game) nobody wants to play with them if at all possible. It's like swimming with a stone around your neck.

I can't drop in FP with more than 4 in a group, or it becomes ridiculously easy and boring. Even then, 4 is usually enough to beat most of the 8 mans out there apart from the random large group of gen rushing cyclops x2 decks.

What I really can't stand though is the random scrub that argues with me on how to play FP when my group of 3-4 is doing the bulk of the lifting. They can't just STFU and be thankful that they're not getting farmed by that 8 man on the other side.

Example: Mr. 299 damage, please stop trying to tell us how to play.

Edited by Vxheous, 27 January 2018 - 11:38 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Asym, on 27 January 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

OK, I've read this segment a couple of times now and I think I get it that you are frustrated.

If I dropped with you, on your team's teamspeak or any other team's teamspeak, I would at least listen to the directions a caller gave and do my best to "participate in a team manner" , BUT, I am not a comp player with a drop deck of meta's and your concepts of strategy revolve around "the same old patterns used over and over again" without any deviation; of which, I jave no knowledge of... And, to make matters worse, at some point, if you'all are successful, "let the seal clubbing begin !!!" is the routine and I get to hear all of the anti-social behaviors for several minutes..... How do I know this as a fact: because I have listened and done what you and many said I should do: I asked to drop and participated in your DS or TS and saw, first hand, over a dozen or so teams, this is what occurs in all sorts of variations: some gentle and some radically anti-social.... Thank you for letting me drop to all those elite pilots who have offered BUT, remember, noobs then get to "see" the inner workhings of elite teams and their behaviors.... I was TK one night when I refused to and tried to intervene in a spawn point farming exercise by a well known team. Told a dozen times "why don't you just AFK cause we "don't need you".... and on and on......

I joined a team then, a good group of pilots. We practiced and ran trials and dropped as 12 man teams. That lasted till just after the Skill Tree change and those very talented pilots left MWO full time. Never dropped again as a team. And now, only drop as cells of 2 or 4 for events or to master a new mech they bought..... WHY? Because even they just couldn't stand the meta and radical expolitation FP has become... You pushed it too much, too far and it became, the game itself, so out-of-control they left..... we now drop in another game as a team and are having fun.....!!! We GTFO MischiefSC, about 84 of us; and, we are not alone since we run into other MWO "teams" and they GTFO...... Now, is GTFO working for you? Is the game so much better now less just over 220 pilots I know of??? Will Solaris save you and your ilk when now, you have to fight 1x1/2x2 against yourselves??? GTFO is a lose-lose equation in a ultra small niche market....

I'd like to drop with your team and I'd honestly report to this forum what I think after a couple of FP matches... Maybe, your ilk as a bastion of hope in the morass of depradation and game failure... Let me know.

People tend to think the whole world works exactly like what they see. The pugs you're talking about are a tiny handful of the population, just one that's very disruptive for everyone else.

If you listen to the calls, try to take a decent deck and try to stick with your team then good on you. You're playing FW like you're supposed to. Being in a premade helps but, again, teamwork doesn't require TS.

The problem is that you're dropping with other pugs who do NOT do that. Units don't want to drop with them either. Those guys? They can GTFO. Literally if all pugs played like you did you'd get stomped very rarely; about as often as every other 12man does. A bit more as you're lacking some synergy but most units don't have that either.

Anyone and everyone can come drop with KCom. We invite pugs into the premade regularly when we drop in less than 12 and one of the pugs does a good job. Not as in they put up 3k damage or something but they listened and stuck with the team and pulled their weight and tried to follow the call. All we ask is that they behave politely in TS and if someone with KCom tags shows up they're willing to make room in the group.

I DO WUT I WANT pugs are poison in the well. What you don't get is they screw you far more than they screw us because we, by making groups, have ways to avoid them. You're stuck with them regularly and they're so toxic that nobody in pug teams even bothers trying to call drops.

When I pugged in FW in FW 1, 2 and 3 I called every drop unless someone else was. Every single drop. It was incredibly rare that anyone DIDN'T try to go with the calls or communicate. Not everyone is a drop caller but at the time just about everyone was willing to follow a drop.

Time and population drain for various reasons has settled players out. Most of those who do want to play with teamwork have ended up in teams. You really should - it would change your enjoyment of the game drastically. Yes yes, too much trouble, no mic, whatever. We all made those excuses too. 22AL (22nd Argyle Lancers) was my first unit. Awesome guys, great people. I played with them for years without ever having a mic. They still tease me about it when we hang out; wicm still says I'm actually an AI and the voice is fake. It's not work being in a unit. It's less work than pugging. You have a place you go and consistently people who seek you out to play and help you when you want it. If you don't, then just drop in pugs and if someone messages you say 'I'm just pugging today'. Boom. Done. That's it. Because we all do it.

That segue aside, most people who are good with teamwork are in units. A handful of pugs who are good with teamwork still pug. Otherwise it's the dedicated terribad pugs who want FW rewards just for showing up and want everyone who's better than them segregated out so they can pretend they're winners without having to, you know. Earn a win.

Those guys? It's not KCom or MS or BCMC or even EVIL that's ruining your FW experience. It's them. They are literally why your pug team gets rolled. It's why all of the vet players say 'we used to beat units as pugs all the time'. It's because we did - because most pugs were like you and that's good enough to beat most teams almost half the time. I pugged with just over a 1.0 w/l in FW 1 and 2.

Get rid of the **** pugs. Kick them back to QP. If they want to play in FW make them group up. The rest of you, FFS come group up. We'd love to play with you. Don't care if you have no mic. Just listen, go where we go shoot who we shoot. It's good fun.

[KingCobra]

MischiefSC, on 27 January 2018 - 08:43 PM, said:

People tend to think the whole world works exactly like what they see. The pugs you're talking about are a tiny handful of the population, just one that's very disruptive for everyone else.

If you listen to the calls, try to take a decent deck and try to stick with your team then good on you. You're playing FW like you're supposed to. Being in a premade helps but, again, teamwork doesn't require TS.

The problem is that you're dropping with other pugs who do NOT do that. Units don't want to drop with them either. Those guys? They can GTFO. Literally if all pugs played like you did you'd get stomped very rarely; about as often as every other 12man does. A bit more as you're lacking some synergy but most units don't have that either.

Anyone and everyone can come drop with KCom. We invite pugs into the premade regularly when we drop in less than 12 and one of the pugs does a good job. Not as in they put up 3k damage or something but they listened and stuck with the team and pulled their weight and tried to follow the call. All we ask is that they behave politely in TS and if someone with KCom tags shows up they're willing to make room in the group.

I DO WUT I WANT pugs are poison in the well. What you don't get is they screw you far more than they screw us because we, by making groups, have ways to avoid them. You're stuck with them regularly and they're so toxic that nobody in pug teams even bothers trying to call drops.

When I pugged in FW in FW 1, 2 and 3 I called every drop unless someone else was. Every single drop. It was incredibly rare that anyone DIDN'T try to go with the calls or communicate. Not everyone is a drop caller but at the time just about everyone was willing to follow a drop.

Time and population drain for various reasons has settled players out. Most of those who do want to play with teamwork have ended up in teams. You really should - it would change your enjoyment of the game drastically. Yes yes, too much trouble, no mic, whatever. We all made those excuses too. 22AL (22nd Argyle Lancers) was my first unit. Awesome guys, great people. I played with them for years without ever having a mic. They still tease me about it when we hang out; wicm still says I'm actually an AI and the voice is fake. It's not work being in a unit. It's less work than pugging. You have a place you go and consistently people who seek you out to play and help you when you want it. If you don't, then just drop in pugs and if someone messages you say 'I'm just pugging today'. Boom. Done. That's it. Because we all do it.

That segue aside, most people who are good with teamwork are in units. A handful of pugs who are good with teamwork still pug. Otherwise it's the dedicated terribad pugs who want FW rewards just for showing up and want everyone who's better than them segregated out so they can pretend they're winners without having to, you know. Earn a win.

Those guys? It's not KCom or MS or BCMC or even EVIL that's ruining your FW experience. It's them. They are literally why your pug team gets rolled. It's why all of the vet players say 'we used to beat units as pugs all the time'. It's because we did - because most pugs were like you and that's good enough to beat most teams almost half the time. I pugged with just over a 1.0 w/l in FW 1 and 2.

Get rid of the **** pugs. Kick them back to QP. If they want to play in FW make them group up. The rest of you, FFS come group up. We'd love to play with you. Don't care if you have no mic. Just listen, go where we go shoot who we shoot. It's good fun.

Total BS your just promoting more seal clubbing and same as same game play as it is until the game dies so you and others can get rewards for what? killing the game? I assume that is your goal the end of MWO through loss of players.




And if the lords of MWO are condoning killing off there community and players so be it.

Edited by KingCobra, 27 January 2018 - 08:48 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

The copy/pasta is strong.

[Windscape]

Why tf did we bring back this thread? We should just stop now before this gets locked.

[RaptorCWS]

KingCobra, on 27 January 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

Total BS your just promoting more seal clubbing and same as same game play as it is until the game dies so you and others can get rewards for what? killing the game? I assume that is your goal the end of MWO through loss of players.




And if the lords of MWO are condoning killing off there community and players so be it.

Not really interested in seeing the game die by loss of players. But we could afford to lose the constant threads about splitting ques and breaking up units. Do you guys feel we need one of these going at all times? As soon as one goes off topic and gets closed another one gets Made. What's the goal here? To convince the devteam that you are right because you constantly lose? If you are actually serious about any of this why not apply to pgi for a design position? I'm pretty sure the people at pgi use in game analytics to see which weapons and mechs outperform others and which spawns points win more often on each map, and even the win loss ratio of pugs vs units. Don't get me wrong, I've been critical of some of the design decisions and feature implementations of the game, but it's highly unlikely that the 12000th thread by a player who is upset that the other team refused to throw themselves onto their spear has any clue on how to fix a game mode. And even less likely that a dev will say that they are right.

And ultimately your complaint is that you can't get the rewards for the team play game mode because you don't want to play as a team.

Look at this as an adult rec sports league. the team that doesn't communicate or try to play as a team is going to lose to the team that talks to each other.

Several of the units that you accuse of killing the game mode are actively inviting pugs to play with them every night.
Heck there is even a thread detailing good builds and bad builds for both IS and clan to help new players out. posted by some of the games best players. By The people you claim are only interested in seal clubbing....if that's the case why are they teaching the seals how to set up their mechs? Half of the battles lost are lost way before the match starts in the mechlab.

So if anyone is new reading in this thread please look at the advice being given by players with positive k/d and w/l ratios:
Bring smart mech builds to the game type and map, communicate and play as a team, possibly invest in a mic and hop into teamspeak or join a unit. Don't freak out when you see a lot of unit tags on the other team. And accept a loss when it happens, someone has to lose.

Edited by RaptorCWS, 28 January 2018 - 12:56 AM.

[Roland09]

RaptorCWS, on 28 January 2018 - 12:54 AM, said:

too many words

Bah, BS. if something needs to be explained with too many words instead of a catchy picture, it must be wrong. Go back to Washington, D.C. where the elitists are.

Drain the Swamp! Drain the Swamp!

/sarcasm