116 replies to this topic

[Roadbuster]

Thanks for that info Tina.

I fully agree with Navid A1.
The current PSR system is too much like an xp-bar.
Just play many matches and your rank will rise sooner or later.
Also, imho, W/L should have no effect on PSR at all, because getting carried has nothing to do with skill.

I just take myself as example. I'm tier 1, but I'd consider myself tier 2 because I make stupid mistakes sometimes, try to do too much or lose patience, resulting in a fast death.
But then I get to spectate players (some even in trial mechs) who can't keep a laser on a stationary target, never lock a target, or don't notice that they get shot by a mech right next to them. Players who are clearly lower than tier 3 or 4.

PSR shouldn't be that forgiving.
If someone can't pull off matches with average scores consistently, that player is in the wrong tier.

And while it's true that lower tier players might learn something if they get to watch more experienced/skilled players, I think it would be more beneficial if players could play more balanced games, where their individual actions make a difference and they get a feeling of accomplishment.
There's more than enough youtube and twitch videos out there where players can learn new things.

[El Bandito]

Tina Benoit, on 13 January 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

We do currently have it set that Tier 1 players and Tier 4 players can get matched together, however we've just recently reduced it (due to reports), so that it now takes 4.5 minutes before that will happen.

I was right! Eat your socks, all who said T1 could match against T5s.

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

You need to get up to date. The rule is that T4 players can be matched with T1 if the MM valve has been loosened, but not T5. If the MM has not been loosened, then T1s can only be matched with T1-3. Don't quote me, go ask Russ himself.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2017 - 03:34 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Shjt tier matchmaker and repetitive gameplay are why I haven't touched this game in months.

Be nice to have a change in gameplay for a change... some meat and taters as it were... This constantly bringing me salads ain't cutting it.

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

I was right! Eat your socks, all who said T1 could match against T5s.

Don't you know ForumWarriors can never admit they were wrong, they'll just deflect instead. I mean... look at BLOODWOLF's posting history.

[El Bandito]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 14 January 2017 - 03:37 AM, said:

Don't you know ForumWarriors can never admit they were wrong, they'll just deflect instead. I mean... look at BLOODWOLF's posting history.

I consider BLOOD WOLF to be the MWO forums' equivalent of Sarah Palin. I learned to ignore him.

[JC Daxion]

Tina Benoit, on 13 January 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

Unfortunately Tiers are considered as personal account information so we do not force nor reveal player's tiers publicly unless they choose to, like for example how you can right here on the forums.

That is fine, But how about a average tier number so people have an idea of what level people they are playing with. If a teams average tier is 3.4, you'd make assumptions, and perhaps help, or give more info about a strat verse say a t 2.2

Should be a simple enough addition, just add some numbers and add a display spot on the team screen

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Hi Tina

split the Tierlevels in more wider Area ..not only 5 Tiers , give the comm 10 or 15 Tierlevels ..in the Moment its only frustrating to seeing, most new players smoking in seconds against 2/1 Level tiers ...the most new players have no experience with Moving ,Weapons ranges, minimum ranges ,Lock and LOS system..this Players learning nothing by a Fast dead , and going frustrating Disconnect, before you can give help or tips

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 14 January 2017 - 06:17 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Honestly, the fact that T4 regularly ends up in T1 play means the population has thinned to extraordinarily low levels.

Also, a tiering system that acts as an exp bar is virtually useless, which is why more poor players are ground into farming practice for their betters and have no means of escape. This was called months and months ago when the current system was started, and things like the OP just point out how glaring the results of such a system become.

The system is regularly pulling newbie-rank (T4) players for games against most-experienced (I can't say skilled, because PSR doesn't reflect it), not to mention T3 and T2 aplenty. In effect, there are no tiers. They are meaningless. Failing to actually make PSR seriously push players down when they hit a skill wall and fail to contribute has wasted the inflow of new players we got in Steam and continues to degrade the player experience.

Of course, if we did fix it now, it'd be months of operation until some recovery happened. But if it isn't done, the game will continue to bleed out it's lifeblood of new players to buy new robots.

[MacClearly]

Roadbuster, on 14 January 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

Thanks for that info Tina.

I fully agree with Navid A1.
The current PSR system is too much like an xp-bar.
Just play many matches and your rank will rise sooner or later.
Also, imho, W/L should have no effect on PSR at all, because getting carried has nothing to do with skill.

I just take myself as example. I'm tier 1, but I'd consider myself tier 2 because I make stupid mistakes sometimes, try to do too much or lose patience, resulting in a fast death.
But then I get to spectate players (some even in trial mechs) who can't keep a laser on a stationary target, never lock a target, or don't notice that they get shot by a mech right next to them. Players who are clearly lower than tier 3 or 4.

PSR shouldn't be that forgiving.
If someone can't pull off matches with average scores consistently, that player is in the wrong tier.

And while it's true that lower tier players might learn something if they get to watch more experienced/skilled players, I think it would be more beneficial if players could play more balanced games, where their individual actions make a difference and they get a feeling of accomplishment.
There's more than enough youtube and twitch videos out there where players can learn new things.

While tier system may not be perfect, I invite you to start an alt account and intentionally do really poorly in your first five games especially. After that you will still be in the top half of tier 5 (actually more like top 3/4). Confine yourself to either the Myst Lynx or if you are a strong light pilot go with the Stalker. Keep yourself to around 250 damage or less (at times I did this in the Stalker by only using the med lasers and brawling front line...) Snuggles is doing a video on it and he had to go with a six machine gun one flamer Shadow Cat build.

Now that you are there, stop and take a look around. One thing you will notice is a lot more communication, which can be good, but more times than anything it is not. Take in the rage while you are visiting. Enjoy the fits of anger even over things that are part of the game. Such as being on the wall in HPG sniping. Some in tier 5 believe this to be cheating and reportable. Go on a tear and kill five guys in your trial Myst Lynx, especially by coring out oblivious lurmers from behind. Then listen to people calling you names for such sneaky and vile behaviour and you must be cheating to put up a thousand damage in a Myst Lynx...(check my stats and you will see I am so far from being an allstar I may just be cresting the ridge into being competent).

[MacClearly]

Thaks for the clarification.

I have noticed a bit longer wait times for matches. I have also noticed however that I have been in a lot more games over the past two days that were 12-8 or 12-10 and even a bunch of 12-11. Not sure if I am just lucky or if others are seeing it too.

[Dee Eight]

Carl Vickers, on 13 January 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

There was a post in the 2nd half of last year (sorry I cant narrow it down more than that) that Dee Eight was heavily involved in that had screen shot proof of tier 5 going into QP matches with tier 1s.

My suspicion is it happened at low population times.

This screenshot you mean ? It was a T1 to T4 match confirmed as I was a 4 at the time and we had at least two 1s. Match was August 16th, 2016. I reached T3 in september. The discussion thread was about the T1 thru T4 mix which WAS actually happening even though everyone at the time believed the tier mix was only up or down 2 levels (thus never 1s and 4s or 2s and 5s). However in recent days I've had matches with brand new players (who cannot be anything but 5s) along with 1s. How brand new ? Well when the guy has already started his forum profile and it says T5...and he proclaims that it was only his third match... and we end up with one Pat's KCom generals in the match also... you kinda figure the matchmaker is well and truly broken. I shall try and remember to take some screen shots next time it happens.

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 03:50 AM, said:

I consider BLOOD WOLF to be the MWO forums' equivalent of Sarah Palin. I learned to ignore him.

I hope I merit at least Dan Quayle status.

Edited by Dee Eight, 14 January 2017 - 01:31 PM.

[Mystere]

Hit the Deck, on 13 January 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

This means that T3 is where it's at (to get a match as quickly as possible).

Use a joystick and you might just get there sooner than you think.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 03:50 AM, said:

I consider BLOOD WOLF to be the MWO forums' equivalent of Sarah Palin. I learned to ignore him.

Did you just insult Sarah?

[RussianWolf]

Tina Benoit, on 13 January 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

Hm, if T1 and T5 are encountering then they should make sure to report the match to us with a screenshot so we can investigate it.

On here or support would work. I'll dig in the forums too as well in-case I find any.

With no in game indication of other people's tiers, what are we reporting? What would a screenshot show?

Honestly, this is your job (PGIs in general) not ours.

But what do I care? I stopped playing months ago.

[fat4eyes]

MacClearly, on 14 January 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

While tier system may not be perfect, I invite you to start an alt account and intentionally do really poorly in your first five games especially. After that you will still be in the top half of tier 5 (actually more like top 3/4). Confine yourself to either the Myst Lynx or if you are a strong light pilot go with the Stalker. Keep yourself to around 250 damage or less (at times I did this in the Stalker by only using the med lasers and brawling front line...) Snuggles is doing a video on it and he had to go with a six machine gun one flamer Shadow Cat build.

This is very true. In tier 1 games lights fall in about 5-10 seconds if they're cornered by 4 enemy mechs. In tier 5 games, that can go on for 20 seconds or more. People take longer to react, are A LOT more timid and battles are more about attrition than maneuver. LRMs also fill the skies of tier 5 games, while it's very uncommon to see more than 2 lrmboats in tier 1 games.

You can vastly improve tier 5 games by talking though. If you get the team all moving towards a common purpose in tier 5, you get a huge advantage on your enemy, so much more than at tier 1.

Using exclusively NARCs is also a good way of staying at tier 5 while still having something interesting to do. It also allows you to practice your NARC and SRM aiming skills.

Edited by fat4eyes, 14 January 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[MacClearly]

fat4eyes, on 14 January 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

This is very true. In tier 1 games lights fall in about 5-10 seconds if they're cornered by 4 enemy mechs. In tier 5 games, that can go on for 20 seconds or more. People take longer to react, are A LOT more timid and battles are more about attrition than maneuver. LRMs also fill the skies of tier 5 games, while it's very uncommon to see more than 2 lrmboats in tier 1 games.

You can vastly improve tier 5 games by talking though. If you get the team all moving towards a common purpose in tier 5, you get a huge advantage on your enemy, so much more than at tier 1.

Using exclusively NARCs is also a good way of staying at tier 5 while still having something interesting to do. It also allows you to practice your NARC and SRM aiming skills.

I guess. Are you sure you don't mean tier 4? My experience with 5 is that it is full of angry folks and people who really don't get the very basics of how to play. While 4 just being the casual or inexperienced/new players. I think it actually takes a bit of work to be in tier 5 and I have seen some extremes in anti-social behaviour. Enough to actually abandon the sandbagged account that was there because of how unpleasant it was.

[Daemon04]

wow. just wow.

for how long was this happening?

Edited by Daemon04, 14 January 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

mrpetzold, on 14 January 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

Yesterday I found a player in tier 1 with a KDR of 0,55. He is considered to be as good as Proton in this tier-system... 0,55 KDR should at best be in tier 4, and should probably be in tier 5.

I had to double check my stats. Not me!!! , KDR 0.98 but with a win/loss 300 in the green out of 7200+ games. Just passed 50% mark in Tier 1. omg..

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 14 January 2017 - 04:11 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

T1 as "good" was eroding from day 1.

It's been months of potato growing there now, as even mediocre players get forced up in tier. The only way to avoid it is not to play.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 03:50 AM, said:

I consider BLOOD WOLF to be the MWO forums' equivalent of Sarah Palin. I learned to ignore him.

That's not fair.

It's not like he is trying to run the US whispering ideas to balance the game... or was that additional heat nerf his suggestion?

/shrudders

[Hunter Watzas]

I have a question with this statement that tier 1 can't be matched with tier 5...

If a Tier 1 player can be matched with a tier 4... the tier 4 player can be matched with tier 5. Could it be chaining? Without knowing the logic of how the MM assigns players to games (for SOLO) I find it hard to believe that there are no flaws in the logical programming simply because it would be very difficult to do while keeping it fast.

If a match gets assigned a value based on the average player in it, its feasible that there could be tier 5 players in a "tier 4" match. I would love to see a flow chart of how the match maker works.

Edited by Hunter Watzas, 14 January 2017 - 09:26 PM.