198 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 January 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

"Bad". Since when was your opinion fact?

about as factual as yours.

But hey, enjoy.

[Chados]

Current TTK isn't that bad 1v1 and assuming no encounters with Kodiaks or...ahem...electronic "assists." I usually run IS mechs in the solo queue by choice and since my group decided to go Clans, Clan Wave 3 omnimechs or Summoners in FW, when I have to do that. I have Marauder IICs but they draw way too much aggro for them to be fun for me right now. Just about anything is going to melt like butter on a hot August afternoon when six enemy mechs are focusing ballistics on you all at once while the other six are pounding you into the ground with Clan LRMs.

Running as IS I typically run in the Phoenix Hawk, Catapult, Rifleman, Dragon, Quickdraw, Victor. Not the greatest mechs, and I'm not the greatest pilot. But often I have pretty good games if RNG and positioning goes my way. At least, I have decent matches often enough that I'm on the high side of T3 right now.

[LtTr0g]

Id like things to live a bit longer and maps shaped toward more open trading. The speed things die in coordinated groups doesnt feel very fun if you happen to be the guy that gets called primary, nor does it feel like you are in a 90ton chunk of armour

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

about as factual as yours.

But hey, enjoy.

Im not pretending my opinion is fact so yeah.. I guess.

That being said, trying to change the state of MechWarrior to serve your personal desires is kind of lame.

[Wil McCullough]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

that's a given, and obviously NOT what is being discussed. Potatoes will be Potatoes.

it was an off-shoot point relevant to anjian's post about focus fire.

if you were looking for something relevant to the rest of the posts on this topic, look at the remaining 2/3 of what i wrote.

on a side note, it's really quite funny how most of the proponents of increased ttk want it because they feel they die too fast for a stompy robot game.

killing enemy stompy robots quickly - ok. dying just as quickly - not ok.

seriously.

[AssaultPig]

imo there's two complimentary problems:

1) long range damage is a bit too high: too many mechs (especially non-assault mechs) are capable of putting a 40-50 point alpha ~600m downrange

2) short range weapons are not effective enough to reward the effort/risk involved in getting to short range.

so most pilots default toward bog-standard long-range alpha builds because 1) they know many other pilots run them and want to be able to trade effectively and 2) they know that if/when it does come to a brawl their long-range build will still be reasonably useful. This leads to extremely timid gameplay, as most pilots want to fire once or twice then spend time cooling and prioritize not absorbing enemy alphas over doing damage.

[Anjian]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 January 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Your 3 game sample size does not convince me.

Also, how are the hitboxes compared to MWO? Are there 8 distinct armored locations?

I didn't bother to mention a few other games I am exploring, in which case, it would be a seven game sample size --- Fractured Space, War Robots, Armored Warfare, and Dreadnought.

[Anjian]

AssaultPig, on 08 January 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

imo there's two complimentary problems:

1) long range damage is a bit too high: too many mechs (especially non-assault mechs) are capable of putting a 40-50 point alpha ~600m downrange

2) short range weapons are not effective enough to reward the effort/risk involved in getting to short range.

so most pilots default toward bog-standard long-range alpha builds because 1) they know many other pilots run them and want to be able to trade effectively and 2) they know that if/when it does come to a brawl their long-range build will still be reasonably useful. This leads to extremely timid gameplay, as most pilots want to fire once or twice then spend time cooling and prioritize not absorbing enemy alphas over doing damage.

That is basically why other games have a dispersion mechanic. At range, shots are not as accurate or starts spreading out, the result of which damage falls off, while optimal DPS is attained fairly close.

[Weeny Machine]

Ultimax, on 06 January 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

TTK is fine.

If you feel like this is counter strike then you have either never actually played counter strike or you are just really bad at this game.

...or you play a Jenner IIC or some (not all) mechs of the light mech class

Juodas Varnas, on 06 January 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

I blame the clans and the absolutely insane level of power-creep they introduced.


I'd nerf every single variable - from twist-speed, to turn-speed, to weapon cooldowns and durations.
EVERYTHING.

Come to think of it, agiliity is really one of the problems. Heavies and assaults have an easy time to keep people in their line of fire. Someone did the maths (can't be bothered to dig out the thread) and it showed that a KGC is able to fire in their rear within 1,5 sec.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 09 January 2017 - 06:53 AM.

[RangerGee412]

If the deathball went away tomorrow, ttk would be pretty good. If most combat happened between lances or less ttk would be fine.

It's getting shot by 4, 5, 6 mechs that causes most of the problems. Everyone obviously tries not to be shot by that many mechs at once, but **** happens.

Yes some builds are also a problem, but if they a little spread but MAYBE they wouldn't be as big of a problem.

Edited by RangerGee412, 09 January 2017 - 08:06 AM.

[Funky Bacon]

It took me the whole match to fight a Cicada and Artic Cheeta in my Jenner. Can I say TTK is too high?

[Gas Guzzler]

Anjian, on 09 January 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

I didn't bother to mention a few other games I am exploring, in which case, it would be a seven game sample size --- Fractured Space, War Robots, Armored Warfare, and Dreadnought.

Are their 8 distinct armor locations that you can actually hit multiple of with one shot if you have to lead your target, firing two weapons?

I'd like to see what TTK is in those games, under focus fire from 4-6 enemies.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 09 January 2017 - 09:14 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Funky Bacon, on 09 January 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

It took me the whole match to fight a Cicada and Artic Cheeta in my Jenner. Can I say TTK is too high?

Maybe you should aim for the legs...

[Funky Bacon]

Bush Hopper, on 09 January 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

Maybe you should aim for the legs...

Forgot to mention the fight took place in waist high water. I do believe water still reduces damage, but maybe it doesn't anymore?

[Corrado]

Snazzy Dragon, on 06 January 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

I would start with the heat scale-- alpha striking was a latch ditch move in a lot of cases, and rarely resorted to. In MWO, it is the norm.

In BattleTech rules the heat cap never exceeds 30 units on a battlemech but in MWO we can easily reach more than double that, and we have far less heat generation because of general heat reductions and heat reduction quirks.

I would start by soft capping heat capacity at 35 and hard capping at 45, and making heat dissipation much better. We could still alpha but it would not be wise on a lot of our current builds. With higher dissipation to make up for it sustained DPS mechs would still be relevant and laser boats would be able to cool off after attacking still.

Yes there would still be gauss + PPC, but firing once with 2 ER PPCs would put them close to 30 heat, very close to the maximum cap.

Proper heat penalties would also be in order; if you are constantly pushing your mech up to 90% you should be suffering from reduced mobility and stressed heat sinks that are not quite as effective as they would be normally.

TTK would not be dramatically lower but it would be lower-- and we didn't have discuss something crazy like non-automatic convergence or energy draw.

heat cap? there aren't too many dual gauss builds around? want to turn the game in a 2gauss+erppc gyr and 4gauss kodiaks bar nothingelse game?

No.

[Gas Guzzler]

Corrado, on 09 January 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

heat cap? there aren't too many dual gauss builds around? want to turn the game in a 2gauss+erppc gyr and 4gauss kodiaks bar nothingelse game?

No.

As usual its a poorly thought out suggestion that only considers a fraction of the relevant data.

For the forums, this is the status quo.

[Anjian]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 January 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

Are their 8 distinct armor locations that you can actually hit multiple of with one shot if you have to lead your target, firing two weapons?

I'd like to see what TTK is in those games, under focus fire from 4-6 enemies.

No, but some games have extremely high HP. You can easily see 120,000 hp on War Robots for example. And the game has respawns. You can view YouTube videos for the other games but I will leave one for example.

WR's format is 6 v 6 with limited respawns, namely the number of mechs in your preset, like your FW, and similar to War Thunder's.

As I mentioned, TTK has to be within a spawn vs. respawn context. IMO, MWO's TTK is too low for single spawn, but is perfectly right for a respawn format.

As for TTK under deathball situations, that is assuming the game even allows for deathballs. I am putting this YouTube video from another game and it shows you a few things:

Very high HP (see the top corner of the display)
Shot dispersion --- the gatling guns increase their DPS when the distances close, as the spray cone tightens. The shotguns, like LBX, also has shot dispersion, the closer the more damage they make.
No deathballing, though focus fire is important for winning.
Respawns
Less camp (the game rewards the top 3 in the winning team a small amount of gold coins; capping the objectives are a big factor for player ranking; gold coins can be used to purchase premium mechs and weapons).

This makes me want to study how game design affects fundamental game play.

Edited by Anjian, 09 January 2017 - 08:56 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

How do I feel about the current TTK? ...

... I feel that 99 out of 100 people who discuss TTK on this forum don't even understand what TTK is, let alone are able to give a clear definition of what it is. Thus I feel that every such discussion is utterly pointless.

1v1 TTK is perfectly fine, anything else you come up with isn't TTK its TTKTIWPAVADM (Time To Kill That Idiot Who Peeks Alone Vs A Dozen Mechs).

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Thats not the TT with Dice Pilots thats not hit a 60kmh fast 12m Tall Target , and not can aim to a Cockpit by a Shutdown Mech in 30m, Pilots in TT like Pilots fight with no Sight (take off the monitor by all Players in MWO=Higher TTK) ..give MWO Systemerrors for Hits, destroyed Gyros, More difficult Movement (strumbling to ground by less many Tons of Amor and Systems) Weaponerrors by Weaponshits and take away the Mechlab =higher TTK

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 13 January 2017 - 03:39 AM.