102 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

SuomiWarder, on 15 January 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

It isn't the general idea of jumping above an obstacle and firing that is the issue. "Poptarting" becomes a problem when third person view enters the picture, allowing the jumping mech to see over the obstacle and start aiming before it should be able to see the target. A little practice and soon one can get just barely high enough for weapons to clear, limiting exposure. These things cannot be done when locked in first person view.

For crying out loud, 3PV is so insignificant right now but you're complaining about it anyway? <smh>

Frankly, I'd rather PGI did something like this instead to make it more meaningful.

Edited by Mystere, 15 January 2017 - 01:56 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Another day another whine

[MechaBattler]

Make Gauss charge longer when PPCs are equipped.

Yeah, that's right. Nerf it more. I endorse the further nerfing of gauss rifles. Haha.

[nehebkau]

@ OP

If you are falling, your aim should be crap -- the same as you are with your thrusters on. Without the ground to stabilize you Newton's 3rd law would screw you over badly when swinging tons of mass around in mid air.

That's not a whine -- its physics.

Edited by nehebkau, 15 January 2017 - 02:27 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

nehebkau, on 15 January 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

@ OP

If you are falling, your aim should be crap -- the same as you are with your thrusters on. Without the ground to stabilize you Newton's 3rd law would screw you over badly when swinging tons of mass around in mid air.

That's not a whine -- its physics.

But we're already breaking physics on so many other things that not breaking physics for jump jets would be weird.

Like, we have mechs that aren't even as dense as water running around with feet small enough for them to sink into the ground that can also strap jump jets onto themselves so that they can fly into the air even though based on physics they'd really just be like attaching a rocket to a brick. Just as a small example.

[Snazzy Dragon]

W A R K H A N, on 15 January 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Another day another whine

I'm not even whining. I gave my thoughts, put why I don't think poptarting is overall a bad thing in big bold and underlined letters for people like you to that apparently selectively read, and asked what people's opinions on the matter was.

[Deathlike]

Poptarting's fine for the most part.

It's that IS options are inferior and that there are too many potatoes that go into the fryer instead of charging up that light bulb.

[Vxheous]

SuomiWarder, on 15 January 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

It isn't the general idea of jumping above an obstacle and firing that is the issue. "Poptarting" becomes a problem when third person view enters the picture, allowing the jumping mech to see over the obstacle and start aiming before it should be able to see the target. A little practice and soon one can get just barely high enough for weapons to clear, limiting exposure. These things cannot be done when locked in first person view.

If you are attempting to pop-tart in 3PV, you are doing something wrong

[oldradagast]

Ah, yes - the never-fixed pop-tarting issue that only vanished because it wasn't effective for a while.

No, we don't need to nerf weapons, uber-buff IS, and so forth. Pop-tarting up and down while sniping adds very little of value to the game. Maybe the guy doing it likes it, though that's probably more because of the difficulty in returning any meaningful fire against him vs. the skill required to do it.

PGI could easily fix this by putting in some crosshairs shake on the descent from a jump-jet launch. It makes sense - way more than the suddenly perfectly smooth fall we have after firing the jump-jets - and would outright end the silly pop-tart sniping aspect to the game. Done right, the shake would be small enough to still allow for effective use of jump-jets in a brawl, which is really about the only time jumping + shooting should be reasonably accurate, IMHO.

[chucklesMuch]

Pop/hover-tarting fine. IS vs Clan options less so, IS need more options.

[Jungle Rhino]

I don't really pop tart per se - but I use JJs to get shots I wouldn't be able to otherwise take because I play scrub potato mechs with sh1tty weapon mounts. I think I actually mostly use JJs to actually navigate terrain - crazy huh!

But yeah - Clan pop tarters are superior because they have ECM, and high mount weapons. QKD-5K comes close as an IS option, but can't fit enough JJs to be a really effective popper and obviously lacks ECM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jungle Rhino, on 15 January 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

But yeah - Clan pop tarters are superior because they have ECM, and high mount weapons. QKD-5K comes close as an IS option, but can't fit enough JJs to be a really effective popper and obviously lacks ECM.

You would be hard-pressed to find a more Summoner-like IS pop-tart than a TDR-9SE on a STD-300 with a full complement of JJs and 18x DHS. If its mounts were higher, like the TDR-9S...

[BourbonFaucet]

Poptarting is back? Have the munchkins come full circle already?

[Snazzy Dragon]

Techorse, on 15 January 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Poptarting is back? Have the munchkins come full circle already?

The introduction of the night gyr for c bills gave players a really good seal-clubbing poptart for quick play.

The hunchback IIC-A was already doing it pretty regularly in the hands of comp players.

The loyalty omni pods put the poptart summoner at the top, and it gets deliciously good PPC quirks from its arms-- on top of structure and agility bonus, and heat gen reduction. It is absolutely the best poptart heavy right now and it's doing it better than poptart mediums can.

[Solis Obscuri]

My opinion? I think PGI ran their franchise into the ground through 2013 with their inattention to gameplay problems, their rush to Open Beta and release, failure to implement any real "convergence" system (as promised) to address boating/alpha-meta, and removal of repair and salvage campaign mechanics. And while they're trying harder now it's against a lot of negative inertia, not with the support of sustained enthusiasm. In a way that saddens me, but they really earned it during that terribly frustrating year.

For junp sniping specifically? Well, it's very easy to do, it breaks hit detection on your mech, and you don't have to worry about your shots getting caught by the invisible wall of air, so there's not much disincentive. Wobbly reticule used to make it a little challenging, but PGI bought the "motion sickness" BS and brought it back to easy mode (while inexplicably leaving in things that really are common motion sickness triggers, like bobbing cockpits and the lateral nystagmus of twirling mid-jump at high speeds).

[LT. HARDCASE]

Snazzy Dragon, on 15 January 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

The introduction of the night gyr for c bills gave players a really good seal-clubbing poptart for quick play.

The hunchback IIC-A was already doing it pretty regularly in the hands of comp players.

The loyalty omni pods put the poptart summoner at the top, and it gets deliciously good PPC quirks from its arms-- on top of structure and agility bonus, and heat gen reduction. It is absolutely the best poptart heavy right now and it's doing it better than poptart mediums can.

There is going to be a lot of forum rage, when the Summoner gets hit with set of 8 weapon quirks.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

LT. HARDCASE, on 15 January 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

There is going to be a lot of forum rage, when the Summoner gets hit with set of 8 weapon quirks.

As there should be cause the Summoner doesnt need to be beaten into the ground with the nerf bat... just the Loyalty R/L Torso pods. But PGI is going to over react and not correctly like always

[Cementi]

First I am not a fan of any gameplay that reduces movement. Not a fan of nascar either but its more exciting than ridge hump corner peak or pop tarting for 10+ mins.

Next, well people hate the table top analogy but.......you never fired while in the air, but when you landed. Now that was a limitation of a table top game but it could be justified in a real time enviroment by saying that the power from weapons is being diverted to the jump jets kind of makes sense since they would not draw power when idle.

So buff the hell out of jump jets so that they are the mobility tool they are supposed to be. Yep even to the point that an assault can spin around fast to deal with a light. That was half the reason to put them on an assault (FYI i favor fast mediums and lights so I by no means feel they need a nerf) Deactivate all weapons while in the air. For 3 seconds after landing you shake the recticle like now to simulate the gyros compensating for the impact.

Ill admit, I have a few pop tart mechs and while I certainly use that I tend to use them more for mobility and poping up to take pot shots as I move to a flank postion. Often to intentionally give away my position to pull people out of position. Will I miss being able to do that, very likely but I will love having proper mobility on my jump jets. Jumping was supposed to make you harder to hit not easier. The insanely slow speed of current jets seems to do the exact opposite of what they are supposed to do.

Thats my feelings on the subject though alot of people, myself included, do not like changes that remove a type of gameplay. However considering the abberrant behaviors that were caused by how jump jets used to and currrently behave I think in this case it is warranted.

[Y E O N N E]

Food for thought: removing pop-tarting completely utterly destroys the utility of certain 'Mechs...like the Mist Lynx. I'm not even talking about PPC pop-tarting, but the bouncy brawling type of play it does with SRMs and cSPLs.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 January 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Food for thought: removing pop-tarting completely utterly destroys the utility of certain 'Mechs...like the Mist Lynx. I'm not even talking about PPC pop-tarting, but the bouncy brawling type of play it does with SRMs and cSPLs.

20T mech =/= Brawling