42 replies to this topic

[GoatHILL]

Are there any IS mechs that are going to benefit from this version of the new skill tree?

Without the quirks most of the IS mechs are getting nerfed while most the clan mechs are remaining the same some are even getting small buffs.

I like the skill tree but without offensive quirks the IS done.

Please name any IS mech that will be better.

[Spheroid]

I believe the Battlemaster-2C will benefit as it will double down on armor and it never had any heat reduction to begin with. Again I must congratulate myself on buying seven.

XL 4x LPLAS + AMS
XL 5x LLAS + AMS
XL 5x ERLLAS
XL 4x ERLLAS + AMS
STD 4x ERLAS + AMS
STD 3x LPLAS + mlas
STD 2x LPLAS + mlas + AMS

Edited by Spheroid, 03 May 2017 - 09:20 AM.

[Bud Crue]

The Deaths Knell.

On the first PTS, they had it down for losing its massive, and OP, 10% energy range quirk.
On the most recent PTS, they changed their mind and now it is keeping it. Thus, no nerf to this mech.
In accordance with the second iteration of the first PTS, the base line engine value for determining the agility of the TDK is 193, which is less than the engine most folks put on it (225ish or better), but as we all know the skills tree will allow it to recover that agility so there ya have it: a Tier 4 mech that will be potentially an OP, dominant, baseline crushing, meta-killing monster, all because it is keeping it totally insane 10% energy quirk and isn't hit too hard by decoupling. God help us all.

How can PGI possibly establish a new baseline of performance with over quirked mechs like this meta-slaying demon running around loose?

Edited by Bud Crue, 03 May 2017 - 09:23 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Mechs that were tanky will be a bit more tanky?

And I guess mechs with low engine caps will be more agile than before? I know that my AC40 Rifleman was more agile than on live.

Edited by MechaBattler, 03 May 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Bushwhacker X1 and P1 are also not being nerfed either, and with a base engine agility of 288 they should be all right as well.

Those two and the TDK are the only IS mechs not losing or having offensive quirks or agility nerfed up front. Every other IS mech, even the Battlemaster that are gaining agility via engine decoupling, are losing something offensive quirks, agility via loss of quirks or engine decouple or all of the above.

All but three mechs.

That new baseline PGI is looking for? Good luck in getting reliable data for it, cus some mechs are simply not going to be played by a cross-section of players because of these nerfs. Your data is thus screwed from the outset.

[GoatHILL]

MY GOD!!!!

Not a TDK and Bushwackers those thing will be god tier. sarcasm

[Bud Crue]

GoatHILL, on 03 May 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

MY GOD!!!!

Not a TDK and Bushwackers those thing will be god tier. sarcasm

We might have had one more un nerffed mech to add to those three: The Thunderbolt Top Dog wasn't touched in the original nerfs
http://static.mwomer...TS_ISQuirks.pdf

But me and my big key board had to go and use it as an illustrative example as the stupidity of the way nerfs were being applied and they added a whole suite of nerfs to it in the second iteration of the PTS. I'm so sorry. The pain to my Quickdraws blinded me to that of others. I can't apologize enough...I might have spared another of PGI's victims. If I had just stayed silent, we could have had...one heavy not nerffed.

[R Valentine]

MechaBattler, on 03 May 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

Mechs that were tanky will be a bit more tanky?

And I guess mechs with low engine caps will be more agile than before? I know that my AC40 Rifleman was more agile than on live.

You mean after losing the entirety of its velocity quirks? Durability quirks always pale in comparison to offensive quirks. You only get that armor once. Meanwhile, offensive quirks are there every time you pull the trigger. Infinity > one. The math isn't really that hard, so losing offensive quirks is massive vs. gaining a bit of armor here and there.

[MechaBattler]

Did I say that it made up for the loss of weapon skills? I just said the facts. Which given how little I said, in of itself says just how little IS benefits from the skill tree. Meanwhile Clan players have built up in their head that we're going to suddenly be OP.

[Scyther]

Since it takes about 61 nodes to roughly duplicate the current skill tree, leaving 30 nodes to 'add more stuff', and since most agility quirks are getting rolled into the mech base stats, defensive quirks are remaining, and offensive quirks other than Velocity are mostly being reduced by 5-10%, virtually all of my IS mechs will be objectively better.

See threads:
https://mwomercs.com...ter-comparison/ for the 61 nodes part and

https://mwomercs.com...pinions-please/ for the 'objectively better' part.

For some skills or abilities that are receiving a global nerf (or buff) to all mechs (IS and Clan both), see https://mwomercs.com...hese-skills-do/

Most mechs will have more module functions, more weapons ability, more sensors, couple other things. They will lose a few percent off certain functions as well.

The actual issue is the removal of quirks hurts IS mechs, as a guesstimate, 5-10% more overall than it hurts Clan mechs. So IS mechs become objectively (somewhat) better, but 'relatively' worse. Since they were already about 5-10% worse overall than Clan mechs, this makes the IS/Clan imbalance bigger. (The global heat nerf may hit Clans harder than IS, we'll have to see.)

That's not the same as saying "IS mechs will be useless" but it certainly doesn't help the situation. It is possible that PGI simply wants to get the skill tree in, engine de-sync in, new tech in, and let that all shake out for a while before re-quirking things. In which case IS may have a fairly rough patch to play through for the next 6 months to 'heaven knows how long'.

Well, did you think being an IS MechWarrior was going to be easy?

Edited by MadBadger, 03 May 2017 - 11:02 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Has anyone else considered that the Clans targeting computers cost the Clans tonnage and slots to increase the velocity of their projectiles, but the skill tree gives them that without as many downsides? Of course assuming you don't need those points elsewhere.

[GoatHILL]

Madbadger read Kiran's post.

Firepower trumps defensive quirks every time.

[Scyther]

GoatHILL read my post.

I covered that.

[Zigmund Freud]

Bud Crue, on 03 May 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

The Deaths Knell post.

Made me lol.

Seriously tho, why are they so obsessed with removing quirks all of a sudden? Quirks is nice, not even balancing-vise, but because they make mechs more different with uniqe play style. If they want to throw in new tech and let us test all this stuff until they figure out how to balance the entire game from the scratch i understand. But why do we have to suffer quirkless existance for 2 month befor new tech even arrive?

[Cato Phoenix]

I think we need data on how agility quirks are being rolled in before we sign them off as 'remaining unchanged'.

[Monkey Lover]

MechaBattler, on 03 May 2017 - 11:37 AM, said:

Has anyone else considered that the Clans targeting computers cost the Clans tonnage and slots to increase the velocity of their projectiles, but the skill tree gives them that without as many downsides? Of course assuming you don't need those points elsewhere.

No one considers it because everyone uses the 1 ton computer. Kind of easy to come up with 1 ton with 1 slot.

[MechaBattler]

I thought the Hunchback IIC poptart build used a TC 4?

Also saw a thread saying they weren't worth using anymore.

[Monkey Lover]

MechaBattler, on 03 May 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

I thought the Hunchback IIC poptart build used a TC 4?

Also saw a thread saying they weren't worth using anymore.

I only use them for laser range. tc4 doesnt even double the quirk from tc1, to me its not worth using. Even my 2c poptart i only use 1tc so i can have more dhs. 15% more speed increase to the tc4 isn't worth it.


Still wondering what IS is going to get on their TC. Are they nerfing everything because of these?

Edited by Monkey Lover, 03 May 2017 - 02:52 PM.

[Athom83]

Anything that didn't have big quirks for a main weapon system. Take the Marauder 3R with the 2 LB-X loadout. Before it didn't have any cooldown or spread quirks. Now, it will be tanker, faster firing, cooler running, and have better spread.

[Marius Romanis]

Spheroid, on 03 May 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

I believe the Battlemaster-2C will benefit as it will double down on armor and it never had any heat reduction to begin with. Again I must congratulate myself on buying seven.

What are you smoking ? 2c is losing 10% energy range.