52 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

NARC is literally a death sentence to slow assaults, cause the main counter is to not get hit in the first place.

So i propose two counters:

1.) Shutdown

This allows mechs to completely negate the NARC, but at the cost of actually being out of the fight for about 20s, longer with quirks. A lot can happen during that time, also maybe none in a massive map like polar highlands where the distance is usually large.

2.) Consumable

A one-time consumable can be fair enough, cause that is just a single chance of being free from a NARC. It's also not a guarantee that you'll get narced every match so that's one locked consumable slot.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I wouldn't mind a consumable that flushes it as a one time use.

[Hit the Deck]

The6thMessenger, on 09 January 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

...
1.) Shutdown

This allows mechs to completely negate the NARC, but at the cost of actually being out of the fight for about 20s, longer with quirks. A lot can happen during that time, also maybe none in a massive map like polar highlands where the distance is usually large.
...

How could this negate NARC?

Unless if you just consider it as a game mechanic.

EDIT: and the same thing can be said about TAG.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 09 January 2017 - 02:47 AM.

[Peter2k]

Fair enough

Shutting down is also ok
You still have to take the LRMs coming for you

[Tristan Winter]

I know this is not the sort of counter you meant, but it would be nice if PGI gave us XP and C-bill rewards for using AMS when nearby mechs are being targeted by guided missiles and for covering NARCed targets with ECM. Something like 5000 C-bills every 10 seconds or whatever.

In a perfect world, it would be nice if mechs with hand actuators could remove the NARC with their hands. A man can dream.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Tristan Winter, on 09 January 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

I know this is not the sort of counter you meant, but it would be nice if PGI gave us XP and C-bill rewards for using AMS when nearby mechs are being targeted by guided missiles and for covering NARCed targets with ECM. Something like 5000 C-bills every 10 seconds or whatever.

In a perfect world, it would be nice if mechs with hand actuators could remove the NARC with their hands. A man can dream.

The counterargument is that AMS would be an absolute moneymaker, everyone would mount it, and LRMs would be even more useless, and they'd have to be buffed--- again.

[El Bandito]

Make Narc beacon targetable entity, and allow Flamers and Machineguns to peel off Narc. This will expand the usage of those two weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 January 2017 - 04:56 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

The counterargument is that AMS would be an absolute moneymaker, everyone would mount it, and LRMs would be even more useless, and they'd have to be buffed--- again.

Just add it as Match score or something. It doesn't have to be a complete money maker, just enough to be a damn contribution. Exhausted 6000 AMS ammo could at least amount to 150 match score or something.

[Tristan Winter]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

The counterargument is that AMS would be an absolute moneymaker, everyone would mount it, and LRMs would be even more useless, and they'd have to be buffed--- again.

I really don't understand your argument at all. First of all, AMS is arguably the least used equipment in MWO after CASE and Command Console. Very few people use it, unless they can equip 2 or 3 AMS on their mech. Second of all, it's just a matter of balancing the income. When you call it an "absolute moneymaker", you're just assuming that it would bank 100,000 extra C-bills per match, because that validates your argument. Third, if LRMs would actually be even more useless and would need to be buffed, then why is that a problem? You're calling LRMs useless (which, obviously, they're not) and then implying that it's a bad thing if they were buffed.

In a game with virtually zero role warfare, the whole interaction between guided missiles, radars, ECM, NARC, AMS, etc, is one of the few cases where cooperation between mechs can create a force multiplier. And yet, there's virtually nothing in the reward system that incentivizes it. NARCing provides virtually zero rewards and using AMS for your team provides literally zero rewards.

It makes no sense.

[Hit the Deck]

Tristan Winter, on 09 January 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

...
In a perfect world, it would be nice if mechs with hand actuators could remove the NARC with their hands. A man can dream.

Ha!

And those tiny hands are faster to remove sticky NARCs because they are more precise and dexterous:

[The6thMessenger]

Tristan Winter, on 09 January 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

In a game with virtually zero role warfare, the whole interaction between guided missiles, radars, ECM, NARC, AMS, etc, is one of the few cases where cooperation between mechs can create a force multiplier. And yet, there's virtually nothing in the reward system that incentivizes it. NARCing provides virtually zero rewards and using AMS for your team provides literally zero rewards.

TAG Kill, TAG Damage, TAG stealth etc. NARC Kill too, not to mention that NARC can actually be deadly amongst hungry lurmers. AMS on the other hand, well 3x AMS Kitfox or Nova can be a boon sure, but not as rewarding, not to mention that they actually used 1.5t + 3t of ammo to get such protection.

[Snazzy Dragon]

The6thMessenger, on 09 January 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

Just add it as Match score or something. It doesn't have to be a complete money maker, just enough to be a damn contribution. Exhausted 6000 AMS ammo could at least amount to 150 match score or something.

Match score should reflect on your personal performance as a pilot, not the automated weapon that inflates your score simply because you put it there.

[The6thMessenger]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 03:04 AM, said:

Match score should reflect on your personal performance as a pilot, not the automated weapon that inflates your score simply because you put it there.

Like Lance in Formation, Protected Light and Protected Medium, Flanking etc.

To be fair, as a pilot you chose to put your AMS there, and you have to position yourself to protect your team (positioning).

Maybe the AMS match-score should only work on allied LRM locks. Would that be a good compromise?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 09 January 2017 - 03:07 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

Honestly how many times does annybody get NARC'd and killed? On any map other than Polar/Caustic/Alpine it is largely your own fault. Sure it is a giant pain in the butt when it happens but it doesn't seem all that common to me.

I think this is like a fear of flying - statistically it is the safest form of travel - but people's anxiety stems from the fact they have no control over the situation IF something were to happen.

Given the low incidence of you ever dying or taking serious damage due to NARC it there seems to be an unduly large amount of wailing and gnashing going on.

[Pjwned]

I was under the impression that shutting down is supposed to counter NARC already.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

I was under the impression that shutting down is supposed to counter NARC already.

It's an external tracking beacon-- if you turn off your car but the GPS system inside it isn't turned off, does the GPS tracking still work?

[Tristan Winter]

The6thMessenger, on 09 January 2017 - 03:02 AM, said:

TAG Kill, TAG Damage, TAG stealth etc. NARC Kill too, not to mention that NARC can actually be deadly amongst hungry lurmers. AMS on the other hand, well 3x AMS Kitfox or Nova can be a boon sure, but not as rewarding, not to mention that they actually used 1.5t + 3t of ammo to get such protection.

I know TAG bonuses exist. That doesn't mean AMS or NARC bonuses (in addition to the existing NARC Kill) shouldn't exist.

When we get bonuses for stuff like countering ECM or using TAG, I don't see why we shouldn't get a bonus for using AMS or NARC or ECM.

[Pjwned]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 03:32 AM, said:

It's an external tracking beacon-- if you turn off your car but the GPS system inside it isn't turned off, does the GPS tracking still work?

And yet when you shut down you can't be targeted unless a nearby enemy has BAP.

Either way I don't really care about your example because I care about how it actually works, and last I heard it does (or is supposed to) work to shut down your mech to avoid NARC tracking; if you don't have a real answer to that then I don't care very much what you have to say in response to what I said.

[El Bandito]

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

Either way I don't really care about your example because I care about how it actually works, and last I heard it does (or is supposed to) work to shut down your mech to avoid NARC tracking; if you don't have a real answer to that then I don't care very much what you have to say in response to what I said.

I shut down once after being NARCed. Didn't stop the LRMs coming from over the hill. So I am skeptical of the whole "shut down to negate NARC" argument.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

And yet when you shut down you can't be targeted unless a nearby enemy has BAP.

Either way I don't really care about your example because I care about how it actually works, and last I heard it does (or is supposed to) work to shut down your mech to avoid NARC tracking; if you don't have a real answer to that then I don't care very much what you have to say in response to what I said.

It's an external tracking beacon. Why would powering off also power off something that is not a part of your mech, and is in fact a hostile tracking device.