52 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

The6thMessenger, on 09 January 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

NARC is literally a death sentence to slow assaults, cause the main counter is to not get hit in the first place.
[...]

I play "slow" assaults 90% of the time.
I get NARCed a lot.
I never get significantly lurmed after beind narced, except if I made a REALLY big mistake that makes me think "yeah, lurm me down, I deserve it for being so stupid".

Conclusion:

If you play properly (thinking ahead, using cover, using range, having combat awareness), neither Lurms nor Lurms plus NARC are a problem.

Maybe what's missing is a module that increases a pilot's skill of tactical thinking. Just a thought.

[Pjwned]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

I shut down once after being NARCed. Didn't stop the LRMs coming from over the hill. So I am skeptical of the whole "shut down to negate NARC" argument.

Were those LRMs already mid-flight when you shut down, or did the rain just keep on coming?

I'm not saying I can't be wrong, but I recall that shutting down was supposed to be effective against NARC.

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 04:45 AM, said:

It's an external tracking beacon. Why would powering off also power off something that is not a part of your mech, and is in fact a hostile tracking device.

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

And yet when you shut down you can't be targeted unless a nearby enemy has BAP.

Either way I don't really care about your example because I care about how it actually works, and last I heard it does (or is supposed to) work to shut down your mech to avoid NARC tracking; if you don't have a real answer to that then I don't care very much what you have to say in response to what I said.

Should I repeat myself again or do you think you can sort out your reading comprehension?

I think I will repeat myself one more time for good measure, just to be sure.

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

And yet when you shut down you can't be targeted unless a nearby enemy has BAP.

Either way I don't really care about your example because I care about how it actually works, and last I heard it does (or is supposed to) work to shut down your mech to avoid NARC tracking; if you don't have a real answer to that then I don't care very much what you have to say in response to what I said.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

Were those LRMs already mid-flight when you shut down, or did the rain just keep on coming?

I'm not saying I can't be wrong, but I recall that shutting down was supposed to be effective against NARC.





Should I repeat myself again or do you think you can sort out your reading comprehension?

I think I will repeat myself one more time for good measure, just to be sure.

Have you ever noticed that when you lock on to someone that is narced but has no LOS lock on them, you can never get their target information?

That's because you are locking on to the NARC. If they shut down, you can still lock on to the NARC. I think YOU fail to understand how an EXTERNAL TRACKING DEVICE works.

[El Bandito]

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

Were those LRMs already mid-flight when you shut down, or did the rain just keep on coming?

Obviously it kept coming. Map was Caustic, and the enemy was on the other side. Maaaybe there was a UAV, but I don't know if UAV actually reveals shut down mechs.

[Hit the Deck]

BTW I never saw the player "NARCBait" again.

Was fun when he dropped with you, either on your or the opposing side.

[Pjwned]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 05:01 AM, said:

Have you ever noticed that when you lock on to someone that is narced but has no LOS lock on them, you can never get their target information?

I haven't noticed that actually and that's the first I've heard of that.

Quote

That's because you are locking on to the NARC. If they shut down, you can still lock on to the NARC.

And yet it seems unusually difficult to conclusively say "shutting down isn't effective against NARC" with the roundabout argument you're making.

Quote

I think YOU fail to understand how an EXTERNAL TRACKING DEVICE works.

I think you fail to understand that I only care how NARC works here, and you continue to sperg out about something entirely irrelevant as a result.

Nothing I said suggested that I don't "understand how an external tracking device works" and you can go take your meds if you don't like it.

If you're so simple-minded that you can't accept things don't necessarily work as they "should" in a video game then that's pretty sad.

El Bandito, on 09 January 2017 - 05:01 AM, said:

Obviously it kept coming. Map was Caustic, and the enemy was on the other side. Maaaybe there was a UAV, but I don't know if UAV actually reveals shut down mechs.

It's not obvious actually, which is why I asked. Should I read your mind for further details next time?

Just so we're clear though, my point was to ask if you only got hit by LRMs that were already coming towards you, or did you still take fire from extra LRM volleys even after shutting down? I don't always make my point as clear as I could and "keep on coming" is actually a little vague after thinking about it.

Edited by Pjwned, 09 January 2017 - 05:43 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 04:45 AM, said:

It's an external tracking beacon. Why would powering off also power off something that is not a part of your mech, and is in fact a hostile tracking device.

Because balance. Sure, there are times that one must suspend disbelief, there are times that there would be artistic science involved, but something must be done to balance, even if it's against science if it

To be fair however, NARC is detected by the machine itself, so it must be sensed by the machine in a way. Lorewise it uses the mech's own power by actually connecting to the circuitry to the mech, defeating the ECM via virus, until such time that the machine manages to defeat said virus and disable the source, the NARC.

Cause really, in the future they must have powerful small batteries that should have been able to last more than 20 seconds.

Paigan, on 09 January 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

I play "slow" assaults 90% of the time.
I get NARCed a lot.
I never get significantly lurmed after beind narced, except if I made a REALLY big mistake that makes me think "yeah, lurm me down, I deserve it for being so stupid".

Conclusion:

If you play properly (thinking ahead, using cover, using range, having combat awareness), neither Lurms nor Lurms plus NARC are a problem.

Maybe what's missing is a module that increases a pilot's skill of tactical thinking. Just a thought.

Another conclusion, what you said is just anecdotal evidence, it does not account the experience for everyone. It's just your experience either by luck or skill -- i'd say luck.

I understand that positioning is important, so is skill, picking cover etc. etc. But there are just some factors that you alone cannot control, sometimes it befalls on your teammate and being the slow assault it almost always does, and then there are times that your enemy is just better than you, other times you are in polar highlands in the middle of hungry LRM-boats, and the unbalanced NARC is not helping.

Just a thought.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 09 January 2017 - 07:45 AM.

[Novakaine]

Jut carry ams I do.

[C E Dwyer]

So P.G.I waste time making a counter for a weapon that maybe one person in three hundred uses on a regular basis, and that said person has to have reasonable aiming skills to make it work.

A weapon that if it's used, has to be used from no further than 750 meters, from a position where the target can't see you, or is distracted, because if they're not, and see it coming, even an atlas pilot can dodge, because it moves so slowly.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Cathy, on 09 January 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

A weapon that if it's used, has to be used from no further than 750 450 meters, from a position where the target can't see you, or is distracted, because if they're not, and see it coming, even an atlas a dire wolf pilot can dodge, because it moves so slowly.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 09 January 2017 - 09:22 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

The6thMessenger, on 09 January 2017 - 03:02 AM, said:

TAG Kill, TAG Damage, TAG stealth etc. NARC Kill too, not to mention that NARC can actually be deadly amongst hungry lurmers. AMS on the other hand, well 3x AMS Kitfox or Nova can be a boon sure, but not as rewarding, not to mention that they actually used 1.5t + 3t of ammo to get such protection.

I hate the NARC Kill--it only counts if the 'mech dies from LRMs while NARC'd. 95% of damage done by LRMs, but killed by a single SL? No reward for you!

Which also ignores the inherent benefit of a NARC beacon--even without LRMs, you know exactly where X mech is for 20+ seconds.

Hit the Deck, on 09 January 2017 - 05:05 AM, said:

BTW I never saw the player "NARCBait" again.

Was fun when he dropped with you, either on your or the opposing side.

Haven't seen him in a while, but I did play a few times with an expert RVN-3L that talked a lot like NARCBait, which made me wonder if he had simply changed his tag.

[Hit the Deck]

Jables McBarty, on 09 January 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

...
Haven't seen him in a while, but I did play a few times with an expert RVN-3L that talked a lot like NARCBait, which made me wonder if he had simply changed his tag.

Good to know!

It was fun when someone, including him, lit up the whole enemy team in a match with NARCs!

[Chip Danger]

Run AMS. I mean really it kills a slow moving narc round like it's nothing. Unless I'm already getting it with a ton of LRMs anyway I've never had to worry about a narc in my big mechs.

[GrimRiver]

Better idea, make single AMS more viable.

All mechs with single AMS slot gets a boost to it's ROF and damage.

Dual and tri slot AMS stay as is.

Also buff rewards for shooting down whole volley's of LRM's.

In return give bigger c-bill rewards for narc's.

Better yet give more c-bill rewards for support functions than outright damage and kills.

[Andi Nagasia]

i dont see how Shutting down would Stop Narc, as its an external Target Beacon that has its own Power Source,
Consumable, perhaps if its discribed as a Static Pulse to Nutilize the Narcs power,

but i like the 3rd option
Add Melee(For mechs with Hands) and Punch it off them,

[patataman]

AMS and cover. Friendly ECM if you have some in the team. 95% of the times i died to NARC + rain it was my own fault for not positioning well. Running into the center dunes of polar highlands when the other team has 2+ LRM boats and a narcer working together? Bad idea. Use the trenches, even if you are narced, there are plenty of spots when you can cover from all or at least part of the incoming volleys depending on your mech's size.

El Bandito, on 09 January 2017 - 02:51 AM, said:

Make Narc beacon targetable entity, and allow Flamers and Machineguns to peel off Narc. This will expand the usage of those two weapons.

Not sure if serious... but i like this idea. Ahhhh that sutile difference between helping your team mate and becoming a team killer... Since we are there, make the PPC weapon family disrupt the NARC signal for a few seconds, pretty much the way it affects ECM.

On a different line of thought, i would suggest to make missiles (all of them) destructible, so players can shoot them down with regular weapons and a lot of aiming skills and/or luck.

Now that i think of it, i would love if missiles had a tiny blast radius, so launching them while under fire becomes a terrible idea.

[RestosIII]

Hit the Deck, on 09 January 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

Good to know!

It was fun when someone, including him, lit up the whole enemy team in a match with NARCs!

I ran into him again a couple months ago. He's still going strong.

[cazidin]

Are we seriously considering ANOTHER way to nerf LRMS via direct counter, negating or mitigating a tool that enhances LRMs or directly nerfing LRMs?

[Jungle Rhino]

GrimRiver, on 09 January 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

Better idea, make single AMS more viable.

All mechs with single AMS slot gets a boost to it's ROF and damage.

PGI could even make a module for that! Oh hang on...

[A Man In A Can]

Pjwned, on 09 January 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

And yet when you shut down you can't be targeted unless a nearby enemy has BAP.

...last I heard it does (or is supposed to) work to shut down your mech to avoid NARC tracking

Since the patch that allowed Narcs to counter ECM, PGI gave Narc beacons the exact same powers that Active Probes have with a radius of 0. And just like you can't shut down to escape detection from an Active Probe user, the same is true for Narcs.

Now AFAIK, that property has not changed since that patch. Perhaps you can test it with a friend in a private match to see if that property is still true.