72 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I remember once that our light lance decided not to group with our assaults and heavy lance on tourmaline and they ended up all dying by being "left behind" because they just kinda stood in the back for 2 minutes and got demolished by a Panther or something.

To be honest I don't even care about assaults that get left behind anymore, the one thing that I find true in all cases where the assault gets left behind is that they are a bad pilot in the first place who isn't worth anchoring the team for in the first place even as a meatshield. I've seen Dire Wolves with loadouts more mixed than stock, ERLLs, LRMs, AC2s, an LBX something, etc all in one be last man alive because they sat back firing lrms at 1001m directly into a building then when an enemy attacks them they just cower, turn away to face a wall, try to walk into it, then die without firing any of their weaponry into the enemy's general direction.

Potato's gunna potato.

[xTrident]

antiwarus, on 09 January 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

I blame the person using slow mechs. I had someone screaming in a king crab having a fit and calling out all of our positions because he couldnt keep up along with us. Why should I gimp my 160kmph+ locust for a 40/50kmph king crab?

Not that lights don't have their place in the game, they certainly do and I really enjoy piloting them. But chances are that 100 ton King Crab will assist in the actual killing of the other mechs much more than your Locust. And let's be real, "skirmish" mode is primarily what is played in PGI's Mechwarrior world regardless of the game mode.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

xTrident, on 10 January 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Not that lights don't have their place in the game, they certainly do and I really enjoy piloting them. But chances are that 100 ton King Crab will assist in the actual killing of the other mechs much more than your Locust. And let's be real, "skirmish" mode is primarily what is played in PGI's Mechwarrior world regardless of the game mode.

I really never see King Crabs doing anything useful anymore. I've watched friend's matches where they'd be firing in a line with a King Crab for a good 30 seconds and then at the end of the game that King Crab only had like 25-75 damage even running the UAC5 build. If the people running decent builds in the King Crab can't even manage to put up anything reasonable then I have no hope for the even larger number that just throw on some terribad builds and the world's smallest XL and act like a tectonic plate.

Then again I've also seem some Locust pilots who just stand around, can't aim, and get oneshotted all day, just not as many, and there actually are some that are good.

[Old-dirty B]

xTrident, on 10 January 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Not that lights don't have their place in the game, they certainly do and I really enjoy piloting them. But chances are that 100 ton King Crab will assist in the actual killing of the other mechs much more than your Locust. And let's be real, "skirmish" mode is primarily what is played in PGI's Mechwarrior world regardless of the game mode.

Why is that, a king crab more contributing then a locust? Most locust pilots known very well what they are doing and ive seen many examples where the locust rolls up a complete lance or even better a light lance rolls up more then half of the opposing team - many occasions where the locust is the little come back kid and turns a loss into a win. Not seen many king crabs doing that...

Not saying kgc cant but i just see more lct doing just that.

Edited by B3R3ND, 10 January 2017 - 06:17 AM.

[xTrident]

Dakota1000, on 10 January 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

I remember once that our light lance decided not to group with our assaults and heavy lance on tourmaline and they ended up all dying by being "left behind" because they just kinda stood in the back for 2 minutes and got demolished by a Panther or something.

To be honest I don't even care about assaults that get left behind anymore, the one thing that I find true in all cases where the assault gets left behind is that they are a bad pilot in the first place who isn't worth anchoring the team for in the first place even as a meatshield. I've seen Dire Wolves with loadouts more mixed than stock, ERLLs, LRMs, AC2s, an LBX something, etc all in one be last man alive because they sat back firing lrms at 1001m directly into a building then when an enemy attacks them they just cower, turn away to face a wall, try to walk into it, then die without firing any of their weaponry into the enemy's general direction.

Potato's gunna potato.

What drives me crazy is when I see some assault pilots making it up with the team while others are left behind. HPG is terrible for this having some of our assaults grouped up with the rest of the team on one side of the center while others haven't even made it out of a gate. I know one of the spawns is really far out of the way, but an assault moving right from the get go would at least be near the gate by the time I'm looking around near the top with my heavy. And I don't recall ever being left behind in my Atlas on that map. Hell I'm usually the first one going below to see what might be there.

Frankly, two minutes into a game should be enough time for an assault to be near the mid point of most maps. Maybe not a Polar Highlands or Alpine depending on the route taken. But two minutes should be sufficient for an assault to be close enough behind the team to help support or be supported. Once two minutes is up though, that's on the pilot.

Of course it's different if the team is constantly moving.

Dakota1000, on 10 January 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

I really never see King Crabs doing anything useful anymore. I've watched friend's matches where they'd be firing in a line with a King Crab for a good 30 seconds and then at the end of the game that King Crab only had like 25-75 damage even running the UAC5 build. If the people running decent builds in the King Crab can't even manage to put up anything reasonable then I have no hope for the even larger number that just throw on some terribad builds and the world's smallest XL and act like a tectonic plate.

Then again I've also seem some Locust pilots who just stand around, can't aim, and get oneshotted all day, just not as many, and there actually are some that are good.

Well I'm obviously not talking about a useless King Crab build or poor pilot.

On the flip side I'd still rather have that King Crab as a target over a Locust as well soaking up that damage allowing me to do more.

[levowen]

Cold Darkness, on 10 January 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

chess is about out thinking your enemy, playing slow mechs is about out thinking your own team. thats a major difference. it is also not possible to do that if your team decides to just pick a random direction and go full speed ahead. your only option in that case is to seperate and go by yourself. this can be effective, but it usually is not.

also, dont get me wrong here. im not saying slow mechs are unplayable. i find 50kph to be more then enough speed. the problem is purely with the sanic mentality used by a huge part of this community. and they dont even run fast because it makes sense in that situation. they use it, because they picked it up somewhere and now practice it like a dogma (and do it wrong, at that).

Took a couple month break and came back. There seemed to be a lot more co-ordination in PUGS before I took off over comms and such. Since I started playing over christmas and into now the comms are largely silent. Is this the new state of the game (PUG wise anyways)?

I know a lot of competitive players that left around the same time I did due to burnout from WT schedule. Did a lot of former players end up taking a break?

At the beginning of matches now I'll see a bunch of lights rocket off towards the center of the map and think to myself that they're gone spotting only to see their names pop up in death before the rest of the team has even really joined.

Maybe I'm just getting put in with lower tiers or something.

[xTrident]

B3R3ND, on 10 January 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

Why is that, a king crab more contributing then a locust? Most locust pilots known very well what they are doing and ive seen many examples where the locust rolls up a complete lance or even better a light lance rolls up more then half of the opposing team - many occasions where the locust is the little come back kid and turns a loss into a win. Not seen many king crabs doing that...

As I said, all things being equal. Competent King Crab pilot to a competent Locust pilot. We're going to start nit picking by placing specific examples of what can happen? Because frankly I don't see a lot of Locust pilots doing what you mentioned, or lights for that matter. I see a lot of lights even groups of lights going off on their own possibly trying to do that only to be killed in a matter of seconds doing minimal damage. Most of the time when a light is left with a chance to win the game it's because the larger mechs put in the work of both taking and giving damage. That's where the King Crab comes into play for me.

Most matches I'm in where I and the rest of the team have died and we're watching a light or even medium try win the match for us that's exactly why they're able to - thanks to what the heavies and assaults did. I have taken out a Highlander with my Arctic Cheetah before who was still quite healthy. But I really question how good the pilot was because it was rather easy and I'm not a great light pilot.

But majority of the matches I'm in a much heavier team wins and it's usually not even close. Nor does the heavier team even have to coordinate that well. But as I said, lights have their place in the game and I enjoy piloting them. But don't tell me you're worse off having a King Crab over a Locust - again all things being equal. I'll take that assault all day long.

Edited by xTrident, 10 January 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[MacClearly]

I have been left behind in mediums. I would say most times the fault would be my own. Also been ditched in slow assaults. I might call out if I need help. If no one comes then I am sol and maybe I might have raged when I was new but now I just shrug it off.

The main thing that I have learned from it is that nascar is embedded and contagious. For myself I may do one lap on HPG, before I call out on comms that we are nascaring and need to take top or turn and face the enemy. So whether or not the team cooperated at that point I am turning to find the enemy. Personally I would rather die alone horribly not running in circles than derp it out and maybe win nascaring which only serves to reinforce really poor strategies. However sometimes I am proven wrong and the nascar wins.

Also over comms I really focus on only saying something to those who berate the team or others. Especially when someone says or writes s%&! team, my favourite response is 'of coarse it is, you're on it'. Sometimes to blow off steam or frustration I use self deprecation. Although I have definitely pissed off some players who are running really stupid things...take and lrm Atlas for example. I have however tried to tone it down.

[HGAK47]

Snazzy Dragon, on 09 January 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

I just came out of a match where a bunch of medium pilots blamed me and some lance mates for being too fast and leaving them behind...

And I'm asking myself, "how did you get left behind by a std engine black knight, a dire wolf, and a king crab???"

I dunno, did we do something wrong by not stopping at the rear?

I was in a match with you yesterday, you were in your King Crab I think and I was in my ECMcada. I stuck with you for the majority of the match trying to provide ecm cover but the rest of our team split up massively and died off one by one.
Often times just sticking close and pushing as a team makes a huge difference in the outcome of a battle. When non solo backstabbers all start wondering off by themselves I feel like giving up lol.

[Vanguard319]

I was in Canyon Valley last night, and at first it seemed to start well, we had a guy on our team call for scouts up top, and we had a pair of Cataphracts (myself included) moving to a flanking position. Problem is, someone decided to engage before the flankers were in position, and half the team was dead by the time we got to engage. I was only one of two people on my team to score a kill that match, and the only one to kill two mechs (An Ebon Jaguar and a nearly pristine Dire Wolf.)

In a conquest match on Crimson, my lance scouted the saddle, and finding a lone Night Gyr on the other side, proceeded to pound it into scrap. I asked if we were capping, which half the lance did capture the enemy base, while the other half held off a Crab and Stalker that tried to defend.

Speed isn't the all deciding factor in victory. Good communication, a good strategy, and remaining flexible enough to change tactics when needed matter much more.

[mogs01gt]

lol this game has been our for years and the game play still hasnt changed. Too many people only care about their own scores instead of the win. Leaving mechs behind should have stopped years ago...

[Old-dirty B]

xTrident, on 10 January 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

As I said, all things being equal. Competent King Crab pilot to a competent Locust pilot. We're going to start nit picking by placing specific examples of what can happen? Because frankly I don't see a lot of Locust pilots doing what you mentioned, or lights for that matter. I see a lot of lights even groups of lights going off on their own possibly trying to do that only to be killed in a matter of seconds doing minimal damage. Most of the time when a light is left with a chance to win the game it's because the larger mechs put in the work of both taking and giving damage. That's where the King Crab comes into play for me.

Most matches I'm in where I and the rest of the team have died and we're watching a light or even medium try win the match for us that's exactly why they're able to - thanks to what the heavies and assaults did. I have taken out a Highlander with my Arctic Cheetah before who was still quite healthy. But I really question how good the pilot was because it was rather easy and I'm not a great light pilot.

But majority of the matches I'm in a much heavier team wins and it's usually not even close. Nor does the heavier team even have to coordinate that well. But as I said, lights have their place in the game and I enjoy piloting them. But don't tell me you're worse off having a King Crab over a Locust - again all things being equal. I'll take that assault all day long.

Maybe the point i was trying to make didnt came across, im not saying a locust is better then king crab (in helping the team win), nor am i agreeing a king crab is better then a locust or any light (which seems to be your point). I wanted to put that into perspective by sharing what ive seen happenig.

Perhaps you could have guessed but im a light pilot, i might not be the best certainly not perfect but i guess i can say im decent. As of a few weeks i have been playing a typical locust, the lct-1e, to master it. Im certain i have enough to learn, especially improve my reflexes (im not the youngest anymore) but my stats are on another level ever since i started with the locust (comparing it with my other mechs).
Anyway, i try to play smart and not too much on my reflex and aiming skills but more so with mind games and outplaying others. Dont take this as braggjng but to illustrate my point, i often get 3-4kills, 1-2 solo, 3-4kmd's, 4-5 assists and around 600-800 damage, some times ending the match barely scratched (>75%) and thats just with about 30 rounds played. Also worth to mention, this often happens way behind enemy lines operating solo, i mostly play like this on my own but rarely go down doing so. I often pull multiple enemies away from the fight and almost always survive these operations. More then enough to carry my own weight (which is just 20ton) if i may say so myself. Im sure there are many players out there that have more experience and skills that easily out perform me.
In other words, lights are not just squirrels that mostly cap and do a bit of scouting and if the survive that perhaps clean up the mess or finish the job heavies and assaults started. A very skilled light pilot is able to drop single-handedly several mechs of any weight class and type (depending on the situation perhaps even a couple at the same time).

Dont under estinate the power of a light

Edited by B3R3ND, 10 January 2017 - 11:53 AM.

[Bombast]

Just wanted to poke in and confirm what other people have said - It does happen. Tourmaline is the worst offender - If you're in a medium (Excluding the 'super-lights') and spawn in the light lance in the wrong side, it's an almost guaranteed death or mauling, as it's almost impossible to catch up to the assaults without both crossing a wide open shooting gallery, and avoiding the enemy lights who will almost certainly be descending on you like a vulture.

Edited by Bombast, 10 January 2017 - 11:33 AM.

[Kdogg788]

It doesn't matter what mech you or your team are driving. If anyone is left behind then it is poor situational awareness by the entire team. If one lance or two decide to NASCAR and say nothing it is just as much their fault that a third of their team was isolated and killed. You have a mini map and several different means of communication at your disposal including in game and out game coms, tactical wheel, and old fashioned typing. Players should notice when their team is becoming spread out on the map and do something to rectify the situation. Half the time it isn't the players in the back who die first, it's the guys up front who decided to run 4 grids ahead.

-k

[MeiSooHaityu]

Unfortunately that is the nature of solo queue. You have to keep one eye on the battlefield outside the cockpit, and the other eye on your mini-map.

If the team starts moving, you need to be aware of it and move with them the second you notice your battle line shift. The slower your mech, the more on top of the situation you need to be.

You can try to ask the team to stop moving or request help, but in a match with 11 other random people, you can't rely on that level of assistance. If you get it, great, but you just really can't expect it or get angry if it doesn't happen.

Stinks, but that is sort of the nature of solo queue. If you desire more coordination and assistance, then faction warfare is probably the way to go.

[xTrident]

B3R3ND, on 10 January 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

Snipped

Dont under estinate the power of a light

Well I'm not surprised I got this response as I was asking for it. I don't deny a well skilled light pilot can be more of an asset to the team than even a decent assault pilot. My point, going from my experience is those kind of light pilots are NOT the norm. Time and time again when I drop I'll see a light or two going off on their own and my hope is that they'll either scout well for us or if they engage they'll do what you mentioned. What happens though? They engage, or maybe don't and wind up dying within the first two minutes - max, of the match. So we're down two people on our team that essentially did nothing. And because I know how much a light can help the team I don't like seeing us down one or two mechs right off the bat before the rest of the team is available to help at all.

You're still talking specifics where I'm talking more broadly that an assault is more valuable to the team than a light.

I don't disagree with your example and it sounds like you're a great asset to the team. But I believe firepower and the ability to take damage is more important in PGI's version of MWO that always turns into a skirmish. And that's my key point, it's almost always skirmish in some way. I believe it's much more difficult for a light to be as helpful in these skirmish fights.

[Old-dirty B]

I understand your point and in that i mostly agree, one thing though - every class has its way of play and to be usefull for the team. Aa a light pilot i prefer an environment where the enemy team is not all on my tail but is being pinned down by a few assaults - then i can do my business
I would like to see an allround team where firepower and armor are matched with speed and agility, the combination is golden! Each class and mech has its role and purpose...

One last remark, i have seen bad light pilots rush off to get killed within the first minute just as much as the hiding assault in the back lurming - both hurt the team.

[Besh]

Its simply amazing to still see people posting Topics like this one - or within these - who do not seem to acknowledge the "TeamSport" nature of MW:O .

Am just glad some people do .

[Chuck Jager]

As a player, I try to look at the map and see if we are going to have a potential to drop the assaults.
I will type " assaults are getting left, meet at XX"
I also only do this if I see the assaults actively trying to get into position
I have also had to type "assaults are over 90% retreat behind them" because the assaults have not closed any distance for 2+ minutes while the team is getting decimated.

note: this helps, but is in no way going to work every time.

[LordNothing]

Dakota1000, on 10 January 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

I really never see King Crabs doing anything useful anymore. I've watched friend's matches where they'd be firing in a line with a King Crab for a good 30 seconds and then at the end of the game that King Crab only had like 25-75 damage even running the UAC5 build. If the people running decent builds in the King Crab can't even manage to put up anything reasonable then I have no hope for the even larger number that just throw on some terribad builds and the world's smallest XL and act like a tectonic plate.

Then again I've also seem some Locust pilots who just stand around, can't aim, and get oneshotted all day, just not as many, and there actually are some that are good.

the number of lerm'n'laser king crabs out there is absurd. though i can understand using those hardpoints as opposed to the low af ballistic hardpoints. 4lpls and some srms on a 0000 is a great build, but there are better platforms for it than the king crab. i figure people who run builds like this dont have a lot of mechs in their hanger. there was that one build i did with a pair of ac10s and 3 lpls that was pretty good, and more suited to the king crab's hardpoints, but i sold my 0000 and only kept the 000 instead (i cant resist ac2 spam).