62 replies to this topic

[Mechteric]

BadBird, on 09 January 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

The concern I have is that tracking KDR on the leader-boards does have a negative impact on the game. It creates a culture of run and hide at the end of the match among certain players. No one can deny they see this behavior.

I can't say I remember a single game in the last 100 where it was a problem. If it has any impact at all, it is minuscule at best and you're blowing it out of proportion by at least some amount. Just remember it is only a game, and some people take it too seriously, which leads to people either caring too much about their K/D, or losing their minds and creating topics like this about the former group. Try to be neither group, because both are not worth the energy and get in they way of pure enjoyment.

[NighthawK1337]

I think KMDD is also a bad metric since LRMs were invented.

W/L all the way.

[jss78]

Honestly I don't see this very often. I take note when I see it precisely because it's rare.

I agree W/L is the real metric, as far as random solo teams is concerned. At least for my own 'mechs there's a rock-solid relationships between W/L and the 'mechs I consider to do well in. Do something useful, whatever it is, and you win (in the long term).

Group queue is predominantly about how strong your group is vs. the average group you face. I wish we had separate stats for solo/group.

[Revis Volek]

This game has the end all be all stat already though, or at least the closest thing we will get...

Match Score!

It is the most accurate thing we have IMO and reflects your overall consistency very well actually. The only time it isnt really valid (or at least it can get inflated) is FW when you only use ONE mech. But even that is quite a feat most the time....

Davegt27, on 09 January 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

well I don't remember anyone saying anything about KDR

people that run and hide will always run and hide its just there nature

I would like to have stats that are going to help me evaluate my Mechs effectiveness

like kill per drop

also I want to know what effect all those skill and modules have on my game play
(they seem to be missing in FP on the IS side)

you would think for all the time and effort we spend working on the skills and or modules they should raise some sort of stat

but to be honest except for the speed tweak oh and quick ignition I see little effect the skills have at the end results

Madstats bro....

use it.

https://mwomercs.com...-stats-sorting/



Doesn't have everything, but is waaaaay better them PGI's junk.

ITs a browser extension which does stat sorting (which is nice and lostech currently) so you can rank them by k/d () w/l even dmg dealt.

its good.

Edited by Revis Volek, 09 January 2017 - 03:52 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Mystere, on 09 January 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

This should have been done a long time ago.

Difficulties in coding, etc, etc...

[Karl Marlow]

Why not get rid off all the stats and only.display your own. Why do you need to see anyone else's numbers?

[Lyoto Machida]

Karl Marlow, on 09 January 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

Why not get rid off all the stats and only.display your own. Why do you need to see anyone else's numbers?

How can you judge your own performance in a greater context when there are no benchmarks, yardsticks or landmarks (ie: stats of other players) to judge against?

[Karl Marlow]

Lyoto Machida, on 09 January 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

How can you judge your own performance in a greater context when there are no benchmarks, yardsticks or landmarks (ie: stats of other players) to judge against?

You judge it against your own numbers or those willing to brag about their numbers.

[Mawai]

I'd like to see KMDD, components destroyed and several other stats added and the K/D ratio removed though removing KDR from the list would not prevent someone from calculating it themselves. The point would be to de-emphasize KDR since it is pretty meaningless in the first place there is no reason to list it in the stats.

Also, no matter what stats are listed there will be folks who allow the desire for the stats to affect their play.
- if Kills are important then folks will kill steal .. they will target opponents until they find red center torso or other vulnerabilities and they will try to get those kills.
- If KMDD is important then folks will concentrate fire on mechs that are mostly undamaged so that they can get the KMDD. They may worry a bit less about finishing off opponents. They may also switch loadouts to weapons doing less focused damage in order to do more damage ... SRMs and LRMs come to mind.

- Finally, the running away aspect doesn't have to do with Kills or KMDD but reducing the deaths. In game modes other than skirmish, it is possible to survive a loss and thus boost either KMDD/D or K/D by minimizing the number of deaths. As long as deaths matter as part of a ratio then this behaviour is possible.

[Jingseng]

for as long as there was a multiplayer game in which someone kills someone else, there's been a record of kills.

So pretty much this gets filed under Not Gonna Happen.

It would be more fruitful perhaps to discuss what the base/important/balancing stat track should be... but probably not either. Because I seriously doubt PGI is going to encode an AI to track Useful Damage Inflicted or Meaningful Contribution In All Forms To The Success Of Your Team or Damn You Are Pretty Good At This And Know What You Are Doing.

Edit: Better yet would be the player solution of Everyone Stop Giving A Damn About Kills Or Measuring Metrics

Edited by Jingseng, 09 January 2017 - 08:19 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Tarogato, on 09 January 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've always said KDR is pretty meaningless anyways. Because your stats are combined across solo queue and group queue, your KDR depends highly upon your WLR, and your WLR depends highly upon who you play group queue with and how much. So in essence, your KDR depends on who you play with, and is not really a measure of your individual skill.

I'll still try to survive until the end of a match and pick off one more mech before going down.

Yes and no. I recently compared my stats from QP in another thread where a user claimed that mass solo QP drops has a detrimental effect to your KDR/Tier etc. I proved that wrong as my KDR went up over time (irrespective of WLR) in the QPs, and overall match score average (again, WLR has little effect if you play well).
Some of the drops were group, most of them were solo however (mech levelling for the most part).

So while I do agree it does depend who you play with - it is as much about your ability as well.


But yeah 100% - If I know there is a weak mech out of 4-5 left, I will hunt it down (if possible). Nothing to do with KDR. I do it just because he needs to DIE! I've picked off 3-4 mechs at the end to pull off a win quite a few times - no greater feeling than pulling a rabbit outta the hat

[justcallme A S H]

CapperDeluxe, on 09 January 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

I can't say I remember a single game in the last 100 where it was a problem. If it has any impact at all, it is minuscule at best and you're blowing it out of proportion by at least some amount. Just remember it is only a game, and some people take it too seriously, which leads to people either caring too much about their K/D, or losing their minds and creating topics like this about the former group. Try to be neither group, because both are not worth the energy and get in they way of pure enjoyment.

Agreed.

There are a few players out there that are worried about it, however by and large - I don't see it as an issue.

People think you running from 3-4 mechs though is saving your KDR, that is just retreating to find a better position. It's an incorrect perception. Or if one mech goes charging into 4-5, I will pull back. I ain't gonna follow a QP donkey into a killing field/firing line. I'll preposition and try tip the advantage.

The "KDR" savers, they real problem, are the ones that go to the edge of the map and shutdown or run around on purpose for 5mins "pretending" to play/shoot stuff - but they are rare and I can only think of a few people recently I've seen in QPs who do that.

[Jingseng]

justcallme A S H, on 09 January 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

The "KDR" savers, they real problem, are the ones that go to the edge of the map and shutdown or run around on purpose for 5mins "pretending" to play/shoot stuff - but they are rare and I can only think of a few people recently I've seen in QPs who do that.

That's because they are way off the minimap....

[Karl Streiger]

Make Kills relative - for example Mech X got hit by 3 Mechs and got 200dmg before he went down.
Of those 200dmg - 1 dealt 70dmg, 1 dealt 120dmg and the last that get the "kill" dealt 10dmg
With relative tracking: player 1 get 33% dmg, player 2 got 60% and the final player got a 7% kill.

Consider those players shoot two other mechs - player 1 got 40%, player 2 got 40% and player 3 got 20% for the first and 30% 50% 20% for the third.

In the end -
player 1 got 103% = 1 Kill
player 2 got 150% = 1.5 Kills
player 3 got 47% ~ 0.5 Kills

[a gaijin]

Personally I'd like to be able to separate my stats at will by either quick drop or group drop. For comparisons sake.
I'd also like being able to see my KMDD & solo kill stats.
Addition of a "matches survived ratio" stat would be cool.

For curiosity's sake I wish I could also see stats of mechs I've killed sorted by weight class. I also wish we could sort "solo kills" by weight class of mech killed.
I think a humorous stat that could be added would be "kill least damage dealt."

Karl Marlow, on 09 January 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

Why not get rid off all the stats and only.display your own. Why do you need to see anyone else's numbers?

Competition and competitiveness is just human nature.
And it's a good way to see how my own performance measures up in the "grand scheme of things."

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Overwatch style and have no kills/assists and instead have Eliminations?

[Jingseng]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 10 January 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

Overwatch style and have no kills/assists and instead have Eliminations?

does it really matter what you call it? Rose is rose. The problem is what the metrics are being used for "I am awesome" "U R Not Awesome" and not the actual metrics themselves.

To wit:

1) don't use them as such yourself; and

2) ignore those people who try to make a point using them in that fashion.

Edit: nice facing off with you a week ago or so on... frozen city? Or maybe it was more recently....

Edited by Jingseng, 10 January 2017 - 12:41 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

The only one who cares about your stats or public rank is yourself, so there's no need to get rid of any of them.

[Kshahdoo]

Tarogato, on 09 January 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I've always said KDR is pretty meaningless anyways. Because your stats are combined across solo queue and group queue, your KDR depends highly upon your WLR, and your WLR depends highly upon who you play group queue with and how much. So in essence, your KDR depends on who you play with, and is not really a measure of your individual skill.

Take KDR away from me completely and I'll still try to survive until the end of a match and pick off one more mech before going down. Why wouldn't you? And you can't stop me, either. Heck, sometimes I might even win against odds, I've done it before.

Bullcrap. I play solo in random, and to me K/D is the only stat that matters, because it's the only stat that depends on my play and skill. I can't kill all opponents by myself so I don't care about W/L

Edited by Kshahdoo, 10 January 2017 - 01:35 AM.

[DeeHawk]

Rizzwind, on 09 January 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'm not. I've even seen units that use KDR as a way to vet new member apps. This game revolves around 11 other players on your team to really care about stats at all. The tier system alone is a joke and counts on you getting 11 ok players to even move up rank. Or 11 really bad ones so you can stay where you are.

This is not quite true. If you perform well (I think top 2 or 3 of your team?), you will get an increase in Skill Rating even if you lose.
Likewise, you get to stay, or even go down in skill if you perform horrible on the winning team.
It's however easier to rise on the winning team.

The Tier system is a joke tho, but that's because it doesn't really tier anybody up.
And it doesn't take skill to reach T1, only enough games.

Related to topic:

Kills are bad, mkay? Stop caring about stats and focus on winning. Help your team mates, call targets. When you get "kill stealed", you smile, laugh and shout "AAAW".

And stop trying to read other players and linking thoughts to their behaviour. You have no chance of success. You will get angry convincing yourself of a thousand lies.