363 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

gloowa, on 16 January 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:

Why would you want single-fire dumb missiles? I can only see them used in a troll oxide build - mount 6 RL 20's and proceed to fire once. And screw your team over over in the process.

Yeah, but that is an absolute idiot build - that's like single flamer, or 6 tag builds.

Rocket Launchers will be good as a quick bit of extra damage - I mean an RL10 is 1 slot and half a ton - on larger mechs with random M slots and a little spare weight you don't know what to do with, get a one-off pop.

And you can make a nice little assassin with 4RL20 and an MPL on a Locust.

Duvanor, on 16 January 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hum, everytime I see that small list I am asking myself who actually would want to use that stuff. Blazer deals 12 damage while generating 16 heat and weighting 9 tons.

Rocket Launchers eat up crits and have one single salvo, make that 2 in MWO maybe. At least their weight is not that bad.

And Silver Bullet Gauss? That thing got scrapped in 3051 (the same year someone at the NAIS thought it was ready to roll) and did not resurface before the end of the 3070s. Besides that - who wants a 15 ton weapon with charging mechanism that fires 15 1 damage pellets at the range of regular Gauss Rifles.

The Rifles are a bit lighter than ACs, but only the Heavy Rifle has advantages over the AC/10 worth mentioning of and just 60% of the AC/10s ammo per ton.

That's the thing.
Not everything has to be super-meta better-than-what-we-have.

OPTIONS ARE GOOD

Blazer is 1.5 Large Lasers - it'd be a good option for I think the 21 or so single-energy-point mech variants floating about, as an alternative to LPL and PPCs, and it's really easy to implement.

RL's are meant to be a backup / secondary rather than a primary mostly really, and it's an option.

Lots of people like LBX, Gauss is losing the charge time at some point this year, and again - it's an OPTION that's easy to implement.

Rifles are both easy to implement AND, something between Machine Guns and AC2's.
They may be short range, and lower damage - but they're light and small enough to use on Lights, and more options for Mediums.

These would be fun alternatives, that are easily balanced (by either being self regulating (one shot), or as you say 'worse' than existing things.

[MovinTarget]

Vellron2005, on 17 January 2017 - 01:44 AM, said:

What I like and don't like about the January / February and beyond roadmap:

Likes:

1) The fact that there's a roadmap

2) Plans for the skill tree

3) New music (Twas about time!)

4) FW updates

What I dislike about the roadmap:

1) Clan XL nerf - its not fair, cose' we can't use standard engines, so we have no choice weather to get nerfed or not. Clan engines are supposed to be better, and it seems to me that IS has it better, cose' they can use standard engines.

2) New weapons - I know many have asked for this, but it took years to get any semblance of balance in this game. New weapons will mess with that in a huge way, and the meta will automatically shift to those weapons. I understand "shaking things up", but PGI has a knack for not doing it properly, so we can expect months of extreme OP-ness from one side or the other..

3) Incursion mode - Seriously?! The game needs NEW modes, not old modes revamped to look differently! Revamping an old mode, and using it along with the old mode (that needed a revamp for a reason) is a cheap and easy way of increasing the numerical versatility, while not actually making the game better - its a cheat! Also, the original assault revamp video featured two bases with generators, turrets, walls and radar towers.. remember what was happening back when assault had turrets? NOBODY went near those things, nobody capped bases, and it was just another skirmish.. So why would it be any different if you add walls? This mode can only work if it is asymmetric, if there is only one base.. only then does the "objective" matter, otherwise, its just another skirmish - with walls.

4) Skill tree removing zoom modules - this means that we will no longer be able to move our zoom from mech to mech, and this ability will potentially cost more.. On the other hand, if it does not cost cbills any more, than more of my mechs will have it.. but still.. I think some things should remain transferable among mechs, for experimentation sake..

We are getting a new game mode. Revamped assault, the only thing to change is that we are keeping *old* assault as well. I don't mind this since its one of the less annoying modes (at least to me).

[STEEL JUSTICE]

Great news i was waiting for a long time for new weapons and equipment technology.
PLZ add this IS mech from 3060 era

Hauptmann (this is my favorite mech)
http://www.sarna.net...M_Hauptmann.png

Thanatos
http://www.sarna.net...-M_Thanatos.png

[SuperFunkTron]

TheLuc, on 16 January 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

SuperFunkTron, while you might be correct in some points of that view of yours about the game, at the snail pace it goes most likely MW10 will be out , most of us will be dead and our kids will play some Gundam card game online

Now you're just exaggerating. In the very worst case scenario, MWO will be a lesson in what does and does not work in a large multiplayer Battletech game. If you consider how complicated the original idea was, its really not a surprise that they weren't able to pull it off in this time frame. What they outlined would've been much easier in a single player/ co-op setting.

The only way to practically make the game more like the original plan would be start building it one small feature at a time and set the game as a knowingly open interpretation of the IS map. If they decided that the story line of the game would be non canonical and allow the Innersphere invasion to be a sort of "yet to be decided" or more of a "lets explore attack progress" on a seasonally based time frame, then they could more easily work on the system of "creating our own history". Sure they could use lore to help define many important political, resource heavy, and manufacturing planets, but they wouldn't be obligated to follow an already well detailed story so closely. Even if they take the steps to open up the game to alleviate some of the Invasion story's chains, what they described is a HUGE undertaking.

I still believe it'd be a matter of just a few years to build up toward that the original vision and that being able to play the game during its stepwise progression is way better than waiting 2 or 3 years to play any game at all.

[CK16]

Sigh, I love how many people always come in to these threads and find anything to ***** about. Like honestly "PGI never releases new content" , *Insert new content from PGI* "Not that kind of new content!"

Seriously guys (and girls) the announcement of new tech is HUGE. For years we have heard the oh no, we can't do that from PGI, now they say it and some of you guys still birch and moan?! Also they are keeping assault in and adding another new game mode! This is a record we literaly just hot Esscort now we get incursion in awhile!

PGI seriously this is one of the best road maps ever! I look very much forward to this year with my wallet at the ready!

[Weepy Wanebow]

I think balancing things will be easier once their are fairly even things to balance against. Balancing cUAC family against isUAC family is gonna be easier then balancing against standard isAC family. Clan weapons will still have an advantage to their IS counterparts but when PGI can start focusing on isERML vs cERML instead of isML there is a better chance that things will level out better. (Though isPulse vs cPulse isnt perfect but it is better then it has been in years past). Also if the skill tree takes over for the majority of quirks, pilot skills, and modules then we may see skills that "increase pulse laser range" or "decrease laser duration". So it it may not be too bad. I'm aware that PGI doesnt have the best track record but 1)not everything they have done has been a total disaster, and 2) perhaps attempting the same route of things was one of the primary issues with working towards better balance (i.e. no matter how much we quirk this mech it still sorta sucks but if you increase this one particular quirk by even 5 more percent it is suddenly the best mech ever so wtf, this system doesn't seem to be working well. We need to try something different)

I think redoing some hit boxes and model geometry on the older mechs is still in super serious order (seriously there is no reason for the Trebuchet to have a CT that big, on top of a number of other issues with many of the older designs ). I'm sure heavy lasers and MRMs will have their issues but I doubt they will be more crazy disruptive as any of the mech addition to the game have been.

Also for people who are worried about the older weapons not being used as much.....duh, thats how anything new and better works. Real life, unbalanced games, relatively balanced games (because no game is perfectly balanced), whatever....the new new often takes priorty and favoritism.

[MovinTarget]

CK16, on 17 January 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Sigh, I love how many people always come in to these threads and find anything to ***** about. Like honestly "PGI never releases new content" , *Insert new content from PGI* "Not that kind of new content!"

Seriously guys (and girls) the announcement of new tech is HUGE. For years we have heard the oh no, we can't do that from PGI, now they say it and some of you guys still birch and moan?! Also they are keeping assault in and adding another new game mode! This is a record we literaly just hot Esscort now we get incursion in awhile!

PGI seriously this is one of the best road maps ever! I look very much forward to this year with my wallet at the ready!

To add to this, many even complained when they tried to do stuff on PTS (intel warfare, ED)... and while the big picture ideas didn't pan out:
1) they were willing try something new
2) they put it on PTS instead of shoving it down our throats and telling us to like it

Before anyone complains about the PTS, would like them to speak of how much time they personally spent play testing on the PTS before trashing things. Were results mixed? Of course or they would have pushed the changes out, but I remember several people that actually gave ED a try say something to the effect of "Okay its not as bad as I thought it was"

I suspect that while those ventures had the appearance of lost man hours, their devs figured out some things that they are now able to implement in production better than before, if at all.

If you plot a route on Google Maps, do you have to follow it explicitly? Can you not take a rest stop? A scenic detour?

Its called a roadmap for a reason, it's not a "Contractual obligations we will fulfill in the next three months or we'll blow our own brains out"

Sometimes I wondered if they'd be better off not presenting so much information ahead of time, avoiding the rage and speculation...

but then, the forums would get so dull....

[Greenburg Godzillas]

So, will the Clan Heavy Large Laser be a Clan ER Large Laser with double the burn time?

[Duvanor]

Nah it is that thing that deals 1.5 times the damage of an ER LL at 3/5 the range. But it generates 60% more heat and weights the same as the ER LL at 3 criticals instead of one.
...
And it will probably get an insane burn time.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Greenburg Godzillas, on 17 January 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

So, will the Clan Heavy Large Laser be a Clan ER Large Laser with double the burn time?

with the range increments of IS standar lasers, the highest heat of any other clan laser (even ER pulse), and them taking more critical slots then their ER and pulse cousins.....but yes because of the high damage output I'm sure you will see a longer burn time, if only slightly so, then any other laser in the game. I also suspect that ghost heat triggers will be at a lower threshold for them then other lasers as well. People will ***** but the heavy medium laser does 10 damage and the large does 16. I mean even with them being at the lower end of the range spectrum after the introduction of a lot of other tech.....that's still a pretty brutal pimp slap back handing. I mean that mofo is even rocking rings basically. Though they could gimp the recharge time as well in which case they won't be very good. But i think of they have it produce a temporary HUD scrabble it should buff out. (In lore they interfere with sensors and making shooting effectively more difficult via an in game penalty on all attacks during the round they are fired)

Edited by Smell Da Glove, 17 January 2017 - 09:34 AM.

[Dee Eight]

CapperDeluxe, on 15 January 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Laser AMS please please please!!!

THey're never going to do it. Why replace a perfectly good AMS that has 100 times the ammo efficiency of the stuff in tabletop, with one that has no ammo limit, but generates HEAT and requires players to install extra heatsinks.

[CK16]

Dee Eight, on 17 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

THey're never going to do it. Why replace a perfectly good AMS that has 100 times the ammo efficiency of the stuff in tabletop, with one that has no ammo limit, but generates HEAT and requires players to install extra heatsinks.

Because options are nice? I can see it being useful in like FW where ammo matters and not needing it is a benefit.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dee Eight, on 17 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

THey're never going to do it. Why replace a perfectly good AMS that has 100 times the ammo efficiency of the stuff in tabletop, with one that has no ammo limit, but generates HEAT and requires players to install extra heatsinks.

Why add any new 'mechs, when we have perfectly good ones already?

[Suntech]

I hope new Tech will be positive for Inner Sphere Mechs, bcos with new install Clan Mechs like the Marauder IIC and others, the Clan Mechs is overwhelming especially in far distance. I know myself as Clan Mech myself. I hope the improvement provide new positive Tech for IS or some IS Mechs with overwhelming quirks at least 20 %. The Clans are stronger in all most of weapon system like energie weapon and far distance. But if the do clever loadouts building they are stronger in ballistic and missiles than IS Mechs too. Thats really depressing slowly. i hope with the new roadmap the balance get a bit equal. For example why not for only IS mechs at least 3 ballistic hardpoints on different components for heavy or assault mechs ? Thats a way for balance againts Clan Mechs. Or radical 300 tons for IS for fraction games. 265 tons are still to few. Greetings.

Edited by Suntech, 17 January 2017 - 12:19 PM.

[Hawk819]

Greenburg Godzillas, on 17 January 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

So, will the Clan Heavy Large Laser be a Clan ER Large Laser with double the burn time?

nope. In fact, think of the Clan Heavy as a Inner Sphere regular lasers: poor range, will disrupt HUD, and more heat output; but have better damage output with each shot.

[SuperFunkTron]

Suntech, on 17 January 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

I hope new Tech will be positive for Inner Sphere Mechs, bcos with new install Clan Mechs like the Marauder IIC and others, the Clan Mechs is overwhelming especially in far distance. I know myself as Clan Mech myself. I hope the improvement provide new positive Tech for IS or some IS Mechs with overwhelming quirks at least 20 %. The Clans are stronger in all most of weapon system like energie weapon and far distance. But if the do clever loadouts building they are stronger in ballistic and missiles than IS Mechs too. Thats really depressing slowly. i hope with the new roadmap the balance get a bit equal. For example why not for only IS mechs at least 3 ballistic hardpoints on different components for heavy or assault mechs ? Thats a way for balance againts Clan Mechs. Or radical 300 tons for IS for fraction games. 265 tons are still to few. Greetings.

I'm really trying to understand this idea that there is such a huge disparity in Clan vs IS weaponry at this point. The only real advantage that can be claimed is range at this point. Sure, the Clan lasers do a little more damage, but that is coming at the cost of a much longer burn time, which leaves them exposed for longer and also means the damage is more likely to spread. If you look at Autocannons, clan has more available UAC's, but again, they fire multiple slugs per salvo and thus spread damage more than the pinpoint single rounds of the IS Autocannons. If you look at missiles, the difference is in the grouping of the missiles with IS firing a wall of missiles and clans firing a chain... can't really argue for much disparity there, just different flavors of delivery.

I'm not opposed to the 40% heat penalty on ST loss unless it proves to be too destructive. However, we will soon approach a point where the extended range and slightly higher damage output will be of no benefit when discussing IS vs Clan balance. Even before more the January patch is implemented, you can consistently see IS mechs laying major beat downs with all ER large laser builds on open maps like polar highlands and you can see them wipe out clan forces in mid and close range brawls on maps like Frozen city.

At a certain point new player tendencies need to be given their fair share of blame as those habits are what seem to cause more imbalance than the tech does. Play styles of new players (typically timid, fearful, distance maintaining) do not allow them to take advantage of the IS tech's more efficient mid to close range fighting, giving the false impression that they are under powered, but the reality is that they have the advantage of less damage spread and are devastatingly effective as range shortens in comparison to can mechs. I think that after the added to heat to side torsoed clan mechs is added, that the next step in addressing Clan vs IS "imbalance" is to create more in game information and even tutorials that clearly point out and explain the strengths and weakness of both groups.

Your suggestion of giving the IS something drastic like a 300 ton drop deck vs the clan 240 or even 250 could only work if the clan mechs had some of their weapon efficiency restored to a more tabletop-like state, similar to when the first clan wave was released in game. I've been in a lot of FP matches now that have had well matched teams or collections of pilots from different units and the matches were consistently decided not by tech but the application of their strengths by forcing battles at the optimal ranges for their builds or tactics. At times I'd say that the clans even seem to under perform when it comes to spitting range, and despite this, I'd rather maintain a tactical and functional difference between the two techs so that they can each maintain some sense of character and that each side has its strengths coming at the expense of drawbacks.

Rather than thinking of how we can keep making the parity of the two sides more identical, I think we need to start suggesting how can we help players better understand what their tech brings to the table and where it can be exploited. The trade offs for tech should be balanced and we need to make sure that we don't keep pushing for a 1 to 1 balance that makes Clan and IS tech too similar.

[Arkhangel]

Another thing that might help is incentivizing Clanners to actually PLAY like Clanners, at least in FW, and have some stiff penalties C-bill or XP wise for not acting like them.

[MovinTarget]

Arkhangel, on 17 January 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Another thing that might help is incentivizing Clanners to actually PLAY like Clanners, at least in FW, and have some stiff penalties C-bill or XP wise for not acting like them.

would be good, but how would PGI enforce it?

[CanisDirusRex]

Commander A9, on 13 January 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

Oh joy. More nerfs to Clans.

Big damn surprise. :/

Yeh! It seems like Russes philosophy is if it's broke break it more.

[K19]

Time line PGI never show in game!! This joke good wait see.. INfo
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/3060 check cry next...

Guns..

• Lyran Alliance introduces the BattleMech Claw.
  
• Federated Suns starts production of Mechanical Jump Boosters.
  
• Draconis Combine introduces the PPC Capacitor.
  
• The Inner Sphere model of the Ultra Autocannon/20 is unveiled almost simultaneously by the Lyran Alliance and Free Worlds League.
  
• Clan Cloud Cobra introduces VTOL Equipment.
  
• Clan Coyote finishes development of the Advanced Tactical Missile System ATM 3.
  
• Clan Coyote finishes development of the ATM 6.
  
• Clan Coyote finishes development of the ATM 9.
  
• Clan Coyote finishes development of the ATM 12
  
• Clan Diamond Shark and Clan Nova Cat field the Shadow Hawk IIC 4 BattleMech variant for their second-line forces.
  
• Clan Diamond Shark fields the Ha Otoko BattleMech.
  
• Clan Fire Mandrill introduced the Predator BattleMech.
  
• Clan Smoke Jaguar creates the Light Machine Gun.
  
• Clan Smoke Jaguar creates the ER Micro Laser.
  
• Clan Smoke Jaguar creates the Micro Pulse Laser.
  
• The Fire Scorpion 2 'Mech variant is introduced.
  
• The Stalking Spider 2 variant is introduced.
  
• The Lyran Alliance begins production of the Fenrir battle armor.
  
• Clan Star Adder begins production of the Corona.
  
• The Bishamon BattleMech is introduced.
  
• Clan Star Adder introduces the Blood Asp BattleMech.
  
• The Cobra BattleMech is introduced by Defiance Industries.
  
• The Pompier GM-3HT FireMech variant begins production for commercial and governmental sales.
  
• Achernar BattleMechs begins product of the HCL-1 Heavy Lifter CargoMech.
  
• The Cossack BattleMech is introduced by the St. Ives Compact.
  
• The Cronus BattleMech is introduced.

LIke see only this stf in game realy not time no money bay all use in game New GUNS MW2??? like MW4