426 replies to this topic

[PFC Carsten]

Wuldain, on 20 January 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

No, you keep forgetting. WE DONT HAVE A CHOICE. It's simple. You have a choice.

• We don't have the choice to put a ERLL into our head energy hardpoint.
  
• We do not have the choice to use the 2 crit slots in our legs for DHS's.
  
• We do not have the choice to mount (ER-)PPCs in components with only 2 slots open.
  
• We do not have the choice to use cERMLs that almost best isLLs in almost every aspect and weigh only one ton.
  
• We do not have the choice to build streak boats because SSRM-2 *doh*.
  
• We do not have... Machine Guns (very high tech weapons!!) that only weigh 0,25 tons, giving us 4 per ton instead of 2.
  
• We do not have the choice of equipping targetting computers, speeding up our ballistics, extending the range of our lasers, increasing our crit chance etc.pp. even more.
  
• We do not have the choice of mounting AC20s alongside an XL-engine in our side torsi, because of... you know our XLs take up 3 crits there.
  
• We do not have the choice for Gauss Rifles weighing only 12 tons and occupying 6 slots (ours are 15 & 7).
  
• We do not have the choice of equipping FF armor and Endosteel costing only 7 crits of space - we have to pay DOUBLE.

Yeah, poor, poor clanners.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 21 January 2017 - 02:49 AM.

[Marius Evander]

Wish i didn't sell than (C) zeus thry gave me for free now =(

[HGAK47]

Overall I am looking forward to this little patch!

As a Dragon pilot I am quite excited for the maneuverability improvements but did you REALLY need to nerf the DRG-Flame by 5% to put it in line with the others? That mech needs help too lol.

One last thing - I'm no professional and I understand that you devs are thinking about overall engine balancing but as it stands Clan mechs surviving Side torso loss is a much bigger bonus than any heat penalty when compared to IS mechs ST deaths. And please dont get me wrong I am by no means a Clanner or IS loyalist as I like mechs on both sides but the difference is noticeable.

Edited by HGAK47, 21 January 2017 - 03:27 AM.

[Zuesacoatl]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 20 January 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

Sure... I will totally agree with that trade, Omnimechs are demolished and you cant change Omnipods but can use a STD, isXL is not insta-death. oh wait... your entire premise is garbage and you did not think it out at all, did you?

You remind me of that salty angry needy child in willy wankas "But I want it now"

This is still and foremost a BattleTech game. as such, some of the flavor needs to stay, and that is isxl dies and clan does not when ST lost. Get over it, or cry in the desert, I am sure they need a river lol

PGI, I like the changes, I play both sides. The minor insignificant loss on the whm is not going to affect much, and the change to clan XL brings it closer to lore, and brings another flavor to the loss of an ST. Do not listen to these man children throwing themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming cause their favorite toy was messed with by another kid. They think they can bully you into submission with their little "I wont drop a dime until I get my way" threats, keep proving them wrong, and those of us who truly support your game will keep whaling for you while you keep trying to make the game fun for ALL, and not just the few whiners here on the forums.

[ingramli]

Lemme present my thanks to PGI for nerfing warhammer, the last IS mech which (may) close to fair game with clan's offerings, i will switch my resources (C-Bills, MC, and time to grind xp) to Clan's offering from now on. Seriously, ClanXL is already unfair enough, a 40% heat penalty is nothing compare to instant death of IS 's XL, nothing will change the fact unless excessive bonus (heat, structure slots, weight, or whatever meaningful) is given to IS's mech when they are alive to balance it out, but i dont think this will happen any time soon, or will happen at all.

[Ninjah]

The good:

Switching structure quirks to armor - my guess is that structure quirks cause some damage reg issues like a shadowhawk taking two alphas from 6spl to an opened dark yellow CT and moving on like nothing happened. You should apply this to Catapults, Shadowhawks, Marauders and many more. It freaking redicilous how much fire is needed to destroy an armorless component on some IS mechs.

Nerfing poptarting

The bad:

PGI always fixes stuff that no one asked for and leave burning issues untouched. How about FP dropship issue? I have been stuck in a dropship limbo a lot lately causing me to arrive late to the frontline or alt-tab and break immersion cause it sucks to stare at the black screen for a whole minute. People also complain about taking damage before even making to the fight. What about that?

Mechlab issue where the text for mech components gets pushed downward after switching components for a while. Looks sloppy and amateurish and the only way to reset it to normal state is to drop in a match or training ground. Ffs.

Fix getting stuck on walls when using jump jets, Sometimes I get stuck so bad that a wall geometry rips my leg armor completely. I learned most of the places where it happens but I still have problems with that.

Hit reg is still questionable and it's gotten worse lately. I see many cases when dmg doesn't get registered at all especially for smrs. It's very annoying and game breaking when you deliver a killing blow and the enemy mech just walks away after taking a full alpha. Also hit from the front damage goes to the back has returned.

Too much QP maps in FP! Fields need to be adjusted so that we see FP maps more often. I like FP maps but I only get to play them few times in 3 days lol. Really?

Domintation circle on Alpine is still not fixed! One side gets there a lot faster and has a lot of cover while the other is further away and barely has any cover. Quite unbalanced one could say.

Suggestions:

Mark exits on the FP spawn walls, People have trouble exiting the spawn and can get lost for minutes till they figure out where the bloody exit is. Also clean up debris inside spawns, it's redicilous you can't move and have to backpedal straight out of dropship.

Leaving dropships should have some kind of hyperdrive activating just before the disapper. That would give the impression that they warped out instead of just vanishing in thin air which is plain stupid.

Make a mandatory FP tutorial for newbs explaining some tactics and teamplay basics already.

There are SO MANY things that can be improved in this game but PGI decides to waste time and energy on stuff 90% of the people won't ever notice. So IMHO 80% of this patch is complete BS and a waste of time. Get you priorites straight!

Edited by Ninjah, 21 January 2017 - 03:47 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Wuldain, on 20 January 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

No, you keep forgetting. WE DONT HAVE A CHOICE. It's simple. You have a choice. You exchange speed for survivability. You want your speed, but not the downsides. Imagine the river of tears if it's announced that IS XL wont kill you, but you have a 40 percent heat penalty and a movement penalty as well. You already have weapon quirks to make you more offensive, defensive quirks to make you more tanky, now you want speed and not dying to an xl check. Where do you draw the line, unless you want it back to blackjacks being equivalent to an atlas in the tanking department?

Jenner IIC, Hunchback IIC, Orion IIC, Highlander IIC, Kodiak, Marauder IIC

They have a choice, how many do you think use a STD?

Yes, imagine the tears when the IS XL is balanced vs the Clan XL... ah, glorious tears!

[BluefireMW]

PFC Carsten, on 21 January 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

• We don't have the choice to put a ERLL into our head energy hardpoint.
  
• We do not have the choice to use the 2 crit slots in our legs for DHS's.
  
• We do not have the choice to mount (ER-)PPCs in components with only 2 slots open.
  
• We do not have the choice to use cERMLs that almost best isLLs in almost every aspect and weigh only one ton.
  
• We do not have the choice to build streak boats because SSRM-2 *doh*.
  
• We do not have... Machine Guns (very high tech weapons!!) that only weigh 0,25 tons, giving us 4 per ton instead of 2.
  
• We do not have the choice of equipping targetting computers, speeding up our ballistics, extending the range of our lasers, increasing our crit chance etc.pp. even more.
  
• We do not have the choice of mounting AC20s alongside an XL-engine in our side torsi, because of... you know our XLs take up 3 crits there.
  
• We do not have the choice for Gauss Rifles weighing only 12 tons and occupying 6 slots (ours are 15 & 7).
  
• We do not have the choice of equipping FF armor and Endosteel costing only 7 crits of space - we have to pay DOUBLE.

Yeah, poor, poor clanners.

We don't have the choice to put a ERLL into our head energy hardpoint.

who the hell needs this?

We do not have the choice to use the 2 crit slots in our legs for DHS's.

because water doesn't help, no one is interested, becides clan build Heatsinks are worth less in this game

We do not have the choice to mount (ER-)PPCs in components with only 2 slots open.

are you sure your mech is different with that?

We do not have the choice to use cERMLs that almost best isLLs in almost every aspect and weigh only one ton.

ever heard about the beam duration in this game?

We do not have the choice to build streak boats because SSRM-2 *doh*.

you will get them soon. and then you can streak boat like claners shouldn't ever use, because they are bad

We do not have... Machine Guns (very high tech weapons!!) that only weigh 0,25 tons, giving us 4 per ton instead of 2.

We do not have the choice of equipping targetting computers, speeding up our ballistics, extending the range of our lasers, increasing our crit chance etc.pp. even more.

there will soon be ER Medium, ER Small, MRM, Targeting Computer, Rotary, Heavy Gauss and Light Gauss, Ultra Autocannons of all sizes...

We do not have the choice of mounting AC20s alongside an XL-engine in our side torsi, because of... you know our XLs take up 3 crits there.

It's not the fault of Battletech, that you don't get the Axeman and the AC20 split Criticals...

We do not have the choice for Gauss Rifles weighing only 12 tons and occupying 6 slots (ours are 15 & 7).

We do not have the choice of equipping FF armor and Endosteel costing only 7 crits of space - we have to pay DOUBLE.

because you get the nice Stealth system, or null Signature System...

Then there is C3i, Ammo with crits for std Autocannons, Trible Strength, Rocket Launchers, at least...

But i am sure, weight of things is the only thing you need....

And a real funny thing would be if lore gets used, then your Avatar is able to use all the nice things up there.

Or the nicely upgraded Penetrator, or the Wolf's Dragoons Archer from Jaime Wolf himself.

Yeah, poor, Innere Sphere.

Edited by BluefireMW, 21 January 2017 - 03:48 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Dee Eight, on 20 January 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Did people actually LOOK at the quirk pdf files before posting diatribes, whines and complaints ?

So the shadow cat loses minor structure quirks. Big Whoop. I'll trade some leg and arm structure any day for the extra weapon quirks they're getting.

what weapon quirks? They are set of 8, and the SHC-B gets some basic af 10% missile cooldown, which in no way makes up for only having 2 misssile ports instead of 3, if you build it for missiles anyway, which i never would. Since the B is the only one with ECM, and the only reason i use it over the HBK is the ECM... yeah. just a flat nerfhammer. admittedly it isnt a giganerf but i dont see how it was warranted when the comp scene absolutely prefers the Hunchback.

More balancing by T5 i think, where ECM is probably god mode due to everyone having the aiming ability and situational awareness of a blind man using a steering wheel.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 21 January 2017 - 04:05 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Duke Nedo, on 20 January 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

But it will, and it's not tiny. It completely removes Gauss-whammys from the game.

What's more importantly tho, it shows how clueless PGI are when it comes to faction balance. IS needed buffs across the line, and what do they do? Nerf the only contender IS has, and don't touch NGR and TBR which are the two best heavies in the game. Before this nerf, and even more after the nerf. Just ******* clueless.

that doesn't make any sense at all. Slightly less structure doesn't remove Gauss Whammy's from the game.

"If only this Warhammer had 6 more points of structure, it'd be awesome packing Gauss!" -nobody ever.

[Grixa19]

SmokeGuar, on 20 January 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

Remaining Clan scouts nerfed, even though FW scouting sits 90% of time firmly on IS side. Check.

Marauder IIC head not fixed, even though it is by far easiest to hit. Check. Or make that uncheck, and its only been, what, a month?

Wild guess, handful of pilots shift performance figures on some Clan mechs and rest of population suffers. Personally, both Summoner and Night Gyr are not favorites, and i think lot of players have difficulties with these. Streak Cat on the other hand, my fault.

TimberWolf's, Direwolf's Head is by far easiest to hit.
U are not welcome here if u dont cry "Clans OP, nerf them moar!"

[PanterPaul]

I mostly play IS mechs. I think 8 of 10 games i´m on a IS mech in QP.

A Clan mech is all in all better in whatever. Everybody knows that. Of coures a IS mech can beat a Clan mech, because not every pilot performs same. But on a 1vs1 a clan mech with same tonnage has many many benefits. Maybe to much.
But that´s the way it is. Everyone has the personal liberty to play what he wants.

If the new skill tree will permit Clan mechs the same quirks (not modules) as the IS mechs than in the near future no one will play IS mechs anymore.

I don´t see the reason to nerf a WHM or a DRG. I mean, if i see a WHM or a DRG in front of me i do not scream and get wet pants.

[color=#558ED5]"Continuing the work started last month, the Dragon is seeing its existing Structure Quirks converted into Armor Quirks."[/color]

LOL, how many Dragon did yaou see in a month? I´m allways suprised if i see one a day! Oh look there is a Dragon on our team .

A WHM is a tank? In QP we need some tanks. One of the problem is that many players are to passive. I´m glad that the WHM is one of the mechs that can be used in the frontline, but it´s not a monster!

A KDK-3 is still a over powered monster and it´s necesarry to do something. This mechs makes the game complete unfair! Two or three KDK in one team are usually a win.

How many times do you see a Atlas or a King Crap with a 1000+ dmg game or more than 5+ kills ?? I think extremely rarely.

But nobody is surprised if a KDK make´s a perfect game. And another one ....

That is the problem of the game, and not a WHM, DRG, CTF, HBK or a SHC

NERF THAT DAKKA KDK!

[PFC Carsten]

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We don't have the choice to put a ERLL into our head energy hardpoint.

who the hell needs this?

Apart from the crybaby I responded to whining about the lack of choice (which Clans have - just use your Battlemechs instead of Omnis), High mounted hardpoints are always nice to have. So the answer is „me +n others“

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We do not have the choice to use the 2 crit slots in our legs for DHS's.

because water doesn't help, no one is interested, becides clan build Heatsinks are worth less in this game

It's not about water, it is about crit slots, which IS heavies and up are severly lacking (see below, section about FF/ES for 14 crits EACH).

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We do not have the choice to mount (ER-)PPCs in components with only 2 slots open.

are you sure your mech is different with that?

Pretty much, yeah. It's the difference between having an (ER-)PPC and not having one.

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We do not have the choice to use cERMLs that almost best isLLs in almost every aspect and weigh only one ton.

ever heard about the beam duration in this game?

Yep, and since I'm using ERMLs rather extensively in Quick Play, I can confidently say that despite 1.15 vs. 1.0s burn time, they are a much better choice than isLLs taking up only half the space and weighing 25% of the latter.

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We do not have the choice to build streak boats because SSRM-2 *doh*.

you will get them soon. and then you can streak boat like claners shouldn't ever use, because they are bad

It's "soon™". And again, it's not about what's good and what's not, it's about choice.

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We do not have... Machine Guns (very high tech weapons!!) that only weigh 0,25 tons, giving us 4 per ton instead of 2.

We do not have the choice of equipping targetting computers, speeding up our ballistics, extending the range of our lasers, increasing our crit chance etc.pp. even more.

there will soon be ER Medium, ER Small, MRM, Targeting Computer, Rotary, Heavy Gauss and Light Gauss, Ultra Autocannons of all sizes...

Soon™. I believe it, when I see it. Given the track records, chances are high, PGI will screw this up royally as well.

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We do not have the choice of mounting AC20s alongside an XL-engine in our side torsi, because of... you know our XLs take up 3 crits there.

It's not the fault of Battletech, that you don't get the Axeman and the AC20 split Criticals...

Even then: Do we have the choice™? I guess not.

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

We do not have the choice for Gauss Rifles weighing only 12 tons and occupying 6 slots (ours are 15 & 7).

We do not have the choice of equipping FF armor and Endosteel costing only 7 crits of space - we have to pay DOUBLE.

because you get the nice Stealth system, or null Signature System...

Then there is C3i, Ammo with crits for std Autocannons, Trible Strength, Rocket Launchers, at least...

But i am sure, weight of things is the only thing you need....

And a real funny thing would be if lore gets used, then your Avatar is able to use all the nice things up there.

Or the nicely upgraded Penetrator, or the Wolf's Dragoons Archer from Jaime Wolf himself.

Yeah, poor, Innere Sphere.

We get what? Just searched my mechlab, did not see any of these things. We're talking about choice and right now, IS-choices are severly limited.

Choices, my friend. And the whine from a clanner, that clanners do not have the choice to equip STD engines in Omnimechs conveniently forgetting the choice to use clan Battlemechs with clan STD-engines (I ask myself: Why do I almost never see those?)

Edited by PFC Carsten, 21 January 2017 - 05:06 AM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Folk,

It's better not to try and make sense of the buffs and nerfs. It's a simple rotation technique. If you switch and bait, everyone has to buy different meta's and fillup ye olde dusty mechbays.

I noticed a number of IS mechs losing 'x' structure points but gaining 'x+y' in armour points. If you think about it, this either makes it tankier or if you want, you can save weight for more goodies. Pretty sweet deal.

As for clan mechs being outright better than IS mechs, goodness sakes. There's pro's/cons ALL over the place but the IS massive alpha+short beam time + clan's inability to twist/pad quickly means insta-gone armour
I've been hit with this just from one mech to know how quick your mech can fall to pieces just from a single mistake, two mech's hitting you brings you to your knees straight away. Of course that's range dependant which is where they've made the deliberate difference.

Last few FW matches I played as clan, lost almost all of them but it's still more fun than QP anyways unless you're up against the mighty pre-mades.

[MovinTarget]

Yeah Warhammers needed a nerf... spotted this OP build in FP...



You can tweak mechs all you want, but untill you tweak the pilots...

[Bishop Six]

For weeks im depressed now, because my love is dying...

The Omega Space Ostriches are one of the last remaining IS-Loyalist units standing against the whole brutality of Pro-Units playing Clan (no Problems with that) with OP-engines (problems with that) with faster mechs (Conquest in FP - ridiculous) with more weapon loadout (Im dreaming bad about Ebon Alpha-Vomits) with longer weapon range (poptart-Action everywhere).

And now you are taking away the LAST mech which was useful not to get slaughtered totally....Warhammer was the last useful mech in FP, because you can drive him with XL or STD and both is working.

Battlemasters are all worthless except 2 C with structure quirks.

I mean, all the theory is one side, but reality is the other side.

Example:

Boreal Vault Attack with IS:
ridiculous, we even cant come thriough the gates without loosing too muchg hitpoints etc. Clanners are faster, so we push -> they ran away to next sniper position.

We had so many matches where clanners are always falling back to the next sniping position. But its not their's fault, YOU made the game like this...

Reality is: We are most of the time running after mechs which are faster with more weapon range....thats so ******* frustrating!

I dont care about tonnage, premades or whatever, but FFS please analyse this reality in FP!

Inner Sphere is dying, no beginner stays there after being ***** from Clanners, even most units are changing to Clan, because, yeah they just to win to win sometimes....

Im asking myself, why there are still some last remaining idiots on IS-Faction like we are and...but all in all we have no more than 30 regularly units active (whole IS!) and sometimes useful in FP.

Bringing IS-Pugs in a match against defending Clanner-Pro-Unit o Boreal Vault....i mean what do you expect will happen? I say it: 50 % of Beginners deinstall the game.

And the maps: The newer the map the more are they fitting for Clanner Play Style -> long range, falling back...repeat.

If you dont want to let MWO alive because of other projects, then just say it so i dont have to suffer for months.

[MovinTarget]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 21 January 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

It's better not to try and make sense of the buffs and nerfs. It's a simple rotation technique. If you switch and bait, everyone has to buy different meta's and fillup ye olde dusty mechbays.

This is why I never sell mechs anymore... One days trash is tomorrow's treasure...

[Ninjah]

PGI compare this: an IS heavy vs. Clan heavy. I'll split this into pros and cons for each so let's begin.

Warhammer: Great torso twist, super pinpoint, decent range, good yaw, fast, agile *but* meh DPS, kinda hot, not much armor really and the need for XL, no jump jets, no screen shake effect.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1c12cc0c7b2bffc

Night Gyr: Awesome dakka power, very cool, no ghost heat, enough ammo to do ~1200dmg, causes alarming amounts of screen shake in combat, ability to spread damage horizontally and vertically thanks to it's awesome jump jets (I often get legged in a Gyr because of that), dakka in arms - can shoot targets above an below, awesome DPS, good armor, high mount points (can poptart quite well) *but* not very fast or agile, somewhat larger profile, jams sometimes.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2b4d9e5b5b0ff91

Soo who would win if two equal pilots fought with these? IMHO the Gyr would wreck the warhammer in under 5 seconds. And where is the vaunted balance here?

Edited by Ninjah, 21 January 2017 - 05:32 AM.

[BluefireMW]

PFC Carsten, on 21 January 2017 - 05:03 AM, said:

Apart from the crybaby..
... ners do not have the choice to equip STD engines in Omnimechs conveniently forgetting the choice to use clan Battlemechs with clan STD-engines (I ask myself: Why do I almost never see those?)

Time to use Clan Equipment in IS Mechs, then you will stop crying. The only one crying here is you.
The first list of things you miss came from you.
Cry to Russ Bullock, perhaps finally he give that to you and if you cry loud enough perhaps you can keep your quirks also, to make it 'even' as you wish.

[Duke Nedo]

Wintersdark, on 21 January 2017 - 04:01 AM, said:

that doesn't make any sense at all. Slightly less structure doesn't remove Gauss Whammy's from the game.

"If only this Warhammer had 6 more points of structure, it'd be awesome packing Gauss!" -nobody ever.

With enough ST structure you don't die on gauss explosion in the ST.