83 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

BLOOD WOLF, on 13 January 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

Well, the IS are going to be getting weapon buffs in the form of new weapons(with trade offs).

Getting new guns doesn't fix the current guns, though, and I'd really hate to have a whole set of useless equipment in the game. Hell, they need to buff the current equipment simply because the new stuff will be broken in a bad way if they don't, since the necessary deltas to differentiate will push them over the tipping point.

For example, without quirks, current MedLas+LPL vomit builds have the same heat efficiency (actually a little worse) as Clan ERMed+LPL builds for the damage when you look at the fully built 'Mech, despite having shorter range. Shorter range builds should have better heat efficiency, always, otherwise there is no reason to ever choose shorter range when it comes to lasers. If IS ERMed are hotter than standard Med are now, it makes the IS ERMed+LPL builds run way too hot for what they are supposed to be doing.

[Andi Nagasia]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

Getting new guns doesn't fix the current guns, though, and I'd really hate to have a whole set of useless equipment in the game. Hell, they need to buff the current equipment simply because the new stuff will be broken in a bad way if they don't, since the necessary deltas to differentiate will push them over the tipping point.

For example, without quirks, current MedLas+LPL vomit builds have the same heat efficiency (actually a little worse) as Clan ERMed+LPL builds for the damage when you look at the fully built 'Mech, despite having shorter range. Shorter range builds should have better heat efficiency, always, otherwise there is no reason to ever choose shorter range when it comes to lasers. If IS ERMed are hotter than standard Med are now, it makes the IS ERMed+LPL builds run way too hot for what they are supposed to be doing.

it depends on how they work the Stats of the IS weapons,
if they reduce the Heat of X Pulse to that of Current MWO IS-Pulse +1 or +2, then IS get ER Pulse,
so it may move from ML + LPL to ERML + XLPL more Range more Heat, that could be the trade off,

[Brenden]

Here's my hope list...

IS:
-Cossack ( http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cossack )
-Lancelot (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lancelot )

CLAN:
-Firemoth (http://www.sarna.net...re_Moth_(Dasher) )
-Cougar (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cougar )

[Y E O N N E]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 January 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

it depends on how they work the Stats of the IS weapons,
if they reduce the Heat of X Pulse to that of Current MWO IS-Pulse +1 or +2, then IS get ER Pulse,
so it may move from ML + LPL to ERML + XLPL more Range more Heat, that could be the trade off,

You missed my point entirely.

The point is that the current shorter-range IS vomit builds are already at the appropriate heat they need to be if they were longer-ranged vomit and that if the longer ranged weapons end up any hotter than the short-range ones are now, it will be too hot for the bracket given the difference in number of heat-sinks the two sides bring. X-Pulse don't change that.

TL;DR: the stock heat from a 3xLL/LPL + 5x ML Black Knight is the heat that 3xLPL/LL + 5x ERML needs to be generating for it to be 1:1 competitive with the Clan version.

Andi Nagasia, on 13 January 2017 - 10:02 PM, said:

remember us Clan get our own share of weapons(ATMs HeavyLasers I-PPCs),
OmniSuperchargers, and Watchdog Composite Electronic Warfare System (CEWS)

Clans don't get Enhanced ER PPCs (what you are calling I-PPCs) as new tech. Those are actually legacy tech and straight-up inferior to Clan ER PPCs. There's no reason to add them to the game.

[Archangel.84]

Biggest Clan NewTech in terms of weapons is Heavy Lasers and ATMs (HAG is a bit later still), so Blood Asp or (far less likely) Savage Coyote would be likely showcases I think. I'd say Rabid Coyote is a possibility for ATMs, but it's a Battlemech so... probably not? Oh, there's micro lasers too - maybe they'll shock us all and introduce tiny little Protomechs that look up at Locusts but you get respawn.

IS NewTech array is...vast. LFE, Heavy Gauss, MRMs, Rotary ACs, full array of ER lasers, Pulse lasers, Ultra ACs, LB-X ACs. Heavy Gauss and MRMs would seem like reasonable centerpiece techs, so maybe Fafnir and... hmm not really sure what would be good for MRMs to be honest.

[CK16]

I would put money on the Nova Cat

as for the 2nd, MK II or Blood Asp

[FLG 01]

Archangel.84, on 13 January 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

IS NewTech array is...vast. LFE, Heavy Gauss, MRMs, Rotary ACs, full array of ER lasers, Pulse lasers, Ultra ACs, LB-X ACs. Heavy Gauss and MRMs would seem like reasonable centerpiece techs, so maybe Fafnir and... hmm not really sure what would be good for MRMs to be honest.

True, and there is more. Just think of new additions to the PPC family: snub-nose, light, heavy, and capacitators. The snub-nose PPC in particular is something I look forward to very much.
And, although it may not be in true Steiner-fashion... I really want to see what I can do with a light Gauss.

[Valdarion Silarius]

CK16, on 13 January 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

I would put money on the Nova Cat

as for the 2nd, MK II or Blood Asp

I still think the Rifleman IIC/Warhammer IIC are going to get in first before they jump the gun. The new tech gives PGI the opportunity to finally make the proper load outs when selling both mechs. The Rifleman IIC will finally get proper load outs 1 through 5, and the Warhammer IIC will receive configs 1 through 4.

I really hope they don't overlook these two mechs in favor of MW4 mech popularity. I'd be extremely disappointed if they just cut off with the Marauder IIC for clan second line battle mechs...

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

The heat penalty isn't much of a penalty, though. When you lose an ST, it typically takes a large portion of your firepower with it. So your two or three lasers left-over fire a little hotter, big deal. That's not going to really hurt your output. And even if it does, we're getting to a point where being able to survive an ST loss is a useless feature. What then?

Hmm, I think I see some of the issues with how balance is viewed, due to where the player is coming from. Unit players, or those players who primarily play as a group/unit and competitive players vs the general population, those who make up the majority of the population.

In a highly competitive game, a Clan mech, or even a IS mech w/STD engine will not last long until the loss of a side torso is done at range, simply due to the "blood in the water" effect, the aggressiveness of play.

In the general population, that aggressiveness is rarely there, or when it shows itself is really momentary. In QP there is also the mix of tech but when you have that QP move to FP, but as a pug among pugs, it has a telling factor, with players taking STD (except for the LRM Atlases... ) smaller payload except for most "meta" IS mechs that can jump between STD and isXL with only the loss of speed and a few heatsinks, such as Battlemaster, T-bolts, Warhammers, Grasshoppers, Black Knights, and a few others. IS lights and most mediums are dependent on isXL, relying on speed as much as the Clan mechs but most can not pack the punch of Clan mechs and the loss of one side torso they are down.

That leaves a tons of IS mechs, due to their small but diverse weapon loads, do not have that luxury, but they run a STD cause isXL is suicide, even if gave them a better punch.

So take the league play. If the isXL survived the loss of a side torso but slightly higher movement/heat penalty, is there any IS mech that might be considered (besides that spider), even if the current set of quirks were kept the same or even reduced slightly (but no major reductions)? If not, why?

note. Dang I am all over the place, frak it..

[Anjian]

This needs to be in the game.

[El Bandito]

Arnold The Governator, on 13 January 2017 - 11:17 PM, said:

I still think the Rifleman IIC/Warhammer IIC are going to get in first before they jump the gun. The new tech gives PGI the opportunity to finally make the proper load outs when selling both mechs. The Rifleman IIC will finally get proper load outs 1 through 5, and the Warhammer IIC will receive configs 1 through 4.

I really hope they don't overlook these two mechs in favor of MW4 mech popularity. I'd be extremely disappointed if they just cut off with the Marauder IIC for clan second line battle mechs...

They got the original Warhammer and Rifleman in game already, so I bet we will see the IIC versions of them this year.

Anjian, on 13 January 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

This needs to be in the game.

NGyr is basically 5 tons heavier Nova Cat.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 January 2017 - 11:28 PM.

[Too Much Love]

It would be DejaVu from summer 2014, when Clans happened.

And it will go the same pattern: "buy the pack if you want to live", anything else is unplayeble, much QQ on the forums, "nerf it blah blah", then it comes out for Cbills, then its nerfed.

Repeat the circle.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

...
NGyr is basically 5 tons heavier Nova Cat.

I guess the weight is where it is, if FP/CW is still a (your) thing.

[CK16]

drunkblackstar, on 13 January 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

It would be DejaVu from summer 2014, when Clans happened.

And it will go the same pattern: "buy the pack if you want to live", anything else is unplayeble, much QQ on the forums, "nerf it blah blah", then it comes out for Cbills, then its nerfed.

Repeat the circle.

Except you forgot the line about all the new tech is unlocked for all mechs appon release. I think it won't be nearly as bad as Clan WAve 1.

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

They got the original Warhammer and Rifleman in game already, so I bet we will see the IIC versions of them this year.



NGyr is basically 5 tons heavier Nova Cat.

Nova Cat will be a good addition and be almost the opposite of the Summoner.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 13 January 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

I guess the weight is where it is, if FP/CW is still a (your) thing.

I play CW a lot, and I welcome more 70 ton addition to the Clans.

[Archangel.84]

FLG 01, on 13 January 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

True, and there is more. Just think of new additions to the PPC family: snub-nose, light, heavy, and capacitators. The snub-nose PPC in particular is something I look forward to very much.
And, although it may not be in true Steiner-fashion... I really want to see what I can do with a light Gauss.

Oh derp, how'd I forget Light Gauss. I don't think the PPC family additions will come with this tech jump, or at least they didn't in Battletech but were Jihad-era.

[CK16]

Yea...kind of giddy >.>

[Cabusha]

CK16, on 13 January 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

You guys might get LFE sooo yea you can stop that nonsense...

An engine that is only 75% as good as the clan equivalent. Sooo yea you can stop that nonsense.

[Y E O N N E]

FLG 01, on 13 January 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

True, and there is more. Just think of new additions to the PPC family: snub-nose, light, heavy, and capacitators. The snub-nose PPC in particular is something I look forward to very much.
And, although it may not be in true Steiner-fashion... I really want to see what I can do with a light Gauss.

I don't think we'll be seeing anything mechanically complex (i.e. augments that add a whole new mechanic a la PPC Capacitors).

I'm expecting to see all of the easy stuff like the remaining Ultra AC, LB-X, Streak, and ER laser options. There's a strong chance we'll see LFEs, Heavy Lasers, and MRMs. PGI would be smart to add Light PPC if nothing else from the extended PPC family. Light ACs, too.

More pie-in-the-sky I think would be Rotary ACs, X-Pulse, Heavy PPC, Heavy Gauss, Light Gauss, MagShotGauss, AP Gauss, ATMs, and MMLs. Personally, I really want Plasma Rifles, but I'm not going to trust a hope on that one.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 14 January 2017 - 12:13 AM.

[Too Much Love]