59 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

^ Good read!

[Maker L106]

Well... i'm glad someone read it.

[Anjian]

Maker L106, on 20 January 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

Brace yourself, he's not alone.

To frame this post, understand I've been a fan of From Software's Armored Core series for nearly 20 years at this point. Mechwarrior I've played but not nearly as much as the other. That said with MWO here, the superior game is plain to see to anyone who's stuck around the mech world for a while and it may come across as a hateful post but it is meant seriously when I say this.

Now recently I discovered that I came into the BT universe at a bit of an odd time (apparently around the 3100+ year range where all the psychotic stuff was and I just learned this within the last month). So I've only known things like Jade Falcon after they'd already gone off the deep end making totem mechs and other really odd designs.

With that out of the way I always expected the clans to be in MWO from the description given to me by a friend before i began playing.

Now with that lore tidbit out of the way I'd like to move on to why I consider PGI good (you did not just drop acid) and why MWO is actually a solid game (despite its obvious flaws)

I guess we'll start with the game itself. MWO has flaws, we all know what they are, sometimes hitreg is goofy, RNG on more things than should have it and Disconnects happen. There are also balancing issues that we'll see time and time again because that's just the nature of games. Single player campaign... yeah okay that ones dubious i guess. Grind isn't exactly fun outside of banked premium as well.

That said lets observe what it does correctly. I feel so few actually see this. MWO is a MW game, and a solid one at that. It drops you into a match vs other pilots who can bring basically whatever the hell they want to the battlefield. Your team tasked with defeating them (not always done by elimination) is given the free reigns to do this however the hell they want based on team composition / tactics. What other games provide this in a meaningful way? Battlefield is the only thing I can think of that comes close but in recent years its taken a bit of an odd turn too. The bottom line of correctness is that you have a tactical mech game in which you pilot your machine. As I haven't seen anything good from From Software since AC/FA and their "Tactical" game was more or less a joke there is NOTHING that compares with MWO in the tactical mech shooter arena. Win by default.

Customization is decent. Emphasis on team co-operation. Emphasis on build intellect. Emphasis on skilled play AND decision making. Target prioritization. etc:

And I can hear it now "Yes but WoT does exactly this as well... so..." And yes WoT DOES do similar things but... you can't really bring a Spahpanzer Ru251 into a Tier 3 game now can you? Running whatever you want is highly dependent on what tier level you'd be at. MWO bucks this by having a weight for your group but really that's more about firepower than it is impossibility. (seriously for those of you who haven't played WoT a Tier 3 tank vs a Tier 6+ tank would be a near impossible fight with only very very specific exceptions. Not to mention RNG rolls for damage etc: MWO doesn't have these issues.

Now for PGI itself... this won't be as difficult as you think if you follow my examples.

The only competitor I see to PGI right now in the Mech arena is From Software, hands down and if their last three games or so are any indication of what is going to happen to my beloved Armored Core, then they may as well not even make it. Despite how many people might love Dark Souls / BB the series has gone downhill sharply (just like Berserks protagonists life in the beginning). They've taken things that used to be unique or fun about the PvP in the game and absolutely shat on it for sales to a term I'm not comfortable using.

Similarly PGI has nerfed things into absolute oblivion. so you may be thinking "I don't understand where your going." Consider that in MWO many builds remain viable if not meta. You can run a shadowcat /w 2LPL's or 2-3 ERL's and get away with that shenanigan. Mad-IIC laser vomit mechs that shouldn't do well but do. The everything that is the Locust. You have many ways to actually get into matches and enjoy the game and its mechanics. I'd say the fact that I can and have gotten away with running XL's in the IS Marauder alone is a decent example of what you can get away with and do so successfully. That kind of diversity died in From's titles long ago and not just in the mechaverse, arguably Armored Core was spared the Dark Souls treatment to some degree... but that's another grey area i'd rather not get into here.

"Why compare the two?" Because its relevant to what you're seeing here.

Fanbase that's allover the place in origin shows up at one location, and the mixing never goes perfectly. in Dark Souls its RPG / Mecha SP guys VS the ones who've been doing PvP the entire time and both of these draw different crowds. MWO is easily in the same boat. We have lore guys from the TT days, Noobs like myself from the MW:Merc days (its the one i remember the most) and others from the extended universe and who deeply care about the lore. All of this hits in one place and we have pretty solid community for it. However it separates the views on what SHOULD be in the game and any direction taking a divergent path from that immediately ruffles the feathers of the opposing, often larger, faction in this particular case.

All I want from MWO is a Mechwarrior PvP game that allows me Team based tactical combat on some level where skill, build, and decision making matter. Could it be done better? perhaps. But it delivers on that and it's not a blistering speed game like UT2k+ or touchy like Overwatch and Q3A.

What we need as so many of you have said in the past is new content and direction. We might just get some of that with the future tech this summer. And if i'm honest I don't even care how balanced it is for the first week or two. let that **** just go and see where the dust settles. Hopefully they don't kneejerk nerf anything right out of the gate like way to many companies do these days. Maybe I'm a naive fool who throws out long posts and takes way to deep of a look at how many companies mis-handle updates and perception of balance.

FROM Software doesn't really specialize on massive online games, though their Chromehounds has been praised as one of their greatest ever. If you actually want to see how a mech game with real community warfare works --- different maps on different locations; urban fighting when you invade the enemy's capital city --- victory leads to the defeat of the faction --- you got Chromehounds. Not to mention its customization is the most detailed I have yet seen in any game, except well, Armored Core.

However, this game is way too advanced for its time, it could have thrived in an F2P ecosystem, but the concept of popular F2P massive games are still years away when its servers closed. The fact that SEGA was the one publishing it (incompetent company) and it was only for the XBox 360 helped doom it. This is one game that I felt got it right except for figuring out who is going to pay for the servers after you bought the game. Microsoft marketed it to help sell the XBox 360 to the Japanese market and that was only good for a few months before Sony kicked the XBox back into a corner in Japan. At this point, Mechwarrior was a dead franchise in Microsoft's eyes, it didn't even seriously start an effort for an MW game for the XBox.

MWO is no longer the only tactical mech shooter now in the market and PGI has a new competitor. This one sneaked right up in all our noses. Suddenly this game is now in the 10 to 50 million category Google Play download category, probably a near equal number to that in the Apple Play Store. And while I gave it only a one star, panned the game in the review for being pay to win, poorly balanced, another more than 300,000 players gave it a five star, for a current total and still growing 970,000 plus five star reviews. Obviously for a lot of other players, something is right. When it comes to it, it also has a lot of things people here dream and talk in the forums --- respawns, significant TTK, cones of fire, auto aim centering, quad mechs, no server or hit reg issues, good variety of weapons. It has a strong audience from Japan, Korea, the US, Russia, Latin America, South East Asia, a truly international player base, allegedly with player peaks up to 500,000 simultaneous online. Very steady servers, probably using Google's cloud platform, except on peaks on Sundays, when sometimes I can't login.

And it all happened in a freaking smartphone or tablet.

It has proven a few things.

That a mech game can be successful with a brand new, never heard of IP. The game literally has no story or lore, other than an "Iron War" is taking place.

That a slowish mech game, tactical shooter, can outright commercially compete with FPS shooters in a highly competitive market.

That Pay to Win can still be popular. (However the win stuff isn't expensive to buy, which also leads to everyone having it --- the people who refuse to spend on principle, like I did, gets clubbed; Now I open my wallet).

That such games are possible in a mobile platform. I don't need a high end gaming PC or notebook to play this, nor do I have to invest on a console. An IPad or iPhone, any mid to high range Android tablet or smartphone will do.

Actually the game is fun. Very fun indeed. But it has hidden tiers players refer to as Bronze, Low Silver, High Silver, and the top Gold. The game levels you up faster than you can afford to upgrade your mechs, and soon your win rate goes down when you find yourself getting clubbed by better upgraded mechs and weapons. (I did find a formula for staying low to mid tier, and that's not to upgrade or spend at all --- irony). The fact that your tiers are named like that, suggest also something.

I don't recommend it for P2W, still has limited number of mechs and maps, but it is crazy fun and I can see why millions are playing it. Its recommended to study its mechanics, and especially because of its simplicity and sheer accessibility. Simplicity and user friendliness are actually a much more important ingredient to a game's success than most would realize. People just want to hop in, and get their 10 minutes of fun anytime.

And why it bears watching? Because an entirely new audience of mech gamers are growing up, never heard of Mechwarrior, don't care about it. Heck it even has its own esports venue.

People need to stop thinking that MWO is the top of the tactical mech game heap. Something already just grabbed it from right under our noses in terms of the sheer popularity and player scale (though not in balance and fairness). WR doesn't threaten MWO on the PC, it doesn't have to --- game capable mobile devices far outnumber gaming PCs and even consoles.

For the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise to survive and remain relevant in the long term, it would need a foothold in the mobile market.

Edited by Anjian, 20 January 2017 - 09:27 PM.

[WolvesX]

I still stand by this post!

This game deserves much more players, because its is really good.

[NeoCodex]

WolvesX, on 17 January 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:

Faction Warfare is really, really fun to play and well implemented. For such a small studio, the quality of the product is very high and for so low player numbers you can find matches quite fast.

[WolvesX]

NeoCodex, on 20 March 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

[/center]

Well at was at the time I wrote it. I enjoyed it very much.

[Red Shrike]

I must say there's a difference between someone who started playing last month and someone who played back in closed beta.

The way I see it, the difference is that the new player judges the game for what it is, and the closed beta player judges the game for what it could have been. (and in some cases should have, as well)

I mean, the game runs, the gameplay isn't terrible, CW isn't the apocalypse. But lemme tell ya, the game could've been triple the game it is today and so much more. (the CW they promised us, etc.)

I'm giving it a 7/10 for what they have, and a 1/10 for failing to deliver on past plans/promises. 4/10 total.

Edited by Red Shrike, 20 March 2017 - 01:31 AM.

[Black Ivan]

Indeed. the game could be so much more, but PGI did not built upon it. Now we have FWwth minimal viable population and meaningless worlds. Quickplay suffers from an MM that is more an XP bar than indication of skill

[NeoCodex]

I don't know how much I would give it. Have a love/hate relationship with it. I still play it once in a while and have fun with it. I don't even know why I'm still buying the packs, either.

The thing that kills the fun for most for me is just the concept of the games themselves, long loading and waiting times to start a game, everything is so damn slow and tedious. Action is always fun tough. I just don't have the patience to keep playing after a few rounds anymore, feels such a time waster.

But the best part that makes it better is playing with friends (as does any other game) however much more for this one. I can pretty much stay up all evening when we're hanging out together on voip, but get bored playing solo really fast. But most of my favorite buddies don't play anymore. When we do get together once or twice per year again tho it's a blast.

[C E Dwyer]

Davegt27, on 20 January 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

bug?

yup that qualifies

[C E Dwyer]

Red Shrike, on 20 March 2017 - 01:30 AM, said:

I must say there's a difference between someone who started playing last month and someone who played back in closed beta.

The way I see it, the difference is that the new player judges the game for what it is, and the closed beta player judges the game for what it could have been. (and in some cases should have, as well)

I mean, the game runs, the gameplay isn't terrible, CW isn't the apocalypse. But lemme tell ya, the game could've been triple the game it is today and so much more. (the CW they promised us, etc.)

I'm giving it a 7/10 for what they have, and a 1/10 for failing to deliver on past plans/promises. 4/10 total.

I think your being a little harsh, the current game play is no worse than game leaders like Wargamming, but in general your correct.

The match maker in populated games, isn't much better, certainly from my experience in World of Warships stomps happen almost as frequently.

P.G.I is it's own worse enemy and the source of a great deal of the salt around here. In over four years they have still not learned that they haven't the ability to deliver their big plans, yet keep promising the stars to players.

I think an 8/10, 3/10 and 6/10 in your categories is closer.

If they do get a working skill tree out, and not just abandon it, I'd be more inclined to give them 5/10, 7/10 in the last two categories

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Cathy, on 20 March 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

yup that qualifies

Thought that was a feature though, isn't that just a light mech speed trap?

[Red Shrike]

Cathy, on 20 March 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

I think your being a little harsh, the current game play is no worse than game leaders like Wargamming, but in general your correct.

The match maker in populated games, isn't much better, certainly from my experience in World of Warships stomps happen almost as frequently.

P.G.I is it's own worse enemy and the source of a great deal of the salt around here. In over four years they have still not learned that they haven't the ability to deliver their big plans, yet keep promising the stars to players.

I think an 8/10, 3/10 and 6/10 in your categories is closer.

If they do get a working skill tree out, and not just abandon it, I'd be more inclined to give them 5/10, 7/10 in the last two categories

If we take Wargaming's World of Tanks, you can see a few similarities like light, medium and heavy. Indirect fire is a grievance in both games.
But the biggest difference is that World of Tanks has boundaries where MWO doesn't. In MWO you can put a Large Laser on a Locust, but in WoT you can't put an 85mm D5-T on a Chaffee. But if they could, everyone would. The freedom offered in MWO means the difference between stock and "top" (ie most optimal build) is so much larger.

At this point, I enjoy MW4:M's multiplayer more than MWO's. Perhaps because MW4:M has maps that aren't trying to direct the player.

Edited by Red Shrike, 20 March 2017 - 04:56 AM.

[Elizander]

Bittervets are just as easily triggered as SJWs now. :3

[Anjian]

I would take War Thunder's and MW4's multiplayer experience over MWO, though I would take MWO's multiplayer experience over Armored Warfare, World of Tanks and now even World of Warships, which has evolved/devolved with gimmicks like smoke and stealth.

Can you imagine if Wargaming's spotting and stealth mechanics are applied to this game?

[meteorol]

Anjian, on 20 January 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

Wow, that looks terrible. Almost disgustingly bad. Threw up in my mouth a little while watching the video.

[Stone Wall]

Elizander, on 20 March 2017 - 05:28 AM, said:

Bittervets are just as easily triggered as SJWs now. :3

http://imgur.com/98W0XSl

[Vanguard319]

nothing fair about a matchmaker that pairs you up with a bunch of pugs who may or may not be competent, and pits you against a team that is comprised mainly of one or two premade named units who can and will bury you without any real effort on their part.

[nehebkau]

Plastic Guru, on 17 January 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

And.....cue the Bitter Vets (or as I know them "Auxiliary Salt Saying Homogeneous Osmotic Legal Enforcement Service) who will refute everything you just said and will smite you with their intelligence, beauty, and righteousness....or so they keep saying.

Love MWO...but I've only been playing since the summer. Found out I really suck at this game but have a ball anyway. I love my Light mechs!!

I fully agree with you by the way...

Cheers

Ok, Ill bite..... you did notice that the OP was playing clans right.



(lol how was that?)

[Linkin]

Quote button is broken for me...

Red Shrike
Posted Yesterday, 02:30 AM
I must say there's a difference between someone who started playing last month and someone who played back in closed beta.

The way I see it, the difference is that the new player judges the game for what it is, and the closed beta player judges the game for what it could have been. (and in some cases should have, as well)

I mean, the game runs, the gameplay isn't terrible, CW isn't the apocalypse. But lemme tell ya, the game could've been triple the game it is today and so much more. (the CW they promised us, etc.)

I'm giving it a 7/10 for what they have, and a 1/10 for failing to deliver on past plans/promises. 4/10 total.
-End Quote


Agreed- the game is what it is, and is fun to play every now and then with friends. That won't stop me from wishing for what was pitched (pillars, roles, involved FW, and such) at the start however. So I guess I'll just settle for grabbing a beer, talking with friends, and thinking wistful thoughts as I attempt to shoot that damn locust