67 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Johnny Z, on 27 December 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

Logic says that double heat sinks would have the capacity and single the cooling. Least that's what I think.

Logic would say that IS DHS have 1/3 more dissipation than cDHS since they have 1/3 more volume, which we could roughly interpret as 1/3 more surface area or whatever. Same capacity for both, since same mass.

Should be 3x SHS, tbqh, but I suppose that would be broken.

[Pjwned]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Honestly, it really confused me when they buffed DHS. I thought they were trying to make heat more of a factor, not less of one?

Probably because they had a rare moment where they realized their methods are stupid, since screwing around with heat capacity values like that is stupid.

And by that I mean lowering heat capacity in the first place, so any values that are closer to what they should be are an improvement.

Edited by Pjwned, 28 December 2016 - 05:31 AM.

[QuantumButler]

If anything both sides should be granted trudubs for all double heatsinks.

[Sjorpha]

QuantumButler, on 28 December 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

If anything both sides should be granted trudubs for all double heatsinks.

Make heat even less of a factor than now?

I think mechs should run about twice as hot as they do now, in general. It's way too forgiving the way it is.

[Pjwned]

QuantumButler, on 28 December 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

If anything both sides should be granted trudubs for all double heatsinks.

Exactly.

Sjorpha, on 28 December 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

Make heat even less of a factor than now?

I think mechs should run about twice as hot as they do now, in general. It's way too forgiving the way it is.

Or we could have actual penalties for running hot.

[Sjorpha]

Pjwned, on 28 December 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

Or we could have actual penalties for running hot.

[cazidin]

RestosIII, on 27 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Honestly, it really confused me when they buffed DHS. I thought they were trying to make heat more of a factor, not less of one?

For the most part, they only added a few extra points back to C-DHS capacity. I think PGI is pre-buffing them in preparation for the new skill tree, which likely will have inferior cooling and heat capacity skills to the IS.

[Aiden Skye]

I haven't noticed any significant change on my clan mechs. Still run really hot and I'm not really shooting much more. If I'm running 12 double heatsinks..at .4 capacity increase per heatsink thats not even an extra medium laser worth of an increase.

[MechaBattler]

So they nerfed IS mechs all year. Then they do this. Trying to make their cash cow clan mech packs more valuable? I don't like to make those accusations, but this last year has not been a good one for balance.

[Y E O N N E]

W A R K H A N, on 28 December 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

I haven't noticed any significant change on my clan mechs. Still run really hot and I'm not really shooting much more. If I'm running 12 double heatsinks..at .4 capacity increase per heatsink thats not even an extra medium laser worth of an increase.

For the 'Mechs bringing 24+ of these things, though, it does add almost a whole cLPL's worth of heat-capacity. And that's a lot of 'Mechs.

[Bandilly]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 December 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

For the 'Mechs bringing 24+ of these things, though, it does add almost a whole cLPL's worth of heat-capacity. And that's a lot of 'Mechs.

The boost only affects the non-engine heatsinks, so (24-10)*.4=5.6.

So not even one extra medium laser for a mech with a good number of heatsinks.

Edited by Bandilly, 28 December 2016 - 11:54 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Bandilly, on 28 December 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

The boost only affects the non-engine heatsinks, so (24-10)*.4=5.6.

So not even one extra medium laser for a mech with a good number of heatsinks.

And so it does. I dunno, a single cERML still seems significant to me. That enables the 2+5 build in the same envelope you used to run 2+4.

[Jackal Noble]

This may seem odd, but Clan dhs feel like they are in a good place for the most part and that IS dhs could be brought up to spec (1/3 might be a bit stronk, but who knows).

To be clear, the benefit is only present and minor noticeable when you are boating dhs. Some don't have space or weight for instance for this to really impact.
Just a few of the top.

Arctic cheetah - carry 2 dhs at most usually
Adder - boating potential with lighter energy weapons.
Viper- The queen of anemic. No way Jose
Huntsman - nope. runs hot regardless, due to no internal sinks.
ebon jaguar - semi boating potential
Timberwolf - bit low on available space.
Night gyr- not enough space to boat dhs.
MarauderIIC- Boaty McBoaterson of DHS boating
Warhawk - lots of locked equipment, not so great for dhs boating due to space limitations, but quirks and locked dhs help nullify
Kodiak - good DHS cap
Dire Wolf - Boat Turret Game cube looking thing.



Further after that maybe, maybe big MAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYBBBBBEEEE then work in a simple heat scale, with normalized values and no more !^$#$#@@!^&**(#$%#ing ghost heat.

Edited by JackalBeast, 28 December 2016 - 12:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 28 December 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

This may seem odd, but Clan dhs feel like they are in a good place and that IS dhs could be brought up to spec (1/3 might be a bit stronk, but who knows).
Further after that maybe, maybe big MAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYBBBBBEEEE then work in a simple heat scale, with normalized values and no mroe !^$#$#@@!^&**(#$%#ing ghost heat.

IS DHS wouldn't need tweaking if they dropped heat on MedLas/MedPulse to 3 and PPC/ERPPC to 8/12. We'd also be able to get rid of those confounded heat gen quirks.

[Angel of Annihilation]

So did it ever dawn on anyone that maybe PGI changed things this way because their data suggested the Clan mechs were under performing? I know everyone loves to know everything about Clan vs IS balance despite not having access to any of the data PGI has, but maybe, just maybe the people with full access to the data use actual facts instead of perceptions to balance the game.

[NRP]

Viktor Drake you blasphemous scrub!

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 28 December 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

This may seem odd, but Clan dhs feel like they are in a good place for the most part and that IS dhs could be brought up to spec (1/3 might be a bit stronk, but who knows).

To be clear, the benefit is only present and minor noticeable when you are boating dhs. Some don't have space or weight for instance for this to really impact.
Just a few of the top.

Arctic cheetah - carry 2 dhs at most usually
Adder - boating potential with lighter energy weapons.
Viper- The queen of anemic. No way Jose
Huntsman - nope. runs hot regardless, due to no internal sinks.
ebon jaguar - semi boating potential
Timberwolf - bit low on available space.
Night gyr- not enough space to boat dhs.
MarauderIIC- Boaty McBoaterson of DHS boating
Warhawk - lots of locked equipment, not so great for dhs boating due to space limitations, but quirks and locked dhs help nullify
Kodiak - good DHS cap
Dire Wolf - Boat Turret Game cube looking thing.



Further after that maybe, maybe big MAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYBBBBBEEEE then work in a simple heat scale, with normalized values and no more !^$#$#@@!^&**(#$%#ing ghost heat.

ACH - doesn't boat, but doesn't run any hotter than comparably equipped IS lights either
ADR - No idea, never messed with it
VPR - Not a boat, can't boat...unless you run only 4 tons of guns. Not really any different than a CDA tbqh.
EBJ - boats DHS (23 w/ 2x cLPL + 6x cERML)
TBR - boats DHS (24 w/ 2x cLPL + 4x cERML)
HMN - boats DHS (19x w. 5x cMPL)
NTG - doesn't even need to boat DHS because ballistics and Gauss
MAD-IIC - Boaty McBoatface Mk. II (get it right!)
WHK - Boaty McBoatface Mk. I (has so many locked that its a boat no matter what)
KDK - Can boat, doesn't usually boat because ballistics and Gauss
DWF- Can boat, often boats.

[Andi Nagasia]

JackalBeast, on 28 December 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

This may seem odd, but Clan dhs feel like they are in a good place for the most part and that IS dhs could be brought up to spec (1/3 might be a bit stronk, but who knows).

To be clear, the benefit is only present and minor noticeable when you are boating dhs. Some don't have space or weight for instance for this to really impact.
Just a few of the top.

Arctic cheetah - carry 2 dhs at most usually
Adder - boating potential with lighter energy weapons.
Viper- The queen of anemic. No way Jose
Huntsman - nope. runs hot regardless, due to no internal sinks.
ebon jaguar - semi boating potential
Timberwolf - bit low on available space.
Night gyr- not enough space to boat dhs.
MarauderIIC- Boaty McBoaterson of DHS boating
Warhawk - lots of locked equipment, not so great for dhs boating due to space limitations, but quirks and locked dhs help nullify
Kodiak - good DHS cap
Dire Wolf - Boat Turret Game cube looking thing.



Further after that maybe, maybe big MAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYBBBBBEEEE then work in a simple heat scale, with normalized values and no more !^$#$#@@!^&**(#$%#ing ghost heat.

its still a increase of Clan Heat Cap by 40%, which is huge,
allowing you to almost fire 3 times where you could only fire 2 times before,
yes you wont see it if you dont have many head sinks, but then again you do start with 10, so theirs that,
-
Assuming this almost 1/3 bonus Heat Cap added,
for Example even thought small this allows a JR7 or ACH with 4MPL to fire 3 times,
where they could only fire only 2 times before, comparably thats 92damage vs 64damage,
this isnt a small problem even for Smaller mechs, its just more apparent with larger mechs,

[SmokeGuar]

Lets remember that this latest change is not buff, it is un-nerfing to nerf that was done Dec -15.

Most likely PGI will poke stuff again with new skill tree, so this wont last. OP Clan tech my....

Math:

Clan double HS:

10 internal sinks, cap 2.0 = 20
10 external sinks, cap 1.1 = 11 "old"
10 external sinks, cap 1.5 = 15 "new old"

total old cap 31, total new cap 35, increase of 13%

/Receives Oscar from fainting

[Andi Nagasia]

SmokeGuar, on 28 December 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

Lets remember that this latest change is not buff, it is un-nerfing to nerf that was done Dec -15.

Most likely PGI will poke stuff again with new skill tree, so this wont last. OP Clan tech my....

Math:

Clan double HS:

10 internal sinks, cap 2.0 = 20
10 external sinks, cap 1.1 = 11 "old"
10 external sinks, cap 1.5 = 15 "new old"

total old cap 31, total new cap 35, increase of 13%

/Receives Oscar from fainting

wondering how you got a total heat cap increase on only 13%,
if you have 20DHS and each has an increased Cap of 40%ish, then it would be 28,
not seeing how you are getting only a +4 to the cap, this Change at this point is a Buff,
and benefit isnt static but depends on how many DHS you have Equipped,