426 replies to this topic

[Grey Death Storm]

"The Cooling Efficiency Penalty from Side Torso destruction has been increased to 40% (from 20%)."

Your going to cripple every clan pilot who loses a turso even when they have lost half there bloody weapons with 40% heat penalty specailly when the clanners on his last legs fighting for his/her life, you be lucky fire one or two weapons then you shutdown to overheating, PGI are you going out of your way to complete Brick Clan Mechs

Edited by Grey Death Storm, 21 January 2017 - 05:48 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

BluefireMW, on 21 January 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

Time to use Clan Equipment in IS Mechs, then you will stop crying. The only one crying here is you.
The first list of things you miss came from you.
Cry to Russ Bullock, perhaps finally he give that to you and if you cry loud enough perhaps you can keep your quirks also, to make it 'even' as you wish.

Just had to like your post because it so totally redefines reality to fit your own warped little world. I reacted to clan-crybaby, pointing out glaringly obvious flaws in what might have been interpreted as his point. *crycry* we poor poor clanners cannot use sub-par STD engines* WTF?

I'm fine with balance as it is, but don't come you clanners and start crying.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grey Death Storm, on 21 January 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

"The Cooling Efficiency Penalty from Side Torso destruction has been increased to 40% (from 20%)."

Your going to cripple every clan pilot who loses a turso even when they have lost half there bloody weapons with 40% heat penalty specailly when the clanners on his last legs fighting for his/her life, you be lucky fire one or two weapons then you shutdown to overheating, PGI are you going out of your way to complete Brick Clan Mechs

Would you rather die? If not, stop whinging...

[Tank]

Championships was a trap, I love this smell.

[Grey Death Storm]

Jay Leon Hart, on 21 January 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

Would you rather die? If not, stop whinging...

Ill stop whining when PGI Stop NERFING!!

[MovinTarget]

Lets farm MWO out to 1980's-era communist russia...

All the mechs will look terrible on both sides.

All the mechs will have the same hitboxes, hardpoints, jj, engines and weaponry.

Everything will be perfectly balanced because it will all be the same on both sides forever.

it will be so great!

/sarcasm

[ingramli]

Grey Death Storm, on 21 January 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

"The Cooling Efficiency Penalty from Side Torso destruction has been increased to 40% (from 20%)."

Your going to cripple every clan pilot who loses a turso even when they have lost half there bloody weapons with 40% heat penalty specailly when the clanners on his last legs fighting for his/her life, you be lucky fire one or two weapons then you shutdown to overheating, PGI are you going out of your way to complete Brick Clan Mechs

Sir, i want to stay alive with my IS mech when the ST is blown, even with 50% heat penalty, i dont want to sit there just to watch those idiots i team with doing all sort of stupid things (a heavy/assault that carry LRM, laser, SRM, and MG), let me have a choice to fit a clanXL in my IS mech, please.

Edited by ingramli, 21 January 2017 - 06:34 AM.

[MovinTarget]

ingramli, on 21 January 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

Sir, i want to stay alive with my IS mech when the ST is blown, even with 50% heat penalty, i dont want to sit there just to watch those idiots i team with doing all sort of stupid things (a heavy/assault that carry LRM, laser, SRM, and MG), let me have a choice to fit a clanXL in my IS mech, please.

Only if in doing so, you lose the armor/structure quirks...

[ingramli]

MovinTarget, on 21 January 2017 - 06:46 AM, said:

Only if in doing so, you lose the armor/structure quirks...

Fair enough, even then if i still have some guns, i can still kick some ***!

[MovinTarget]

ingramli, on 21 January 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

Fair enough, even then if i still have some guns, i can still kick some ***!

Ha! You fell for my communist ploy! Long live mother russia where all mechs equal and same!

[Wintersdark]

Duke Nedo, on 21 January 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

With enough ST structure you don't die on gauss explosion in the ST.

Sure. But 6 pts isn't some magical amount. You've now got 36 instead of 42. Gauss does 20 damage.

It's a loss for sure, but it doesn't suddenly make the build unworkable.

[Gas Guzzler]

ebolachan, on 20 January 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

ill be brutally honest here. Im finished spending money here.
rebalance the dd tonnage and stop screwing up clan mechs.
Im not going IS so stop screwing loyalists over. or find some other sucker to buy mechpacks.

Night Gyr/Timber still best Heavies. KDK still best assault. HBK-IIC still best medium, ACH still one if the best lights. Clan mechs are far from screwed up.

[Ghost0r]

Summoner nerf. PGI plz.

[MuffledOrk]

Remove pinpoint accuracy on weapons and that'll improve TTK and help IS XL's as you cant just unload everything into a side torso and guarantee it'll all hit there. Pinpoint accuracy has been this games problem from the get go.

Before anyone says that'll remove the skill from the game pointing and pressing a button to fire everything isn't skill.

[C E Dwyer]

I'm going to relate a little story.

I once had a boss, because she was someones pet project she got everything she wanted from upstairs, now in her ambition to climb to the top of the monkey tree, she demanded, asked, sucked up, to become head of a front line unit, which she duly received.

Now she came in like a dose of salts, had no clue how anything worked, didn't know what was involved, but she loved her spread sheets and what the Statistic's told her.

Anyone, that tried to explain to her that front line doesn't work exactly how the graphs say it should, that it's unrealistic, and in the end causes the wrong choices to be made, it's only a guide line, and has very little correlation to the reality, were considered trouble makers obstructing the business, i.e her rise to the boardroom, and were removed or transferred ( I happen to be the only survivor ).

Needless to say, Moral crashed, the units performance crashed, and now slightly more than a year on she has no job. Sanity has resumed, people with practical experience are being listened to, and the unit is now rapidly moving back to its correct place as the best performer in its area.

I really hope I don't have to explain why I wrote this story, as I'm really hoping people understand my little Parable and take note of it.

[SuperFunkTron]

Eternal Underdog, on 21 January 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

IS XL should survive side torso loss but have a stiffer penalty than a Clan XL that looses a side torso. I don't care what they say. A penalty, even a harsh one is not comparable to dying outright when loosing a ST.

More offensive power with XL? Sure, but what does it help if you can never bring it to bear? In a light or even a medium you can literally be one shotted.

I think the real issue here is that all the added structure and armor buffs to IS make it feel like those mechs are incredibly tanky. The only way IS XL torso loss survival could be remotely fair is if all those buffs were removed as well. The long laser burns on clan mechs would also need to come under scrutiny at that point as well. Definitely not equal times, but a slight reduction. Those burn times are part of the balance that force clan mechs to stay exposed, and thus vulnerable, for much longer.

MuffledOrk, on 21 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Remove pinpoint accuracy on weapons and that'll improve TTK and help IS XL's as you cant just unload everything into a side torso and guarantee it'll all hit there. Pinpoint accuracy has been this games problem from the get go.

Before anyone says that'll remove the skill from the game pointing and pressing a button to fire everything isn't skill.

A misunderstanding I had when I first started playing a few years back was that torso weapons essentially shot straight ahead and only arm mounted weapons had the ability to converge. It would be very interesting to see how that that system would work out in reality but I imagine that the extra targeting reticles could clutter the screen. Despite the clutter, it would make hitting specific parts of target much trickier (increasing damage spread) and give incentive to load weapons in the arms to have some amount of convergence/pinpoint accuracy available.

[MovinTarget]

MuffledOrk, on 21 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Remove pinpoint accuracy on weapons and that'll improve TTK and help IS XL's as you cant just unload everything into a side torso and guarantee it'll all hit there. Pinpoint accuracy has been this games problem from the get go.

Before anyone says that'll remove the skill from the game pointing and pressing a button to fire everything isn't skill.

Seriously, weapons on your torsi and head can magically converge on a target regardless of the distance change... i get arm + torso convergence, but even if all the non-arm weapons are fully pivotable to pinpoint point blank out to 1k meters, they are not going to do it instaneously other than perhaps lasers using lens/mirrors to bend light/aim (still a stretch).

You want to lower TTK, consider slowing torsi/head convergence. Suddenly the meta won't revolve around mechs that pack weapons in torsos-only. Poptarys can still work but will not be as accurate. Armweapons will be more viable, despite the risk since your "quick" pinpoint dmg will have to come from there...

Maybe holes in the idea, but just a thought...

Cathy, on 21 January 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

I'm going to relate a little story.

I once had a boss, because she was someones pet project she got everything she wanted from upstairs, now in her ambition to climb to the top of the monkey tree, she demanded, asked, sucked up, to become head of a front line unit, which she duly received.

Now she came in like a dose of salts, had no clue how anything worked, didn't know what was involved, but she loved her spread sheets and what the Statistic's told her.

Anyone, that tried to explain to her that front line doesn't work exactly how the graphs say it should, that it's unrealistic, and in the end causes the wrong choices to be made, it's only a guide line, and has very little correlation to the reality, were considered trouble makers obstructing the business, i.e her rise to the boardroom, and were removed or transferred ( I happen to be the only survivor ).

Needless to say, Moral crashed, the units performance crashed, and now slightly more than a year on she has no job. Sanity has resumed, people with practical experience are being listened to, and the unit is now rapidly moving back to its correct place as the best performer in its area.

I really hope I don't have to explain why I wrote this story, as I'm really hoping people understand my little Parable and take note of it.

I hope its just coincidence this sounds familiar...

[Duke Nedo]

Wintersdark, on 21 January 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Sure. But 6 pts isn't some magical amount. You've now got 36 instead of 42. Gauss does 20 damage.

It's a loss for sure, but it doesn't suddenly make the build unworkable.

My experience is that it is currently a bit past the tipping point where you start to die from ST destruction on gauss explosion. Before the WHM was nerfed from 16 to 13 ST structure in June you would nearly always survive losing a gauss, after the nerf you'd instapop more often than not. Remove 6 more points and I expect any gauss build to be completely dead on an XL WHM.

I can live with the laser vomit, uac/ac and uac/ppc builds on the 6D and BW losing some ST structure, but the 6R really needs what it has. It would actually need one or two points more of ST structure to really compete with the 2x gauss+1x PPC NGRs...

[MovinTarget]

SuperFunkTron, on 21 January 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

I think the real issue here is that all the added structure and armor buffs to IS make it feel like those mechs are incredibly tanky. The only way IS XL torso loss survival could be remotely fair is if all those buffs were removed as well. The long laser burns on clan mechs would also need to come under scrutiny at that point as well. Definitely not equal times, but a slight reduction. Those burn times are part of the balance that force clan mechs to stay exposed, and thus vulnerable, for much longer.



A misunderstanding I had when I first started playing a few years back was that torso weapons essentially shot straight ahead and only arm mounted weapons had the ability to converge. It would be very interesting to see how that that system would work out in reality but I imagine that the extra targeting reticles could clutter the screen. Despite the clutter, it would make hitting specific parts of target much trickier (increasing damage spread) and give incentive to load weapons in the arms to have some amount of convergence/pinpoint accuracy available.

I wasn't around for it but I seem to remember peeps saying they tried the non-aiming torso weapons idea in game and people hated it... which is why i am just suggesting a convergence lag... just enouph that pinpoint poking and poptarting would be difficult.

[SuperFunkTron]

MovinTarget, on 21 January 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I wasn't around for it but I seem to remember peeps saying they tried the non-aiming torso weapons idea in game and people hated it... which is why i am just suggesting a convergence lag... just enouph that pinpoint poking and poptarting would be difficult.

I imagine it would've been pretty frustrating with so many weapons missing, but I'm curious if it was a matter of it being a difficulty that people just need to adjust to or if the system was really that bad. Your idea of slower convergence is a good one, but I'd want the convergence time to be well mapped out or at least have an indicator (even if its a bloom) to let you know how much convergence has been achieved.