110 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Jman5, on 10 January 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

So the question is: do I play with a super-serious tier 1 faction play group turning 9/10 matches into face-rolls? Or do I drop with solos and small groups and accept those rare match ups against Tier 1 teams as lost causes?

I do both - Drop with units, big or small numbers and PUGs. I mean if I can PUG against a 4-6 man & still produce stuff like this:



Or full PUG v PUG it and do this:



Or drop in a 4-man and this happens against another 4man (PROMO is just an animal). Half the mechs this game were easily, LRM boating, and from the DZ... I mean, ffs.




Either way it doesn't really matter, given how many IS pilots continue to bring... LRMs in FP PUG matches.

I'm seeing soooo many LRM boats, it's just stupid. I've never seen it this bad in FP before.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 January 2017 - 04:08 AM.

[Appogee]

DavidStarr, on 10 January 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

Non-invasion game modes are ruining FP, if you ask me.

It was ruined before. So - at worst - the non-invasion maps aren't fixing the prior ruination.

Personally I think adding the non-invasion maps is great and I enjoy those battles far more than the old Invasion-specific ones.

Yes, it's hard for the inexperienced to win at FP, or soloists against groups. It always was.

Those are the problems that needs to be fixed*. It's not a map issue.





*Solutions: group v group matchmaking, and better gating/training of inexperienced solists.

Edited by Appogee, 11 January 2017 - 02:25 AM.

[KinLuu]

It also would not hurt, if you could choose between Quickplay Maps and Gamemodes and Invasion Maps and Gamemodes.

I really prefer the Quickplay Maps and Modes - but if I log in late in a cycle, there will only be Invasion available to queue up for.

[Ductus Hase]

DavidStarr, on 10 January 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

Non-invasion game modes are ruining FP, if you ask me. At least we know the tactics for invasion and what to expect. No one among IS PUGs and semi-PUGs seems to know what the hell to do in assault/domination/conquest. People (including me) play it as if it's regular quickplay with four respawns, and end up losing hard more often than not. Not to mention these modes is where clans really can use their range advantage (the walls on HPG Manifold shouldn't be accessible to mechs, for crying out loud!).

...and now it´s time to learn the tactics for those other gamemodes - you did analyse the problem quite well, I just do not get how more diversity and the need to develop new tactics is ruining the game in your opinion.

By including some QP maps into FP, PGI has given us what quite a few asked for: Battlegrounds that do not come down to a fight for 2-3 gates most of the time. It´s harder for IS PUGs to adapt to these modes than for Clan PUGs, most of their mechs being well suited for a fast mobile warfare from the go.

[Old-dirty B]

I'm missing the point of this thread apparently. Is this to point out this group is doing things not allowed in FW and thus ruining it, or to point out there's a lack of real competition?

Edited by B3R3ND, 11 January 2017 - 04:42 AM.

[TWIAFU]

B3R3ND, on 11 January 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

I'm missing the point of this thread apparently. Is this to point out this group is doing things not allowed in FW and thus ruining it, or to point out there's a lack of real competition?

No, OP is complaining because he runs into a 12man organized group in the group/unit focused queue a couple times.

[Old-dirty B]

Thanks, understood another thread with a different approach about the same complain. Apparently the other 10 threads about group stomping and splitting up the group queue where not having its desired effect.

Back to business

[nehebkau]

Just a little reality check:

EVIL can only ruin FW if you let them get to you. So you got stomped, move on to another match or switch game modes for a while. Maybe next time you meet them you can change the rules of engagement, meaning, you play for a different objective than they believe you are playing for. Maybe that's to stay hidden as long as possible, or to see how quickly you can blast through your 48 mechs or to see how long you can keep EVIL mired in that particular game.

It's hard for the other team to win when they have no idea what objective you are playing for.

[M A N T I S]

Just a suggestion: Limit group size. Let's say a lance at a time. Have some internal tier balancing mechanisms that will take an average lance of tier 1 guys and try to group them to an average lance of tier 3 or lower. Rudimentary skill balancing which we have a population to support. Make FP count towards tier calculation as well.

Pros:
- Limits the stomps against PUG groups
- Encourages more casual players to play FP, since the drops should be somewhat more balanced
- Encourages more intermingling between units and higher tier players into the common player base
- Support lower tier players by grouping them with a higher tier lance, hopefully they have a fun experience and keep dropping

Cons:
- It's fun to play with 12 online buddies, the TeamSpeak talk is highly entertaining, that would be gone
- It would remove the rare 12 vs 12 full unit matchups at a high(er) level, which can be great fun
- May discourage some top flight players from playing, although I believe we'd be gaining more population overall, but the mode would be diluted, and team play would be eroded

I really like getting on TeamSpeak and listening to the chatter as we group up and play - it's great fun. But I have to admit, I often remember what it feels like to see a full 12 of a good unit lined up against you, as a PUG group... it is demoralizing.

In the end, I want this game to keep going, I'd like to see a huge population play FP and to do this we need to limit the stomps. Once casual players perceive that they have a chance, they will drop FP much more regularly. It seems the only way to do that is to prevent the large 12-mans from forming, and trying to group lances across the skill spectrum. Is there any other way? I don't see any...

[Natural Predator]

Redjack d3, on 10 January 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

policies have changed, no more back capping us. AND WE DONT MESS WITH POLICY

Don't be mad because out EVILed EVIL. Its not like that happens often.

[LordNothing]

everybody is ruining fp (hell everyone is ruining qp now too). people like to blame pugs or units, me personally i like to blame pgi. mostly for being way too ambitious with the whole fp design from the beginning, and overestimating their niche market. this led to the bucket crisis as the player base was stretched thin. look at how long the queue bars are, its like they expected 5 or 6 teams to be lined up to play all the time. also assuming that everyone is going to opt for the hyper organized level of play enjoyed by units like evil and others.

so it hits and immediately there are problems. the first thing i noticed about fp was how ridiculously complicated the original lobby system was. it was so bad it needed a manual to understand it properly. it also didnt factor in the behavior of players either, and you ended up with pug funnel that persisted until phase 3, and was rapidly reinstated when the already spread thin player base complained about the wait times.

second thing was the maps. i really dont need to go too far into this, everyone gets it. choke points and poorly thought out objectives. ranking rewards were exceptionally tempting, but the grind was terrible and the farming was so bad the majority of players fled the whole thing. i (and a whole lot of other pugs) saw it as pgi playing favoritism for the more skilled units in the game, which make up one extreme of the curve. i joined a unit, bought a mic and the farming persisted. units needed to drop a lot to capture planets, and you would hardly ever see more than one group queued in a lobby at any given time. this leads to more pug funnel situations. but the thing is it is yet another indication of how spread thin everyone was.

subsequent phases showed that pgi was skating around the problems, only focusing on low hanging fruit. i dont even remember what phase 2 brought that was different, i dont even think it did. phase 3 was actually moving in the right direction, but because split queue didnt work, a lot of the related features were just vestigial at best. other features like the long tom just made the whole situation desperate. scouting was a nice addition but it just turned into light skirmish.

and here we are, we have finally resolved the fundamental issues with phase one, and its still dead. vestigial phase 3 features remain. organizational players are still orders of magnitude more capable than the average fp player. i cant help but think they are wasting their talent in fp when they should be organizing 3rd party custom games with fellow units, and why there isnt some kind of unit rivalry system in there is beyond me. its somewhat playable now, but its horrible reputation remains, and there are still fundamental problems that need to be corrected.

none of this is the fault of any unit, they just want planets and a reputation. i cant fault the pugs for wanting to have fun and win free mech bays. but i can blame pgi for horible design.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 January 2017 - 07:33 AM.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

AnimeFreak40K, on 10 January 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

All I am hearing is EVIL is the new MercStar...

That's giving Evil too much credit. Phase 2 and phase 3 Mercstar could change the map by which faction they took a contract with. Evil doesn't have that ability.

[Xiphias]

The Nerf Bat, on 11 January 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

That's giving Evil too much credit. Phase 2 and phase 3 Mercstar could change the map by which faction they took a contract with. Evil doesn't have that ability.

Evil is basically the same as KCOM (was at least) in that they are a small unit that wins almost all of their matches. The reason MS drew so much attention was due to it's size. While MS could field a strong team of elites that could go head to head with groups like KCOM, its strength came from being able to consistently field multiple above average teams that could stomp pugs and still beat 80% of the units. You'd be much more likely to hit one of the four MS groups than to hit the one EVIL group.

EVIL only draws as much attention now because there is no equivalent to -MS- in FP. While (MS) plays, it's not at nearly the size or quality that it once was.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 11 January 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Don't be mad because out EVILed EVIL. Its not like that happens often.

Not one of us were mad. Now when your 95% capped before we start the feast, back capping wont be an issue. Be proud your mercy win changed our policy.

[Michal R]

Ehhh wait what?
They ruin FP?
Nope, never ever.

Only IS stupid tier potato, LRM PUGs ruin FP.
Players brings potato decks and loose.

But wait, why i'm writing this...?

PUGS still will be stupid...

[Palfatreos]

justcallme A S H, on 11 January 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

How dare promo not be in a 12 man evil pug stump we have to put him on court martial
Thanks for the evidence ash you will be called as witness he might get lynched for his defiance!

[ccrider]

EVIL doesn't ruin FP; palf does when he gets caught by my Atlas and his teammates core out my back just before I can finish him off.

[f00lish1]

Can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or not, but...

I don't think [EVIL] is as big of a problem as the groups, I'm talking about pre-mades not PUGs, who admit defeat when loading into the match just because they see the tag. Same goes for some of the other better Units that drop primarily as a large group.

I've been in quite a few groups that have surrendered the match before it even began because of their opponent's tags. This usually ends up with me giving it the ol' college try by myself while I listen to people on ts complain after practically suiciding their mechs. At the same time, I've been in PUG teams (with good pilots ) that have had competitive matches and on the rare occasion beaten these groups.

This is the kind of team that everyone who wants the PUGs to leave FP are looking to fight, right?

So rather than push the mythos that these guys and their like are "ruining faction play," enter the match thinking, "...and I'm all out of bubblegum."

Edited by f00lish1, 11 January 2017 - 09:20 AM.

[Jumping Gigolo]

CW/FP is ruined because we dont have enough Maulurms queueing up.

[Deathlike]

Appogee, on 10 January 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

The mode was designed for competitive group play. So we can't complain about the best competitive group winning it.

We could however match groups against groups, and perhaps also find a way to stop unskilled and unqualified soloists being matched against skilled players and large groups.

I'd be fine if it takes longer to get a match, if it guarantees a match where I and experienced players won't have to try to carry a lance of completely unqualified noobs.

You realistically do not have enough people for both (solo and groups) to run simultaneously as currently constituted w/o extraordinarily long waits at certain hours of the day.

That's why the "buckets" were merged in the first place.

Edited by Deathlike, 11 January 2017 - 12:07 PM.