366 replies to this topic

[Lukoi Banacek]

1453 R, on 03 January 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

According to this train of logic, there should never be any group smaller than 12 in the group queue.

You're stating that nobody ever has an excuse to drop in less than the most hardcore, bleeding-edge Ultracomp-y company combat team they can assemble, because if you don't put maximum possible effort into something you don't deserve to enjoy that something, and if you want to screw around and do anything but fight to the very tippiest-top edge of your Sirlin-worshipping capabilities, you should drop exclusively in the solo queue where the rest of the derps, drabs, and dumbf***s hang out, chillax and fail to care.

Is that really how the game should be?

No he's saying that you should own your choices. If you want to drop in a small group, you know the risks. If you want to drop undertonned when PGI gave you tonnage, you know the risks. If you want to run nothing but LRM's and a tag on your MAL, you know the risks. If you want to solo cap during conquest in an Assault, you know the risks.

That's how the game is. Why should it be watered down any further? Own your decisions. If that means losing some more matches....that's ok. Have fun playing your way and stop worrying about it so much.

It seems like you want to have things stacked in your favor so you can derp as much as you want and still win just as often. That's an unreasonable idea on the face of it.

Deathlike, on 03 January 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

I've always thought there needed to be an intermediate queue - one between groups and solo (2-4 man queue) that would fill the void. I think there's enough smaller groups that form up more than bigger groups, but there's a possibility of eating the potential matchups for bigger groups (5+) that need these people. Big groups are NOT the norm generally speaking.

Did you not see my progression model previously mentioned!? YES!!

[MischiefSC]

No. Not at all. I'm saying that dropping in less than 12 is something we ALL DO. In fact most do on purpose to avoid tonnage gimping.

However I recognize that bigger groups of better coordinated teams have an advantage over me. Someone playing harder/better has an advantage over me. I drop sub par mechs regularly in QP, GQ and FW. I know the risks I'm taking and the advantages I'm giving up. I still hold myself to the same expectations to perform.

I enjoy it commensurate to the effort I put in. I expect to win commensurate to the effort to put in. I have too much self respect to demand that I win as much and am rewarded as much as people who try harder and play better than me.

Play how you want, what you want. However you'll be rewarded commensurate to how you stack up vs the effort, skill and energy other players are putting in.

[1453 R]

Deathlike hit it well, methinks.

Currently, there's a Black Void of Death between the solo-drop mosh pit of Puglandia Proper, where anything can work if you do it vigorously enough and the other team brought enough Spiders, and the Group Queue which severely favors large-group, hyper-coordinated Mil-Spec play and anyone who doesn't max out their tonnage and spend at least ten hours a week practicing their teamplay is food for starved Ultracomps.

The 2-4-man small group area is the worst possible place to find yourself in all of MWO, and the f*** of it is that clearly a large number of group queue guys do not care. So long as they can continue their clubbing rampages with their seven+ buddies, they're perfectly A-OK and the rest of us can either Git Gud or die like the slimey wretched subhuman dogs we are.

So, that said...question.

Would not the duo-dropping, trio-dropping guys who're slinging around with their buddies, getting mauled eight games out of ten in the group queue and being irrelevant to their team the other two, be the gateway for large group play? if you start solo, decide you like the game a lot, and start playing with a friend or two only to find out that the game despises your very existence as a small-group guy in group queue, what're you, as Average Gamer Guy, likely to do?

Continue getting your face melted to no purpose in Groupocalypse Hell, hoping against hope that some day...Some Day...against all hope, despite all the odds, no matter the viciousness of those grinding their heels in your teeth from On High...like a proper ugly little T4 duckling you can grow up into a beautiful 12-man Swan?

Or head on back to solo play where the game actually gives you a fair shake, and just figure this is a solo-only moshpit game with nothing else going for it?

[Pika]

xTrident, on 03 January 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

Horrible program that works poorly? I've been using TS well over a decade without any issues ever. What problems are you talking about?

To be fair to him, it is pretty crappy. Discord is a thing these days.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Why are you getting mauled 8/10 in group queue in small groups might be the more relevant question. I'm not some uber player, nor is my unit and we don't have this problem in group queue.

[Mystere]

Todd Lightbringer, on 03 January 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

I wish the game went back to 8v8, it was fun then. 12v12 is not fun.

This 100% solo player is going to have to disagree. 12v12 is definitely much more fun as far as I am concerned.

[Lukoi Banacek]

1453 R, on 03 January 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

The 2-4-man small group area is the worst possible place to find yourself in all of MWO, and the f*** of it is that clearly a large number of group queue guys do not care. So long as they can continue their clubbing rampages with their seven+ buddies, they're perfectly A-OK and the rest of us can either Git Gud or die like the slimey wretched subhuman dogs we are.

Always with martyr syndrome hyperbole. Group queue guys who play small group ARE POSTING ON THIS THREAD and you choose to ignore everything they are telling you because you have convinced yourself there is a boogieman conspiracy hell bent on ruining your MWO experience.

[Deathlike]

Having smaller groups is a far more common occurrence than anything else in the group queue.

The biggest farce of a response I commonly see is the one that "bigger premades dominate" and that's far from the truth. The reality is that teams that work together dominate, and that's always been OP since the beginning. Being a big or small team doesn't change the mechanics of this.

It only takes one person to block everyone from shooting the primary target... because he's either greedy or doesn't understand how they are affecting the match.

[1453 R]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Always with martyr syndrome hyperbole. Group queue guys who play small group ARE POSTING ON THIS THREAD and you choose to ignore everything they are telling you because you have convinced yourself there is a boogieman conspiracy hell bent on ruining your MWO experience.

Possibly because my experience has been precisely the opposite?

Good games are the exception, not the norm, when I go duo-dropping in MWO. Sometimes that's just because we get outplayed, or somebody does something dumb and we pay for it. Just as often, however, it ends up as "this team was completely outmatched from the start" and there was never a single damned thing Maker or I could do to pull the game around.

Whether that's simply because we're awful MWO players, video gamers, and possibly human beings, because we end up with a disproportionate number of idiots in our games, or whether it's the near-constant encounters with enemy teams consisting of nine unified tags and three drabs we just can't poke holes in, I don't know. But I feel like it's something worth finding out.

[Revis Volek]

ACrispyTaco, on 03 January 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

By limiting the number of people you can bring into a Quick Match to 4. That's how you address it. I said that in my original post but you must not have read that part.

We did this before and it didnt work....


Anymore original and bright ideas?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 03 January 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Possibly because my experience has been precisely the opposite?

So then the question is, is this universal for all small groups or is it just a subset and why are they experiencing this. The false assumption you madeis that ALL small groups run into this.

Then there is a separate question you have to ask on whether or not there is even a good solution when we suffer from such a low population.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 January 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

1453 R, on 03 January 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Possibly because my experience has been precisely the opposite?

Good games are the exception, not the norm, when I go duo-dropping in MWO. Sometimes that's just because we get outplayed, or somebody does something dumb and we pay for it. Just as often, however, it ends up as "this team was completely outmatched from the start" and there was never a single damned thing Maker or I could do to pull the game around.

Whether that's simply because we're awful MWO players, video gamers, and possibly human beings, because we end up with a disproportionate number of idiots in our games, or whether it's the near-constant encounters with enemy teams consisting of nine unified tags and three drabs we just can't poke holes in, I don't know. But I feel like it's something worth finding out.

Well, here's where we differ. My experience doesn't mirror yours at all when I run small groups of 2-4. Not remotely. So I bring back my previous comment.

The more relevant question why are you losing 80% of your matches when running small groups? You stance this entire thread has been that it's the "large groups." But as Suko noted, they only make up (according to his stale statistics) maybe 5%. If that's true, then you aren't facing them every match. Maybe once in ten on average.

So while irritating to lose to a seemingly unbeatable kill squad that's taken a tonnage hit for running a 9-man once in a bit, I'm even less convinced now than I was before, that your problematic WLR in small group matches is actually based on that factor.

edit: not trying to imply anything negative here btw. Just noting that previous comments don't line up with what folks are espousing as facts on this thread, which makes me think it's more than likely other issues contributing to the poor WLR in small-group play for some folks.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 03 January 2017 - 05:11 PM.

[Deathlike]

1453 R, on 03 January 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Possibly because my experience has been precisely the opposite?

Good games are the exception, not the norm, when I go duo-dropping in MWO. Sometimes that's just because we get outplayed, or somebody does something dumb and we pay for it. Just as often, however, it ends up as "this team was completely outmatched from the start" and there was never a single damned thing Maker or I could do to pull the game around.

Whether that's simply because we're awful MWO players, video gamers, and possibly human beings, because we end up with a disproportionate number of idiots in our games, or whether it's the near-constant encounters with enemy teams consisting of nine unified tags and three drabs we just can't poke holes in, I don't know. But I feel like it's something worth finding out.

The thing about dropping in smaller groups is that you are forced to carry, no matter the odds. I'm not going to say that's a great stance or behavior to take, but it's the reality of the game.

Too many games have I seen players do squat... even when they are on the winning side... doing sub triple digit damage in a large mech and it makes one wonder why they bother sometimes.

There has to be a certain level of accountability... sure it's one thing to recognize whether what you did wouldn't make a difference... but there's another to realize they you did nada while coasting to a win. It happens a lot more often in this game due to the skill disparity that exists (and not quite fixable, despite PSR being horribly flawed). I'm just praying some guy isn't shooting LRMs through my back, and that occasionally feels like too much to ask of others.

[RestosIII]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Well, here's where we differ. My experience doesn't mirror yours at all when I run small groups of 2-4. Not remotely. So I bring back my previous comment.

The more relevant question why are you losing 80% of your matches when running small groups? You stance this entire thread has been that it's the "large groups." But as Suko noted, they only make up (according to his stale statistics) maybe 5%. If that's true, then you aren't facing them every match. Maybe once in ten on average.

So while irritating to lose to a seemingly unbeatable kill squad that's taken a tonnage hit for running a 9-man once in a bit, I'm even less convinced now than I was before, that your problematic WLR in small group matches is actually based on that factor.

The rare times I go against my better judgement and try to do drops in group queue, all I see are rows of people with the same tag on both sides, and get crushed by the ascended players we have to deal with because of it. That's not... oh, what's the word for it... Oh, right, fun.

Edited by RestosIII, 03 January 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Deathlike, on 03 January 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

I've always thought there needed to be an intermediate queue - one between groups and solo (2-4 man queue) that would fill the void. I think there's enough smaller groups that form up more than bigger groups, but there's a possibility of eating the potential matchups for bigger groups (5+) that need these people. Big groups are NOT the norm generally speaking.

It's either that or an unranked queue (so people can screw around). This options would require bonuses (XP+Cbills) to the ranked queues, but enough for people to not give a damn about winning... given how some are more casual.

Either way, the NPE is screwed over because there's a lack of intermediate growth (it's deep end in the group queue, unicorns in the solo queue) and not much in between.

We're still lacking in for a solo player to "volunteer themselves" into the group queue in the first place.

But Russ' Buckets!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

The rare times I go against my better judgement and try to do drops in group queue, all I see are rows of people with the same tag on both sides, and get crushed by the ascended players we have to deal with because of it. That's not... oh, what's the word for it... Oh, right, fun.

Sorry, but if you are playing super stock builds like you like to say around these forums, then that's part of your problem. There isn't really ever going to be a carebear group queue where you can play with bad builds and get away with it, not with a population this size. Basically, you want the competitive players (by competitive I mean those who try and win with what they deem effective, not those that play comp) to be in a separate queue because otherwise you will always run into this problem. The problem with that is there isn't a population to support that separation of buckets by means of a ranked queue, at least imo.

[Revis Volek]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

The rare times I go against my better judgement and try to do drops in group queue, all I see are rows of people with the same tag on both sides, and get crushed by the ascended players we have to deal with because of it. That's not... oh, what's the word for it... Oh, right, fun.

and my experience is the exact opposite most the time.

Id rather slam my head into marble some nights then play solo with the knuckle dragging mouth breathers the human race classifies as people these days.


Group queue is much better experience all the time, even when we dont win. So to each his own i guess...

Edited by Revis Volek, 03 January 2017 - 05:04 PM.

[RestosIII]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 January 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

Sorry, but if you are playing super stock builds like you like to say around these forums, then that's part of your problem. There isn't really ever going to be a carebear group queue where you can play with bad builds and get away with it, not with a population this size. Basically, you want the competitive players (by competitive I mean those who try and win with what they deem effective, not those that play comp) to be in a separate queue because otherwise you will always run into this problem. The problem with that is there isn't a population to support that separation of buckets by means of a ranked queue, at least imo.

Oh **** you. No, I don't run lore builds in group and expect to do well. The closest thing I've done in that regard is just the 2 PPC Linebacker. Every other drop was in are the sort of garbage you see slung everywhere as "good". If it was my builds making it un-fun, I'd not be complaining about it, since I already know how to tell if it's a build that's making me do crap from my solo experience.

[Lukoi Banacek]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

The rare times I go against my better judgement and try to do drops in group queue, all I see are rows of people with the same tag on both sides, and get crushed by the ascended players we have to deal with because of it. That's not... oh, what's the word for it... Oh, right, fun.

Which flies in the face of all of the "stats" being marched out on this thread about group populations, so again, oh...what's the word for it....oh right, hyperbole.

All kidding aside though, if there so many large groups on BOTH sides and you're not getting wins or having fun....is it the group(s) or the common denominator?

[Revis Volek]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

Which flies in the face of all of the "stats" being marched out on this thread about group populations, so again, oh...what's the word for it....oh right, hyperbole.

All kidding aside though, if there so many large groups on BOTH sides and you're not getting wins or having fun....is it the group(s) or the common denominator?

If you cant beat em, join em.


Isn't that what they say?