366 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

BattleBunny, on 04 January 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

The problem is that two good players dropping in a solo environment will wreck face. There is a massive advantage to playing with a player you know very well and that knows you.

^ This.

And regarding the OP's request to limit groups to 4... a 4-man group of good players will still wreck face in the group queue.

What we actually need is for a functioning matchmaker that stops putting potatoes with and against experienced players. That would also require Tier system that distributes skill across 5 tiers, instead of moving everyone up to Tier 1 over time.

[Tahribator]

I actually refuse to play in large BMMU groups anymore. It's not challenging for me and it's not fair for the opposing team.

I'd be alright if they brought back the limit of 4 and introduced the class limitations again (so no more 4-5 assault drops). It'd make the game more enjoyable overall.

[TercieI]

Tahribator, on 04 January 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

I actually refuse to play in large BMMU groups anymore. It's not challenging for me and it's not fair for the opposing team.

I'd be alright if they brought back the limit of 4 and introduced the class limitations again (so no more 4-5 assault drops). It'd make the game more enjoyable overall.

I want to see 4-man ranked queue so bad. Even 8s composed of lances of exactly 4. That would actually allow decent MM in group queue rather than the Tetris salad we have now.

[C E Dwyer]

ACrispyTaco, on 03 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Please limit the maximum number of people you can bring into a match to 1 full Lance. This is really frustrating for new players and for me as a returning player to see this is STILL happening. Let these try hard Clans go play a Faction match if they want to play with 12 people.

No because group play is group play they already have limitations on tonnage.

No other game does a solo queue with purely solo's, other developers games have groups in that limit size. Now if your going to say put limited size groups two people, maybe max of three in solo play then sure you have a winner

[Throat Punch]

It's so weird...I took a hiatus about a year back and there were discussions back then on this very same topic with the exact same arguments on both sides of the spectrum. It's like walking back into my parents house on Thanksgiving and hearing Uncle Joe and Grandpa Terry having the same political argument they have had for 20 years. It feels good to be home.

Edited by Mors Draco, 04 January 2017 - 07:45 AM.

[Ghogiel]

2 mans in solo queue would be ggclose. It's nearly enough in group queue considering how things stand with the potato level no MM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

1453 R, on 04 January 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

So...in one paragraph, you've claimed that everyone who isn't in an 8-deep SupahStack is a Derpalong Sally nimnimnim who cannot exist in a world without seals to club.

You're ignoring the many stated difficulties in "growing your group of friends" for people who wish to play their own 'Mechs and designs, or folks who have difficulty easily extending trust to hundreds of random jack#sses on the intarwebz, simply because you, personally, do not face those difficulties and find enjoyment in working with a tightly coordinated, heavily regulated MilSpec-style team.

And have claimed that anyone who does not enjoy piloting all assault 'Mechs all the time forever and ever more is too dumb to live.

...gotcha. Good to know.



Sarcasm is a wonderful tool to dismiss issues you don't want to acknowledge, isn't it?



A'ight...a'ight, can we stop this right here?

Despite my deep apprehensions about the system prior to implementation, I'm usually one of the most active players in any given game on integrated VoIP, calling out enemy positions, requesting repositioning when a teammate is overextended or the group in general is in a bad place. I don't run off on my own to play Solid Snake, I don't charge blindly into the teeth of enemy firing lines and then yell at people who didn't jump into the spike pit with me.

I'm not That Guy.

But I am also not going to do that Twiafu thing where I invite every rando I see into my home and my heart, give them the codes for every third-party voice system I have, and tell them they are now my bestest buddy for life, and in the doing open myself up to the constant, neverending stream of hateful, venomous abuse that the average screeching jack#ss in this game levies at anyone and everyone who does not do exactly what they feel the extremely narrow definition of Acceptable Winning Things in MWO is.

Not playing a Metamechs fit, down to the very last point of armor distribution? Heaps of invective.

Not playing to the standards of coordination and physical skill expected of top-level tournament players? Heaps of invective.

Painted your 'Mech blue instead of red? Heaps of invective.

Dared to play on Tuesday? Heaps of invective.

There is a reason I play with people I trust, not LFG sh!theads looking for a million and three excuses and every target they can find to vent their spleen on any time they take a PPC shot they shouldn't have because they put themselves six hundred meters ahead of the main body of their team in a Metamechs Warhammer specifically tagged as being for coordinated prebuilt twelve-man tournament teams only.

I don't trust the average MWO player further than I can throw my nonexistent Spirit Bear. I don't trust them to have the first clue what they're doing, and I don't trust them not to be a raging #sshole blaming everyone and everything around themselves - violently, and at high volume - when things go wrong for them. I'm not going to invite that experience any more than I already have to deal with it on in-game VoIP, especially as that exact issue is the reason I didn't want in-game VoIP in the first place.



Piranha may've never said that solos don't belong in Commodity Warfare.

Commodity Warfare players have stated, repeatedly and with all the poisonous vitriol I talked about above, that solos don't belong in Commodity Warfare.

CW was supposed to be the Organized Unit Queue, where players with cooling vests and neurohelmets hanging in their closet could really chew into Fighting For The Inner Sphere™ without the distraction of people who don't know the history lineage of their chosen faction for the last four hundred years. CW was for Serious BattleTech People, and would accept Serious Competitive Team people mostly because they liked winning. But regular guys looking to simply play MechWarrior could just f*** right off.

And again - I'd like to know what magical piece of teamwork I'm not doing when I drop in a game. Any game. Because I don't really have a 'Solo' mode and a 'Groupie' mode; I play pretty mcuh the same way in both queues, making the same calls, adhering to the same distance and grouping rules. I'm still T3 because I don't play as often as I used to (in large part because of this very issue), and because I'm an aggressive-minded individual who does tend to pull the trigger on pushing into enemy openings earlier than the average nimnimnim is comfortable with, but other than my tendency to try and do damage rather than hide behind rocks, I'm really not sure what I'm missing here.

Please do let me know, eh?

Since you insist on paraphrasing, incorrectly, what I am writing here and before, I will clarify for you.

I have never denigrated anyone for rolling with less than 8 or whatever arbitrary number you want to toss up. Merely that the smaller you go, you understand their are trade offs for that decision. The same goes for choosing to go in under tonned, or in bad builds etc. When I run twin hunchbacks with a buddy of mine, I recognize I am not using all of the options available to me in our two man group, own my decision to do so. I adjust my expectations and playstyle accordingly. Surprisingly, my WLR remains over 1.0 even then, so clearly it might not be the large group boogieman out there.

You keep stating that my enjoyment stems from running with some large, "mil spec" team constantly, while ignoring what I have actually said about how I play because it fits your narrative. 75% solo, with SMALL GROUP, faction play and a couple of sessions in a week of what you would call large group queue in a week. So again, my enjoyment of this gake runs the gamut. I manage my expectations and adjust my playstyle based on how I am playing it. Soloing allows for tactics and antics that you simply wont get away with in group queue for example.

Ive never said dont pilot what you want, the builds you like, the color scheme you wanna paint on it. Ive said OWN your decision and manage your expectations. Its what I have to do if I wanna join a four man of LCT. Why is anyone else different?

Dont sweat my sarcasm when you were the first to use it or do you remember you all caps commentary that was also colorful, incorrect paraphrasing? I recognize and have offered multiple options for the NPe that many people hold up as excuses for the small groups in solo queue conversation. Doesnt mean small groups need to be in solo queue though, because some people dont like their experience in group queue however.

So, some guys give you a hard time about your choice to play a blue mech on a Tuesday (the hyperbole is strong in this one); why dors that justify taking small groups into solo queue or capping group queue at 4, 6, 8 etc? Its online gaming. Im n9t sanctioning or condoning boorish behavior, but it ultimately isnt a justification for anything you are proposing here. Online game is inherently a nasty environment, full of spleen venting fucktards with MWO being no different. I dont use VOIP partially for that reason, and I ignore crybabies in chat f9r exactly that reason. None of that behavior will stop if queue caps are installed, so how does it even apply as justification.

As to the lengthy paragraph decrying the "commodity warfare" movement....lol, this is just funny stuff. So again, SOME people dont soloists in FP. Some may have advocated for unit only involvement. They dont represent all of us who like to play FP n9r do they speak for all of us. Keep the generalizations, they just weaken your arguement. PGI allows non units, and soloists in FP. Its as simple as that. PGI never said FP was meant to remove the large groups from QP, nor did some community movement. Where you get this "supposed to be..." stuff is beyond me.

I play MWO casually, daily. I run it solo, in small groups, large groups, FP, competitive leagues and enjoy them all. But they are different experiences. If you want to discuss the differences sometime, we absolutely can but those differences arent necessarily relevant to this thread and would quickly fill up a whole page of its own. Solo queue is looser, small groups in group queue need to play tighter and put a premium on situational awareness. Under tonning or bringing fun builds, usually means sacrificing something else behavior wise because in group queue errors compound quickly. Your stated aggressiveness means you might need to be cagier in your timing/choosing to unleash it (because there,is nothing wrong with aggressiveness in group queue.

[RestosIII]

'reads some of the vitriol here about how anyone wanting 2-man groups is a bad player that just wants to stomp seals, or antisocial ******** that "hate teamwork and cooperation" '

Okay, that's it. I'd rather chew off my own index fingers than deal with this **** any more. Have fun trying to make them see any reason other than "We're whiny entitled babies" 1453 R, I'm done.

Only thing I'm leaving behind is to anyone that says "Make an alt account to play with your new friend". Group queue has no PSR MM to speak of. That means, if I went and made an alt account to play with a new friend, we'd still be facing the T1 stomp crews I face already. So that's not an option.

[BattleBunny]

RestosIII, on 04 January 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

if I went and made an alt account to play with a new friend, we'd still be facing the T1 stomp crews I face already. So that's not an option.

I've done it a few times and it works fine. Sure, one in 10 matches or so you meet ppl you shouldnt, But most of the time I meet that underhive of unitless groups that i dont get to see normally.

Edited by BattleBunny, 04 January 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RestosIII, on 04 January 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

That means, if I went and made an alt account to play with a new friend, we'd still be facing the T1 stomp crews I face already. So that's not an option.

And here we have arrived at the real problem, the fact that the MM is releasing valves to often because the population can't really support them with the valves unless people want to wait 30 minutes for a match (I'm hypothesizing here).

[Roughneck45]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 January 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

And here we have arrived at the real problem, the fact that the MM is releasing valves to often because the population can't really support them with the valves unless people want to wait 30 minutes for a match (I'm hypothesizing here).

We were there on page 4 hahaha.

No matter what PGI does to grouping or the matchmaker, someone is going to feel stomped and make a thread about it. Low player population with a massive learning curve, custom built mechs, and a 1 life per round system make for a very hostile new player experience.

Edited by Roughneck45, 04 January 2017 - 08:55 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

RestosIII, on 04 January 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

'reads some of the vitriol here about how anyone wanting 2-man groups is a bad player that just wants to stomp seals, or antisocial ******** that "hate teamwork and cooperation" '

Okay, that's it. I'd rather chew off my own index fingers than deal with this **** any more. Have fun trying to make them see any reason other than "We're whiny entitled babies" 1453 R, I'm done.

Only thing I'm leaving behind is to anyone that says "Make an alt account to play with your new friend". Group queue has no PSR MM to speak of. That means, if I went and made an alt account to play with a new friend, we'd still be facing the T1 stomp crews I face already. So that's not an option.

I wont defend any vitriol that may have been posted, but I will ask this. Given the significant number of people on this thread who all run small groups often enough to experiece the ups and downs of group queue readily enough, but dont agree with you two, why do you think that is?

If all of these guys are going into group queue in small groups, whats the difference between your perception of the challenges and theirs? I mean, we all run casual mechs and dumbshit from time to time, so whats the difference?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Roughneck45, on 04 January 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

We were there on page 4 hahaha.

No matter what PGI does to grouping or the matchmaker, someone is going to feel stomped and make a thread about it. Low player population with a massive learning curve, custom built mechs, and a 1 life per round system make for a very hostile new player experience.

And the NPE wont be fixed by allowing duos or trios into solo queue or capping group queue regardless.

NPE is its own very specific issue, one that needs a tailored, major overhaul with a progressive model to assist them dipping their toes into a prescribed shallow end with our without a mentor type player 8f we want it to succeed in spite of low population. The game is not and has not for sometime, been self regulating via MM, so these options proposed dont address anything.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

I mean, we all run casual mechs and dumbshit from time to time, so whats the difference?

2-Man Dragon Slayer carry.

Making Dragon Slayers Great Again.

[Johnny Z]

Lukoi Banacek, on 04 January 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

And the NPE wont be fixed by allowing duos or trios into solo queue or capping group queue regardless.

NPE is its own very specific issue, one that needs a tailored, major overhaul with a progressive model to assist them dipping their toes into a prescribed shallow end with our without a mentor type player 8f we want it to succeed in spite of low population. The game is not and has not for sometime, been self regulating via MM, so these options proposed dont address anything.

Npe can be improved a lot allowing 2 mans into regular queue like every other game out there, as someone mentioned recently.

[Gas Guzzler]

Johnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Npe can be improved a lot allowing 2 mans into regular queue like every other game out there, as someone mentioned recently.

And just let Proton and Heimdelight run a 2-man with KDK-3s in the solo queue? Sounds fun.... for them.

[Johnny Z]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 January 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

And just let Proton and Heimdelight run a 2-man with KDK-3s in the solo queue? Sounds fun.... for them.

I know how matches work in group queue.

I promise their stats will drop like a rock in regular queue. They wont drop in regular queue much. That's also a promise.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 January 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[xTrident]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 January 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

And just let Proton and Heimdelight run a 2-man with KDK-3s in the solo queue? Sounds fun.... for them.

On the flip side, how often would your average group of two run into them? I think the ownage a group of two in solo queue is over exaggerated just as much as a group of two in solo queue having no effect on the outcome is under exaggerated.

I really think what would happen is solo queue would fill up with a bunch of two-mans, or maybe one side would have a number of two-mans while the other just has pugs. There are negatives to that situation as well.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 January 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

And just let Proton and Heimdelight run a 2-man with KDK-3s in the solo queue? Sounds fun.... for them.

This would turn into a farming extravaganza immediately.

[Gas Guzzler]

Johnny Z, on 04 January 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

I know how matches work in group queue.

I promise their stats will drop like a rock in regular queue. They wont drop in regular queue much. That's also a promise.

Considering I do a large portion of my drops in the solo queue, I can say that that is not really the case. W/L would probably go down, but its pretty easy to farm damage and kills in the solo queue, even if your team loses.