121 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

From Lore prospective

IS being = Clan
same as
IS being OP

Oh, he's arguing from a lore perspective.

Guys, we can leave now. His stance is completely meaningless.

[Bombast]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 January 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Oh, he's arguing from a lore perspective.

Guys, we can leave now. His stance is completely meaningless.

[Revis Volek]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

From Lore prospective

IS being = Clan
same as
IS being OP

So by this logic Clan = OP

and if all things are OP then nothing is really OP?

I thinks that's balance in a nut shell.

Edited by Revis Volek, 02 January 2017 - 12:11 PM.

[Svarn Lornon]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Yeah, Clan has last tiny advantage, and you trying hard to remove it, so IS tech in MWO can finally be maximum OP.

Sure it's a tiny advantage that you don't loose your mech when the ST is blown off. Just a tiny, little advantage, nothing big at all....

Quote

I see not many Battletech fans among MWO players this days. No one wants the game to be actually close to BT and TT lore and rules.

So finally we are at the root of the issue: you want the clans to be your powergamers munchkin dream again! I see! Tell you what: the Clans totally destroyed the TT balance and did some nasty things to it's behind. And bringing all these lore restrictions into the game simply doesn't work in an MMO-game. But let's just ignore that little fact...

So sorry you can't play a proper Clan Herrenmensch in a powergamers wet dream.

[Novakaine]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

Because now Clan and IS mech effectively equal, and tonnage disparities throwing everything to **** - proves it.

For tonnage disparities to work, Clan mechs should be really lore-level overpowered.




So why dont take matching system from Lore?

Make clan/unit leaders actually a thing. And give them powers to decide with how many tonnage disparities their unit/clan will attack planet. And how much reward for successful attack they get is based on the % of disparities. They can go 1:1 against IS, but in this case they and all their clan/unit get almost no reward for battle.

Just don't wherever to laugh or pity you.
Your circular reasoning has failed you.

[Chimera_]

Good lord, it's amazing how some people can so (seemingly) effortlessly grasp onto new straws as their arguments fall apart, completely unwilling to admit they're simply wrong.

Yes, the Dragon is OP. That's clear now. Clearly you've discovered a secret that all the good players in the game haven't realized yet. You better get some and play them, before they get nerfed! See how much fun you have.

Clan mechs don't simply run hotter. They carry more lasers, thus causing more heat. If you tune an IS and Clan mech to have nearly identical firepower they'll run very similar, especially after the DHS buffs.

You say IS is OP, then say it's not actually OP, but it actually is overpowered by "being equal to clans". Wut?

Of course, none of my saying this matters. It's all been explained multiple times. This post strained me to such degree that I had to post a response...

[Gentleman Reaper]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Agree. Cause its the only disparity that left.

Instead of balancing Clan vs IS in lore-way, when Clan mechs is trully overpowered, but less numerous, and IS is not so strong but in large numbers(so in terms of our game it could simply be much Lower tonnage limit for clans, while clan mechs being very strong) - We got situation where Clan and IS mech is almost equal, and we get "CS rush b" game type instead of Mechwarrior game.

Yes, it's the only disparity that's left... if you don't count:

7 slot Endo
7 slot and lighter Ferro
1 ton lighter and splash damage ERPPC
Half-weight SRMs and LRMs
SSRM4 and 6s
2 slot DHS
Actually good small and medium class lasers
12 ton Gauss Rifles
Lighter and much higher DPS UACs compared to ACs (an issue with the terrible jam mechanic mostly)
Half-weight MGs (lower item HP isn't a proper balancing measure alone)

[Dimento Graven]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

...

For tonnage disparities to work, Clan mechs should be really lore-level overpowered.

GOOD NEWS!!! Clans are, for the most part, ton-for-ton out powering their IS counterparts.

Again, I can take a Clan medium 'mech and it will be able to fight AT LEAST as well as my, mostly, equally equipped IS heavy 'mech.

By "mostly", I mean that my Clan medium is able to move faster than the IS heavy due to the advantage of a non-splody XL engine, where, on my IS 'mech, if I load the XL, I'm still compromised by having to load an engine 6 equivalent tons lighter than the Clan medium due to the much heavier weapons.

By the same token, I can take my Clan heavy, load it up exactly like my IS Assault, and end up with a 'mech that's faster, hits harder (because of CERLL's hit harder), runs faster (nearly 70kph vs 56.6kph), and has a longer survivability and viability record than the KGC (on the KGC, if you load an XL in it, that huge right torso makes you die quickly, and if you don't load an XL that same huge right torso makes you lose all but ONE of your weapons quickly when it's cored out, vs. the NTG's more spread configuration with no giant ST's to worry about).

Yes, your point is proven.

Quote

So why dont take matching system from Lore?

"Because <sniff>, programming is hard... <queue tear drop rolling down cheek>"

Quote

Make clan/unit leaders actually a thing. And give them powers to decide with how many tonnage disparities their unit/clan will attack planet. And how much reward for successful attack they get is based on the % of disparities. They can go 1:1 against IS, but in this case they and all their clan/unit get almost no reward for battle.

This is silly and I'm unaware of many players being willing to do this very much.

[Kimberm1911]

I see these long threads with people bringing up statistics and numbers back and forth, and it's just annoying. Statistics are fine, until you bring in the actual human element that comprises part of what makes a competitive multiplayer game, then they start to mean less and less as the reality of how the game actually plays becomes relevant. Stats are just aggregate numbers designed to help us understand how the game is functioning, not necessarily tell us exactly which mech is going to be better than others. I'm assuming that everyone on this forum has actually played this game. People keep bringing up meaningless stats about weapons and mechs. There is SO much more that makes a good mech than that. Clan mechs are just simply easier for people to use, and are better due to MANY factors other than just whether or not their lasers have longer range or more damage. In fact, most of the people QQ'ing over IS being OP, are entirely ignoring the team based element that also effects mechs themselves. Sure the IS may, arguably, have some better quirks that make them more efficient in specific situations, but overall Clan mechs are just considerably better. Here's my opinion on that. I will discuss the higher ranking mechs, as low ranking mechs are not played enough to warrant consideration. (I.E. No one is complaining about how OP the Myst Lynx is, or how an Awesome can just rip through waves of Clan mechs like butter.)

1. Clan mechs have speed and firepower. Both of those things are necessary for a mech to be functional in the current game. Look at the top contending mechs in the Clan arsenal. They are fast (Even the Night Gyr is fast for the amount of firepower it packs on board.), and have enough firepower to be a threat to ANY mech on the battlefield. There is no assault mech that can ignore a Clan mech simply because it is a lower tonnage. However, as an assault I can ignore similarly tonned IS mechs because they lack the firepower necessary to damage me effectively. In addition, even if they have firepower, they aren't always fast enough to bring that firepower to bear efficiently. Even if the IS wants to have speed and firepower, they need to put in an IS XL, which is extremely inefficient compared to a Clan XL. Not only do you have the worry of dying to a side torso loss, but the extra 2 slots that take up the side torsos, do effect what load outs the IS can bring into the fray.

2. Geometry on top ranking mechs. The IS just has some bad geometry on their top mechs, and statistics can't tell us what type of geometry is going to be more efficient in the meta. Mechs like the grasshopper and Black Knight are just easy to disassemble compared to the Clan mechs of the same caliber. Ever tried to fight each of these mechs 1 on 1. I can assure you that taking down the IS mechs is much easier than taking out the clan mech. Not just because of the firepower, but because of how they can move and shield. Ebon Jag is low to the ground, with nicely placed weapon systems, the Timber wolf also runs fairly low compared to its Humanoid IS counterparts, and has well placed weapons. The IS mechs on the other hand, are incredibly tall, with low weapon mounts and inefficient hard point placement. This is the case even in the high ranking Clan and IS assaults. Yes, the Kodiak may have been nerfed to hell, but its amazing hard point placement and good geometry still makes it an insanely good mech. It doesn't matter that the Mauler, Banshee, Battlemaster or Cyclops are quirked, the geometry and weapon placement on the Kodiak, coupled with a clan XL, just makes it more efficient. To those that would be crying about, "The Battlemaster is just so OP due to quirks," you have either: A) Never fought a Battlemaster 1 on 1 with a Kodiak or MAD IIC (Both similarly ranked mechs.) or have never played an unquirked Battlemaster (It sucks in case you were wondering. The quirks make it playable.) Due to the Battlemaster blocky shape, and the need to run an XL, a Dakka Kodiak will shred through the Battlmaster in seconds. Yes, some IS pilots can make the mech work, but in most circumstances it can not compete with a Kodiak overall. Sure, it might shred a Kodiak at long ranges with an ERLL build, but it wouldn't be fighting a Kodiak at that range, it'd encounter an Ebon Jag, or Timber wolf, who could outmaneuver it with the same amount of firepower. Which brings me to my 3rd point.

3. This game is not a series of one on one duels or one off long range encounters. Overall, the team composition of a Clan team is just better than an IS team. Sure, a 12 man of Warhammers can stomp a Clan PUG, but put that group of Warhammers against an equally skilled 12 man of Ebon Jags, and you are looking at a loosing battle. Not only are the Ebon Jags faster and more durable, but they can run a boat load of builds to adapt to different situations. The IS mechs usually only have 1 or 2 good builds to run.

4. Clan mechs are more forgiving. Sure, the IS can. theoretically, run the same firepower and speed a the clans, but clan mechs are just easier to utilize out of the box.

I really enjoy the game, and I love the Clan mechs, but to claim that the IS is more powerful than the Clan is ignoring real player experience in the game. Sure, you may have gotten stomped by a good IS group, but most of the time, PUG against PUG, the more efficient, tougher, and faster Clan mechs are going to win.

[Novakaine]

[Lykaon]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Yeah, Clan has last tiny advantage, and you trying hard to remove it, so IS tech in MWO can finally be maximum OP.

I see not many Battletech fans among MWO players this days. No one wants the game to be actually close to BT and TT lore and rules.

You're so right preach it brother!

My MAD IIc-a with a 350XL engine endo steel ferro fibrious 5 external DHS 3 UAC5s and 4 medium pulse lasers is utter crap when facing any I.S. 85 tonner...and never mind those super OP'ed dragons with Warhawk level CT armors.

Seriously? you expect people to believe you?

Let's tally up the crit slots used on my MADIIc-a.

Endo + ferro 14 slots
Xl engine 4 slots
5 external DHS 10 slots
4 medium pulse lasers 4 more slots
three UAC5s 9 more slots
seven tons ammo 7 more crit slots

Total: 48 crit slots

Inner sphere mech trying the same

Endo + ferro = 28 crits
XL engine= 6 crits
5 external DHS = 15 crits
4 medium pulse lasers = 4 crits
3 UAC5s = 15 crits
7 tons ammo = 7 more crits

Total: 75 crits....so I guess I should bring two mechs because the I.S. mech ran out of crits around 30 crit slots ago and out of tonnage 7 tons ago...

Oh and the clan XL survives having it's side blow off...

And an I.S. mech can't even fit two UAC5s in a side torso with an XL engine NEVER MIND THREE OF THEM!

Really? you can't see this as asemetrical ?

Edited by Lykaon, 02 January 2017 - 05:19 PM.

[El Bandito]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

It does not. You will have hard time to find IS mech without +10% energy range.

Welcome to my ignore list, pal. This statement of yours is even dumber than your previous ones. Go to this website and look for yourself, as there are huge number of IS mechs without +10% energy range. How do you even function?

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

[brroleg]

Kimberm1911, on 02 January 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Never fought a Battlemaster 1 on 1 with a Kodiak or MAD IIC

Kodiak and MAD IIC is whole another problem of MWO.

Kodiak and MAD IIC are battlemechs, and from Lore perspective - clan battlemechs should be second line reserve mechs. In another words, Kodiak and MAD IIC should suck. The fact that they not only not sucking, but is the best mechs in Clan arsenal in MWO - makes me sad.

[Dimento Graven]

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

...

Kodiak and MAD IIC are battlemechs, and from Lore perspective - clan battlemechs should be second line reserve mechs. In another words, Kodiak and MAD IIC should suck. The fact that they not only not sucking, but is the best mechs in Clan arsenal in MWO - makes me sad.

Which is MORE proof why Clan tech, all of it put together NOT just one piece here or there, makes Clans OP.

You have TWO examples of "IS" type 'mechs which have fully configurable systems, no locked hard points that I can recall, but configurable with Clan XL engines, Clan weapons, Clan Heat sinks, and all other Clan level tech, and almost ZERO WEAPONS QUIRKS (I think one of the MAD-IIC's has a weapon quirk, don't care enough to look), AND THEY F'ING DOMINATE.

I don't know how much more proof you'd need to understand that when you put all the advantages together from ALL the Clan tech, it's DAMNED DIFFICULT for the IS to compete ton-for-ton 1-v-1.

So kwitcherbitchin, man up, and play the game.

[Grixa19]

Dimento Graven, on 02 January 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Which is MORE proof why Clan tech, all of it put together NOT just one piece here or there, makes Clans OP.

You have TWO examples of "IS" type 'mechs which have fully configurable systems, no locked hard points that I can recall, but configurable with Clan XL engines, Clan weapons, Clan Heat sinks, and all other Clan level tech, and almost ZERO WEAPONS QUIRKS (I think one of the MAD-IIC's has a weapon quirk, don't care enough to look), AND THEY F'ING DOMINATE.

I don't know how much more proof you'd need to understand that when you put all the advantages together from ALL the Clan tech, it's DAMNED DIFFICULT for the IS to compete ton-for-ton 1-v-1.

So kwitcherbitchin, man up, and play the game.

MAD with 3xAC5 + 4ML should take down any MADII easily enough if u are not potato...

Edited by Grixa19, 03 January 2017 - 02:55 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Grixa19, on 03 January 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

MAD with 3xAC5 + 4ML should take down any MADII easily enough if u are not potato...

[Lily from animove]

Lupis Volk, on 02 January 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

Great now Smoke Jaguar is having genetic defects.

don't worry, the clanners with defects will fial and their bloodlines then are discontinued.

brroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

It does not. You will have hard time to find IS mech without +10% energy range. And IS ERLL with +10% energy range = C-ERLL range.

you know in the Age of internet everyone can verfiy statements like this, it would therefore be a lot more clever to reevaluate the things you want to say before typing and sending them to the net. Otherwise you lose a lot of credibility and people are just stopping to read your posts. The internet is a flood of informations and to survive it people weed out those individuals which are a waste of time by constantly talking nonsens,e spam, rubbish and of course also misinformation. Some basic math and knowledge is what people expect everyone to do here in this Forum that we don't want to teach for earch discussion again, otherwise we would waste our time on reddit.

Edited by Lily from animove, 03 January 2017 - 04:26 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Grixa19, on 03 January 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

MAD with 3xAC5 + 4ML should take down any MADII easily enough if u are not potato...

If the person piloting the MAD-IIC is conveniently enough for you a potato, yes, that's plausible.

If the pilot of the MAD-IIC is at the very least, mediocre, you're going to have a hard time.

More armor, more fire power, more speed, tend to count in the final tally. When I've piloted my MAD-IIC's, I don't recall ANY Marauders that did anything other than melt when I fired at them.

[actionking]

If enemy is OP maybe you're UP? You should start using LRM, they are OP as hell and will help to cover your UPness. If even that wont work, i recommend you watch a youtube vid of my guinea pigs playing mwo. I'm sure you'll learn a trick or two there.

[Pyed]

Grixa19, on 03 January 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

MAD with 3xAC5 + 4ML should take down any MADII easily enough if u are not potato...

Sure, I in a Marauder can take down "a" MADIIC easily enough,
but I'd take me in a MADIIC over me in an IS Marauder anyday.