253 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 January 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

It is annoying. But sadly, that's also the worl of PvP play, mostly.constant balance shifting. Most just do it better than PGI. Hell. A Blind Chimp could use the Dartboard of Destiny better than PGI.

you ever play SCII back when? nobody knew balance was a thing, you just went Zerg

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 20 January 2017 - 02:51 PM.

[Erik Krieger]

Bombast, on 20 January 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

If the only way you can have fun is to skim the best of the best and sit atop the OP and game breaking, then expect to have to tap dance to another stage every once in a while.

Hi Bombast,

I like to play underpowered mechs too. It's a challange I appreciate. So even for this reason it's a mistake to try to equalise everything. IMO... and it's indeed the only game i play since a year now...

hf gl

[Quicksilver Aberration]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 January 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

must be nice stacking all that laser on their heavy's and assaults, and firing without a second thought. IS payers are just spoiled.

No, Clan players are, they just are too ignorant to realize it right now because they are too often loading up worthless LRMs on their mechs and expecting awesome stuff to happen.



That said, it seems Clan Wolf and Davion players will always complain about how unfair things are regardless of which tech base has the best stuff at the moment. Probably that hero complex both factions seem to attract considering their status in BT.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 20 January 2017 - 02:53 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 January 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

must be nice stacking all that laser on their heavy's and assaults, and firing without a second thought. IS payers are just spoiled.

Yeah its crazy how less damage and less range would take less heat and have less duration, especially given the slower speed and less room for DHS.

[Bishop Steiner]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 January 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

must be nice stacking all that laser on their heavy's and assaults, and firing without a second thought. IS payers are just spoiled.

says the guys with immortal XLs, 2 crit DHS, half crit Endo, Half Crit actually USEFUL Ferro, free CASE in all locations, 3 ton Lighter Guass Rifles, 1 ton Lighter ERPPC, halfweight Missile Racks, FulL Streak options for smacking around Lights, customizable hardpoints, etc.

Yes Bloody, do tell us about spoiled.

[Carl Vickers]

This is specially for you BW.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 January 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

says the guys with immortal XLs, 2 crit DHS, half crit Endo, Half Crit actually USEFUL Ferro, free CASE in all locations, 3 ton Lighter Guass Rifles, 1 ton Lighter ERPPC, halfweight Missile Racks, FulL Streak options for smacking around Lights, customizable hardpoints, etc.

Yes Bloody, do tell us about spoiled.

yea, I guess you guys got a point.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 20 January 2017 - 02:59 PM.

[Nameless King]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 January 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

So what is out of curiosity?

I will still go with the Marauder over the Warhammer's.

[Garfuncle]

Nerf Black Knight, people go Warhammer. Nerf Warhammer, people will go Grasshopper...

See a pattern here? Soon IS won't have any heavies worth a damn if this keeps up.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

King Alen, on 20 January 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

I will still go with the Marauder over the Warhammer's.

Ehh, I guess you could've said a worse mech, but they certainly never topped the IS heavies (though the 3R or 5M may be the top now, we shall see how they stack up against the Grasshoppers).

Garfuncle, on 20 January 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

Nerf Black Knight, people go Warhammer. Nerf Warhammer, people will go Grasshopper...

See a pattern here? Soon IS won't have any heavies worth a damn if this keeps up.

Well, the question is what mech will they use for mixed ballistics and energy like the WHM-6R used to do, my guess is Marauder or the Onion.

[Warglbargl]

Warhammer nerfed.

Would you like to buy a Roughneck?

[Bradigus]

Summoners got hit pretty hard with the shift of the -10% energy heat generation quirk to the worthless crap stain side torsos.

It was more or less the lynch pin that enabled the 2x LPL & 4x ERML or Gauss & 5x ERML builds to stand up against other laser vomit mechs. Since the Summoner lacks the tonnage to actually put on enough heatsinks to manage such builds, I believe it's going to have a rather tough time unless reconfigured to the now staple nipplemoner loadout. PGI's way of "encouraging build diversity," I guess?

That laser vomit build that finally became available on the Summoner with the loyalty pods is going to go from generating 39,6 heat per strike back to the default 44. It may not seem that much, but on the total 18-19 DHS that you can fit onto that build, it's going to sting a lot.

Also keep in mind this fundamental change: "OmniPods: Fixed an issue where bonuses received from Quirks tied to OmniPods would remain in effect after a destruction of that OmniPod."

This means that a LOT of those barely performing clan mechs are now going to suffer really, really badly when they lose those components. IS mechs do not lose their quirks when they lose components. Already poorly performing mechs like Linebackers, Summoners, Ice Ferrets, Adders and Kitfoxes and the like will be losing the critical pieces of the puzzle that may enable their builds and make them actual choices for the field. Top mechs like Night Gyrs, Timber Wolves, Kodiak 3's and Ebon Jaguars will become even more prevalent in clans again as they don't really have quirks to begin with. Guess this is another case of "encouraging diversity."

Edited by Bradigus, 20 January 2017 - 03:37 PM.

[oldradagast]

NobleSavage, on 20 January 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

And why in the world have all Mechs in one weight class to be "equal" in performance??? I don't get it... Differences these days seeming all to be "evil" and "discriminatory"... but they are often just facts and they are the salt in life... i don't want "mech correctness" in this game... leave me alone with that!

Oh, please - nothing like shoving backward politics into a post about gaming, Look, it's a game and players are presented with a bunch of choices of mechs to buy and play. While there's no way to make everything perfectly balanced (unless everything is the same), simply giving up and leaving utter trash (or blatantly overpowered) mechs in the game is a bad idea.

Yes, yes - its lots of fun for the players who do their research beforehand and only buy the meta-mechs so they can stomp "stupid noobs" who bought a trash-tier mech, but what exactly does that accomplish other than inflate already overblown egos and tick off new players? It's a game, not a career choice. I'm dang tired of listening to nutty desires to make games as unforgiving as real-life. Picked the wrong college major - "haha, sucks to be you!" Picked the wrong mech? "Haha, sucks to be you!"

Games are meant to be fun, and balance is part of that fun. While I think PGI overdid it with nerfs to the Warhammer and Summoner, I'd rather try to balance the game than give up because "life sucks, and so should MWO."

Edited by oldradagast, 20 January 2017 - 03:22 PM.

[MacClearly]

I am just hopeful that perhaps the Clan XL nerf will maybe help offset the nerf to the Wammy. It has been the only real solid choice to run in FW against Clans, especially before the tonnage increase.

It seems though that PGI has a hard time differentiating between "only viable option" and "overperforming".

Guess I will start mastering Grasshoppers as I have had them for a bit but haven't really used them.

[L1f3H4ck]

Well, it currently is the best IS 70t mech, and you do see a lot more Warhammers in dropdecks than Phracts and Archers. Comparing it to a Clan heavy makes little sense, especially to ones 5t heavier. It's not the biggest nerf, and I'll wait and see what it does to performance. As for Clan vs. IS balance, the tech upgrade will benefit IS more than it will Clans, another thing where I'll just wait and see. I'm pretty sure a dual UAC10 Warhammer will be brutal, with or without structure nerfs.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 January 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

As the title says, why exactly were Warhammers nerf instead of, you know, buffing IS mechs? Between the Summoner, Night Gyr, and Timber Wolf the Clans have the heavy class pretty much dominated and you nerfed the single IS heavy that was even remotely competitive with them? lolwut.

Sorry, but if you think the cooling on side torso loss will somehow change the need for that you are woefully naive PGI.

All I could do when I saw that note was laugh.

New balance guy, as naive as the old balance guy...

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

All I could do when I saw that note was laugh.

New balance guy, as naive as the old balance guy...

Still, I am curious as to how the "data" is showing that the Warhammer is outperforming the Timber Wolf and Night Gyr.

[RestosIII]

Bradigus, on 20 January 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Also keep in mind this fundamental change: "OmniPods: Fixed an issue where bonuses received from Quirks tied to OmniPods would remain in effect after a destruction of that OmniPod."

I'm going to "love" losing PPC quirks on my Warhawks and Adders when I lost one side of my mech.

[TercieI]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 January 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

Still, I am curious as to how the "data" is showing that the Warhammer is outperforming the Timber Wolf and Night Gyr.

Potatoes. Potatoes everywhere.

I have no idea but I suspect those idiots in the LRM80 NTGs are to blame somehow.

[SoloidSnake]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 January 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

Still, I am curious as to how the "data" is showing that the Warhammer is outperforming the Timber Wolf and Night Gyr.

Perhaps it's because the Warhammer is more widely used by the Inner Sphere than any other IS Heavy in comparison. While the TBR, NTG, SMN, MDD, and EBJ are all widely used. Not equally, but less skewed than the IS Heavies.

PGI thinks that overused Mechs = overpowered Mechs.