36 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

The first in a series of 8 posts I will be making regarding hardpoint inflation.


WOLFHOUNDS:

Spoiler

WLF-1
Current:
1E Right Arm, 1E Left Torso, 1E Right Torso, 2E Center Torso

Proposed:
3E Right Arm, 1E Left Torso, 1E Right Torso, 2E Center Torso

WLF-1A
Current:
1E Right Arm, 2E Right Torso, 2E Left Torso, 1ECenter Torso

Proposed:
1E Right Arm, 2E Right Torso, 2E Left Torso, 2E Center Torso

WLF-1B
Current:
1E Right Arm, 1E Right Torso, 1E Left Torso, 2E Center Torso

Proposed:
2E Right Arm, 1E Right Torso, 1E Left Torso, 2E Center Torso

WLF-2
Current:
2E Right Arm, 1E Right Torso, 1E Left Torso, 2E Center Torso

Proposed: 2E Right Arm, 2E Right Torso, 1E Left Torso, 2E Center Torso

RAVENS:

Spoiler

RVN-H
Current:
2B Right Arm, 2B Left Arm, 1M Right Torso, 1M Left Torso

Proposed (Dream Version):
3B Right Arm, 3B Left Arm (oh noes 6mgs what have I dooonnneeeee), 2M Right Torso, 2M Left Torso
Proposed (Realistic Version):
2B Right Arm, 2B Left Arm, 2M Right Torso, 2M Left Torso


RVN-4X
Current:
2E Right Arm, 1M Right Torso, 2B Left Arm

Proposed: 2E Right Arm, 2M Right Torso, 2B Left Arm

RVN-3L
Unchanged

RVN-2X
Current:
2E Right Arm, 1M Right Torso, 2E Left Torso

Proposed:
2E Right Arm, 2M Right Torso, 3E Left Torso

LOCUSTS:

Spoiler

LCT-1E
Unchanged

LCT-1M
Unchanged

LCT-3S
Unchanged

LCT-1V
Current:
2B Right Arm, 2B Left Arm, 1E CT

Proposed:
3B Right Arm, 3B Left Arm, 1E CT

LCT-3M
Unchanged/maybe add another E hardpoint to the CT. Dunno on this one.

LCT-3V
Current:
1B Right Arm, 1B Left Arm, 2E Center Torso

Proposed:
2B Right Arm, 2B Left Arm, 2E Center Torso

LCT-PB
Unchanged. There's no way with slot imitations you could make use of any more hardpoints anyway.

PANTHERS

Spoiler

PNT-10K
Rather than give this variant more hardpoints, I would rather see it receive better quirks across the board. 2E is plenty for PPC touting and 2M in the CT is not exactly possible to inflate-- I am purposely avoiding adding hardpoints to other components if one does not exist there already as well.

PNT-10P
Gosh heckie this thing sucks-- I have no idea

PNT-8Z
Current:
3E Right Arm, 2M Center Torso

Proposed:
5E Right Arm (this would look hilarious and would need an armor boost, though), 2M Center Torso

PNT-9R
Current:
4E Right Arm, 1M Center Torso

Proposed:
4E Right Arm, 2M Center Torso. Give it better energy quirks than the 8Z.

JENNERS:
They don't need hardpoint inflation, they need to be smaller and have better quirks! JR7-K could use an extra energy hardpoint on one of its arms, though, giving it 5 energy and 1 missile. Not optimal but it's better than 4 energy and 1 missile!

FIRESTARTERS:
Quirk them harder than the wolfhound, damnit. They absolutely need it more than they need new hardpoints.

URBANMECHS!!!

Spoiler

UM-R60
Current:
4B Right Arm, 2E Left Arm

Proposed:
4B Right Arm, 4E Left Arm

UM-R60L
Current:
2B Right Arm, 4E Left Arm

Proposed:
2B Right Arm, 6E Left Arm

UM-63
Current:
3B Right Arm, 2E Left Arm, 1E Left Torso

Proposed:
3B Right Arm, 2E Left Arm, 2E Left Torso

SPIDERS:

Spoiler

SDR-5D
Current:
2E Right Arm, 1E Center Torso, 1 ECM Left Torso

Proposed:
2E Right Arm, 2E Center Torso, 1 ECM Left Torso

SDR-5K
Current:
2B Right Arm, 2B Left Arm, 1E Center Torso

Proposed:
3B Right Arm, 3B Left Arm, 1E Center Torso
OR
2B Right Arm, 2B Left Arm, 2E Center Torso

SDR-5V
I'm not touching this one because as stated, I'm not adding new hardpoints to empty places. But man, does it suck right now.

SDR-ANANSI
Current:
1E 1B Right Arm, 1E 1B Left Arm, 1M Center Torso

Proposed:
2E 1B Right Arm, 2E 1B Left Arm, 2M Center Torso

And last, but not least!

COMMANDOS:

Spoiler

COM-1B
Current:
2E Right Arm, 1E Left Arm, 1M Center Torso

Proposed:
2E Right Arm, 2E Left Arm, 2M Center Torso

COM-1D
Current:
2E Right Arm, 2M Center Torso

Proposed:
4E Right Arm, 2M CT

COM-2D
Current:
2M Right Arm, 1M Center Torso, 1E Left Arm, 1 ECM Left Torso

Proposed:
2M Right Arm, 1M Center Torso, 2E Left Arm, 1 ECM Left Torso

COM-3A
Current:
1E 1M Right Arm, 1E Left Arm, 1M Center Torso

Proposed:
2E 1M Right Arm, 2E Left Arm, 1M Center Torso

DEATH'S STICK KNELL
Current:
2E Right Arm, 2E Left Arm

Proposed:
3E Right Arm, 3E Left Arm

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 22 January 2017 - 06:48 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Probably a good idea to write "1E" instead of "1 Energy". You may also want to consider "LT" instead of "Left Torso". The current format is a bit of a pain when you're skimming through the numbers.

[Snazzy Dragon]

oh lord the locust has so many variants pls no

[Y E O N N E]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 January 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

oh lord the locust has so many variants pls no

And only two see much usage. =/

Actually, I would love to be able to run 8xSL on my LCT-1E. Or 6xSL + 1x MPL on my 3M. Or 6xMG + 1xML on my 1V. Or 4xMG + 2xML on my 3V.

3S and 1M can't be inflated.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Tristan Winter, on 22 January 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

Probably a good idea to write "1E" instead of "1 Energy". You may also want to consider "LT" instead of "Left Torso". The current format is a bit of a pain when you're skimming through the numbers.

Working on it. It's a matter of everything being underliend in red in the formatting and becoming an absolute pain to read. It will be cleaned up.

[Tristan Winter]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 January 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

RVN-4X
Proposed: 2 Ballistic Left Arm

[Deathlike]

The "claim to fame" with Wolfhounds is having a lot more torso mounts than the Firestarter. In fact, many builds attempted to use STD engines (yes, I'm serious) while using the IS small laser (lol why, I dunno) to make up for that tonnage.

After the rescaling, having a medium-sized mech does not help whatsoever.

In the case of the Raven, I kinda assumed JJs was that "extra hardpoint" when they did all the hardpoints on it (it was one of the early few mechs in MWO's lifetime) and that's why it's gimped. The 2X used to be relevant when they (over)quirked it a bit to make up for being worse than a Jenner.

Also, lol no @ the Huggin changes.


I'm not trying to downplay some of those suggestions, but hardpoints are not always the problem with Lights (unless you're the Spider-5V or Panther-10P). It's really the upscaling and durability that is the issue (not that PGI notices or anything).

[Y E O N N E]

I dunno, I'd like my Huginn with 4xSRM2 + 6x MG...or even just the 4xMG we already have.

[Tristan Winter]

It's also pretty hard to get a sense of how good the Firestarter and Wolfhound would be until PGI makes IS SLs and SPLs as good as the Clan ones.

Other than the LCT-1E, I hardly ever see IS mechs use SPLs. But you see CSPLs used by lights, mediums, heavies and assaults.

[Y E O N N E]

Tristan Winter, on 22 January 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

It's also pretty hard to get a sense of how good the Firestarter and Wolfhound would be until PGI makes IS SLs and SPLs MLs as good as the Clan ones SPL and ERSL

.

FTFY

[Snazzy Dragon]

Deathlike, on 22 January 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

Also, lol no @ the Huggin changes.

They're just huge targets and don't have favorable geometry for the brawling role, IMO. And if someone does make use of ALL the hardpoints it's not going to be too terribly fast for a raven. But 4B and 4M might be more reasonable for the chassis.

[Deathlike]

Tristan Winter, on 22 January 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

It's also pretty hard to get a sense of how good the Firestarter and Wolfhound would be until PGI makes IS SLs and SPLs as good as the Clan ones.

Other than the LCT-1E, I hardly ever see IS mechs use SPLs. But you see CSPLs used by lights, mediums, heavies and assaults.

Maybe someday the IS SL+SPL gets buffed... someday.


The thing about the IS SPL is that it still suffers from range and the most common IS Light weapon is the IS Med (not that the IS Med needs nerfing - if anything, it needs a slight buff in heat reduction). The only time to see the IS SPL is the 8-SPL Firestarter (which is still not a thing because of the rescaling). The IS SL has always been in a nebulous place (it may need a duration reduction at least with a heat reduction)... but even then.. it's just not really that good (maybe it needs a range buff to boot).

Our balance overlord is surely getting ontop of these things... amirite?

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 22 January 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Maybe someday the IS SL+SPL gets buffed... someday.


The thing about the IS SPL is that it still suffers from range and the most common IS Light weapon is the IS Med (not that the IS Med needs nerfing - if anything, it needs a slight buff in heat reduction). The only time to see the IS SPL is the 8-SPL Firestarter (which is still not a thing because of the rescaling). The IS SL has always been in a nebulous place (it may need a duration reduction at least with a heat reduction)... but even then.. it's just not really that good (maybe it needs a range buff to boot).

Our balance overlord is surely getting ontop of these things... amirite?

I have discovered that even the 8xSPL FS9 is not the best. Using 6xSL+2xMPL you get more range (the SLs go out to cSPL range) and you save one ton in exchange for two points of damage and a little bit more heat (use that ton for a DHS). The duration increase is negligible.

The IS SL, SPL, and ML all need shorter cool-downs. Heat reduction is needed for the ML, not so sure about the smaller ones. ML needs a small duration reduction, too. The SL should have the most stupendous DPS of the bunch, with the SPL being a bit more front-loaded and requiring less raw DPS as a result. I don't necessarily think range needs to be increased.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 January 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

I have discovered that even the 8xSPL FS9 is not the best. Using 6xSL+2xMPL you get more range (the SLs go out to cSPL range) and you save one ton in exchange for two points of damage and a little bit more heat (use that ton for a DHS). The duration increase is negligible.

The IS SL, SPL, and ML all need shorter cool-downs. Heat reduction is needed for the ML, not so sure about the smaller ones. ML needs a small duration reduction, too. The SL should have the most stupendous DPS of the bunch, with the SPL being a bit more front-loaded and requiring less raw DPS as a result. I don't necessarily think range needs to be increased.

Well, either way, buffs are needed there.

The specifics is one thing... the lack of action because they don't understand their own game is another.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Whelp. Going to clean up the formatting a little but beyond that I am finished.

IS mediums are up next!

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 22 January 2017 - 07:01 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Y u no 8xE for Lolcust 1E? D:

Not like you can actually run 8xMedLas, that's super squishy. They'd be useful purely so Small Las would be a valid option.

[cazidin]

We can't have a 6 MG Spider! Won't somebody think of the Atlas backs!

[Snazzy Dragon]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 January 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

Y u no 8xE for Lolcust 1E? D:

Not like you can actually run 8xMedLas, that's super squishy. They'd be useful purely so Small Las would be a valid option.

I don't want to push it too hard-- the hate for the locust is strong enough. Lord forbid the 8 small laser locust knife fighter kill a cheetah pilot.

[Y E O N N E]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 January 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

I don't want to push it too hard-- the hate for the locust is strong enough. Lord forbid the 8 small laser locust knife fighter kill a cheetah pilot.

8x SL == 6x SPL

Also, I'm thinking of the Lolcust IIC. I don't want the IS Lolcust to be replaced by the Clan one.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 January 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

8x SL == 6x SPL

Also, I'm thinking of the Lolcust IIC. I don't want the IS Lolcust to be replaced by the Clan one.

Well, that's likely to happen regardless


Unless GodQuirks come into play, that is
They don't have GodQuirks right now
It's also a 25 tonner, but those aren't incredibly larger