43 replies to this topic

[a gaijin]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

Depends how old you are. Video game rights last for, what, 75 years? Maybe you'll live long enough for it to become freemium and someone to pick it up and modernize it.

Cool! I just to wait until I'm 100 years old

That works out, since I'd already been planning to live to 120 anyhow

Quote

While it would be nice, I'd advice avoiding that kind of thinking for the time being. Hype is poison, and raising your hopes can ruin the game for you if it comes out and is decent but not great.

You don't have to warn me about riding any hype trains. The lesson from my last hype train ride still burns so painfully...

[Bombast]

Star Commander Horse, on 23 January 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

You don't have to warn me about riding any hype trains. The lesson from my last hype train ride still burns so painfully...

Spoiler

Oh god, Fallout 4. I think that may be the most disappointing game I've ever played. It wasn't even bad enough to get a good, enjoyable rage out of - It was the video game equivalent of realizing you ran out of butter so you'll have to substitute in spreadable margarine.

Edited by Bombast, 23 January 2017 - 03:41 PM.

[1453 R]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

Oh god, Fallout 4. I think that may be the most disappointing game I've ever played. It wasn't even bad enough to get a good, enjoyable rage out of - It was the video game equivalent of realizing you ran out of butter so you'll have to substitute in spreadable margarine.

I don't even know why New Vegas was so much better than FO4 was...I just know I miss New Vegas every time I go back to try and make a stab at FO4.

[Bombast]

1453 R, on 23 January 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

I don't even know why New Vegas was so much better than FO4 was...I just know I miss New Vegas every time I go back to try and make a stab at FO4.

I know exactly why it was better.

1. While the game generally ended in the same spot, your actions affected the world, and who you chose to help and how you did so mattered.
2. Skill/perk choice mattered, gating you from certain things and allowing others.
3. Actual dialogue trees
4. Higher map feature density
5. More likable characters
6. Factions matter
7. No town management
8. No radial mission spam
9. More varied mission types beyond 'Go here, murder everything, come back'
10. Interesting villains
11. Story twists weren't telegraphed 10 hours before they were to be actually revealed
12. Wild West perk is awesome
13. Willingness to step away from the normal and do the weird for a change of pace (See Wild West Perk)

I could go one for days.

Edited by Bombast, 23 January 2017 - 04:07 PM.

[RestosIII]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

I know exactly why it was better.

1. While the game generally ended in the same spot, your actions affected the world, and who you chose to help and how you did so mattered.
2. Skill/perk choice mattered, gating you from certain things and allowing others.
3. Actual dialogue trees
4. Higher map feature density
5. More likable characters
6. Factions matter
7. No town management
8. No radial mission spam
9. More varied mission types beyond 'Go here, murder everything, come back'
10. Interesting villains
11. Story twists weren't telegraphed 10 hours before they were to be actually revealed
12. Wild West perk is awesome
13. Willingness to step away from the normal and do the weird for a change of pace (See Wild West Perk)

I could go one for days.

Basically the only things that Fallout 4 did that I really enjoyed compared to NV was making Power Armor more interesting, and making people look less terrible. That's... about it. If only I'd somehow forgotten how to get mods to work on New Vegas, otherwise I'd go back and play it for probably the 20th time.

[1453 R]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

[snip]

A lot of that, I think, and a lot of other stuff to boot. I'unno. I suppose it mostly just felt like FO4 was a sandbox, but New Vegas was a world. One of them is there for me to **** around in and do dumb stuff, one of them is there for me to make my mark on.

And to think people constantly crapped on New Vegas and figured Bethesda would 'save' the franchise from Obsidian's stink. Lordamighty, give me a new Obsidian Fallout any damn day...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

1. While the game generally ended in the same spot, your actions affected the world, and who you chose to help and how you did so mattered.
3. Actual dialogue trees
6. Factions matter

To me these are the only real important differences. Fallout 4 was much more linear with how it progressed (like how it forced you to be a minuteman). Honestly I liked the addition of building your own town (though I would preferred quality and not quantity here), the borderlands-esque approach to customizing, and the Power Armor play that came with Fallout 4, it just didn't have the more choice oriented stuff that 3 and NV had that made them more interesting.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 January 2017 - 04:13 PM.

[Bombast]

RestosIII, on 23 January 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Basically the only things that Fallout 4 did that I really enjoyed compared to NV was making Power Armor more interesting, and making people look less terrible. That's... about it. If only I'd somehow forgotten how to get mods to work on New Vegas, otherwise I'd go back and play it for probably the 20th time.

I actually disliked the Power Armor. It turned a nice piece of armor you needed to spec for, and only brought when you needed the firepower, into a one trick pony that I didn't even use until the end of the game because the power cells became 'That Item' that every video game has, the one so powerful that you never used it because you never knew when you might need it.

Also because I kept OCDing and hoarding chassis. I think I had 14 full sets of armor and maybe 14 more missing pieces.

1453 R, on 23 January 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

And to think people constantly crapped on New Vegas and figured Bethesda would 'save' the franchise from Obsidian's stink. Lordamighty, give me a new Obsidian Fallout any damn day...

Which is just bull ****, because New Vegas is the best modern Fallout so far. Fallout 3 suffered from an atrocious map and Fallout 4 was just bland garbage. New Vegas was awesome.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 January 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

To me these are the only real important differences. Fallout 4 was much more linear with how it progressed (like how it forced you to be a minuteman).

That too. So linear. And I disliked how you had no say in the conversation - You could say no, say yes say yes sarcastically, or say yes annoyingly.

Great range, really worth the voice work, Bethesda.

[RestosIII]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

I actually disliked the Power Armor. It turned a nice piece of armor you needed to spec for, and only brought when you needed the firepower, into a one trick pony that I didn't even use until the end of the game because the power cells became 'That Item' that every video game has, the one so powerful that you never used it because you never knew when you might need it.

Also because I kept OCDing and hoarding chassis. I think I had 14 full sets of armor and maybe 14 more missing pieces.

I always just spent the points to focus on Power Armor being a thing I was going to use, so I always had plenty of power cells. I just liked the fact that it felt like you were actually in a big, meaty piece of armor instead of the old "Yeah, you're in power armor, so what? You still walk the same and view stuff the same."

[1453 R]

Yaknow, that might be it.

Fallout 4 is a giant collection of game systems hung on a loose framework for you to screw around with. New Vegas is a game. Also whoever decided to remove switchable ammo from Fallout 4 can die in the fires of Tartarus. My kingdom for my old lever-action 20-gauge and its half-dozen mission-specific ammo types...

But yeah. It's like...building a personal hideout is fun, building the ultimate Codsworth is fun, crafting your own personal arsenal is fun (to a point)...but once you're done doing all the fun side things they bolt in there to occupy your time, there wasn't really anything to do with it all except find some random raiders or something to wreck.

God, what a disappointment.

[RestosIII]

1453 R, on 23 January 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

Yaknow, that might be it.

Fallout 4 is a giant collection of game systems hung on a loose framework for you to screw around with. New Vegas is a game. Also whoever decided to remove switchable ammo from Fallout 4 can die in the fires of Tartarus. My kingdom for my old lever-action 20-gauge and its half-dozen mission-specific ammo types...

But yeah. It's like...building a personal hideout is fun, building the ultimate Codsworth is fun, crafting your own personal arsenal is fun (to a point)...but once you're done doing all the fun side things they bolt in there to occupy your time, there wasn't really anything to do with it all except find some random raiders or something to wreck.

God, what a disappointment.

Also, New Vegas had a GMG. You can't beat a GMG.

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 January 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

SNIP

RestosIII, on 23 January 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

SNIP

1453 R, on 23 January 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

SNIP

God damn it.

[Y E O N N E]

1453 R, on 22 January 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

I thought the forum community in general hated Mike Stackpole and exploding 'Mechs? Also if a nuclear reactor goes critical thirty feet away from you, I would in fact throw a fit if it didn't do some severe damage to your own machine. If you're going to do it, do it right.

1. A fusion reactor can't go critical, it just fizzles out when containment is breached. This is even true for BattleTech space-magic.

2. The exploding 'Mechs are just the result of explosive thermal expansion of air. Nothing nuclear about it. In the grand scheme of things, it would be a pretty weak explosion.

[a gaijin]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

Oh god, Fallout 4. I think that may be the most disappointing game I've ever played. It wasn't even bad enough to get a good, enjoyable rage out of - It was the video game equivalent of realizing you ran out of butter so you'll have to substitute in spreadable margarine.

Actually playing Falldown 4 reminded me more of realizing you ran out of butter and having to substitute with duck butter



On what OP said for missing features:

I for one would welcome all those but especially a story/objective-based campaign mode.

• These missions intertwine with Faction Warfare and would effect planet "ownership."
  
• Mission runs one week before proceeding with story progression.
  
• At the end end of the week, Galaxy Map geography changes to reflect FP majority and then the next mission in series released, along with narrative "fluff" and maybe even a short cut scene to add atmosphere. It's kind of like having an event every week.
  
• The missions would be "old school style" as in one (to max of four) player(s) vesus x number of enemies. All enemies in stock mechs while player (lance/star commander only) allowed to configure theirs.
  
• Player able to select difficulty level which affects tonnage restrictions and how much payout is awarded at mission completion. So if 'normal' skill earns 50 faction points for planet ownership, easy earns 25, and hard earns 100.

An example mission: "On planet Colmar our forces are soon heading into the Tourmaline Desert to engage the 13th Wolf Guards; your first mission is to destroy two enemy comms facilities in the Dune Sea, west of our forces, which will disrupt their communications, command, and control."

One pilot using only one mech must meet these Objectives:
+ Destroy HPG Uplink at Nav Point Alpha
+ Destroy Communications Array at Nav Point Beta
Secondary Objectives:
+ Destroy all enemy 'Mechs (estimated there are 3~4 light/mediums present in the area)
Tertiary Objectives:
+ Destroy any targets of opportunity (an unmarked hidden ammo depot in a random spawn point)
Return:
+ Dust-off site, Nav Point Gamma


Also have these questions on 'why isn't this done?'

• When we are in FW lobby waiting to Scout/Invasion drop where does it say what planet we are going to fight on?
  
• After the battle's over, on the Galaxy Map where can I see the status of the planet I just fought on?
  
• Where is the auto-recording of battles with highlights? Hopefully that would be downloadable content.
  
• Where is "Stock Skirmish" as a selectable mode to go along with Escort, Assault, Domination, Skirmish, and Conquest? (during pre-drop lobby you can select any stock variant of the chassis you launched the match search in that you have in your inventory).

Maybe my suggestions don't appeal to all but it would have been cool if this stuff was a part of MWO.
And all the maps made for an "objective-based campaign" could double as additional maps to choose from for Skirmish & Assault

[Mawai]

Johnny Z, on 22 January 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

When will proper DLC that adds real content be available other than mech packs?

Where is 1st person mechbay?

Where is sound update to not be ear splitting and bad sounds?

When is pilot eject animation going to be added?

How long until mechs go critical sometimes on destruction even if no damage is given?

When is tech balance going to be achieved?

When will atmosphere and story and lore be added?

How come no NPC's? Never heard of NPC's? Why doesn't the VIP request help now and then? When will NPC's be added to this game?

Thanks. maybe some other things that should be in game by now can be added by others.

Interesting list. However, as far as I know, the only one that is actually relevant to MWO is "When will tech balance be achieved" and the answer to that is a loaded question but at least not until some time after the new skill tree changes the balance of all mechs.


When will proper DLC that adds real content be available other than mech packs?
- what is "proper DLC"? The only content that MWO can possibly have are maps, game modes and mechs. MWO is a multiplayer online mech shooter, if you want anything else then you are waiting for MW5.

Where is 1st person mechbay?
- MW5 ... that was part of the MW5 trailer and NOT a part of MWO

Where is sound update to not be ear splitting and bad sounds?
- No idea but personally I don't have any issues with the sounds except the exceptionally irritating voices that yell at you at the start and end of a drop ... whoever thought those were a good idea needs to think some more in my opinion

When is pilot eject animation going to be added?
- Never? How about MW5 .. I don't think PGI has ever mentioned it in the context of MWO ... and to be honest ... why would we need or want it?

How long until mechs go critical sometimes on destruction even if no damage is given?
- Never? Mechs never go critical ... stackpoling is a myth that many Battletech folks complain about and which gets explained away with a number of pseudo technical explanations. In any case, not a feature that is worth spending any time on when there are more important things out there.

When is tech balance going to be achieved?
- Yay! A question actually relevant to MWO and since PGI has continually failed to deliver tech balance since the clans were introduced it is not a question that anyone outside PGI has a hope of answering .. though, unfortunately, their track record on making meaningful and understandable balance changes isn't good

When will atmosphere and story and lore be added?
- MW5. The basic design of MWO only allows for atmostphere/story/lore in the community warfare component. I'd love to see some sort of meaningful persistant game play as was originally hyped for FW/CW ... but it hasn't happened yet. However, even then there won't be that much in the way of atmosphere story and lore since the game modes in CW are themselves rinse and repeat ... it just can't have much of a meaningful story line and the requirement for ongoing repeatability and fairness so that either side can win will mean it more likely than not will break lore since although the IS wins in lore ... the clans had the better tech and most of the reasons for why the clans lost can't be reproduced in MWO.

How come no NPC's? Never heard of NPC's? Why doesn't the VIP request help now and then? When will NPC's be added to this game?
- MW5. Lol ... MWO is an online multiplayer game. It is not a PVE game. PGI may add more NPC content as they develop AI for MW5 but that would depend on whether the code is transferable between the two development streams for MWO and MW5.

Thanks. maybe some other things that should be in game by now can be added by others.

----

The things that really should have been in MWO and working by now ... but which are coming slowly ...

- meaningful useful FW/CW with significant persistant meta game elements that encourage play (balance would also be good ... right now the clans are still superior)

- meaningful and useful leaderboards with in-game competitions (more than just the limited number of teams in the world championships and more than just a few sortable stats without reasonable limits to qualify for leaderboards)

- useful, customizable skill trees that allow for skill customization of each variant to make them useful ... presumably this is coming but in my opinion almost 5 years too late since it should have been part of the original release

- Solaris ... allow for varying match sizes ... and solaris tournaments ... though some of this can be achieved through private matches

- better matchmaking and ranking systems ... MWO will always be a failure cascade game where one side can lose quickly if it makes a couple of mistakes but the matchmaking could be better though it is hard to tell if the matchmaker is the problem or the ranking system is the problem (my bet is on the ranking system personally).

- proper balance across weight classes between and within clans and IS ... starting with weapon balance, perhaps using some blanket clan and IS balance provisions and finished off with individual mech balance passes to normalize overall performance more or less across all mechs (this might have been facilitated by developing a mech battle value system to estimate the effectiveness of specific mechs and builds ... and then building a matchmaker to use BV, weight class and pilot skill as the basis for forming a match .. but PGI decided not to go this route).

In my opinion, these are the things that should have actually been in MWO long before now

Edited by Mawai, 23 January 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

1453 R, on 23 January 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

I don't even know why New Vegas was so much better than FO4 was...I just know I miss New Vegas every time I go back to try and make a stab at FO4.

So keep enjoying TTW on new Vegas and hope mw5 doesn't end up like fallout4

[AccessTime]

Honestly just give me things like a Solaris duel mode where you can choose different options, same tonnage class, same mech, or small teams, maybe even spectator betting with C-bills. The stuff that somewhat fits within the lore, but also adds to the game.

[Johnny Z]

Mawai, on 23 January 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Interesting list. However, as far as I know, the only one that is actually relevant to MWO is "When will tech balance be achieved" and the answer to that is a loaded question but at least not until some time after the new skill tree changes the balance of all mechs.


When will proper DLC that adds real content be available other than mech packs?
- what is "proper DLC"? The only content that MWO can possibly have are maps, game modes and mechs. MWO is a multiplayer online mech shooter, if you want anything else then you are waiting for MW5.

Where is 1st person mechbay?
- MW5 ... that was part of the MW5 trailer and NOT a part of MWO

Where is sound update to not be ear splitting and bad sounds?
- No idea but personally I don't have any issues with the sounds except the exceptionally irritating voices that yell at you at the start and end of a drop ... whoever thought those were a good idea needs to think some more in my opinion

When is pilot eject animation going to be added?
- Never? How about MW5 .. I don't think PGI has ever mentioned it in the context of MWO ... and to be honest ... why would we need or want it?

How long until mechs go critical sometimes on destruction even if no damage is given?
- Never? Mechs never go critical ... stackpoling is a myth that many Battletech folks complain about and which gets explained away with a number of pseudo technical explanations. In any case, not a feature that is worth spending any time on when there are more important things out there.

When is tech balance going to be achieved?
- Yay! A question actually relevant to MWO and since PGI has continually failed to deliver tech balance since the clans were introduced it is not a question that anyone outside PGI has a hope of answering .. though, unfortunately, their track record on making meaningful and understandable balance changes isn't good

When will atmosphere and story and lore be added?
- MW5. The basic design of MWO only allows for atmostphere/story/lore in the community warfare component. I'd love to see some sort of meaningful persistant game play as was originally hyped for FW/CW ... but it hasn't happened yet. However, even then there won't be that much in the way of atmosphere story and lore since the game modes in CW are themselves rinse and repeat ... it just can't have much of a meaningful story line and the requirement for ongoing repeatability and fairness so that either side can win will mean it more likely than not will break lore since although the IS wins in lore ... the clans had the better tech and most of the reasons for why the clans lost can't be reproduced in MWO.

How come no NPC's? Never heard of NPC's? Why doesn't the VIP request help now and then? When will NPC's be added to this game?
- MW5. Lol ... MWO is an online multiplayer game. It is not a PVE game. PGI may add more NPC content as they develop AI for MW5 but that would depend on whether the code is transferable between the two development streams for MWO and MW5.

Thanks. maybe some other things that should be in game by now can be added by others.

----

The things that really should have been in MWO and working by now ... but which are coming slowly ...

- meaningful useful FW/CW with significant persistant meta game elements that encourage play (balance would also be good ... right now the clans are still superior)

- meaningful and useful leaderboards with in-game competitions (more than just the limited number of teams in the world championships and more than just a few sortable stats without reasonable limits to qualify for leaderboards)

- useful, customizable skill trees that allow for skill customization of each variant to make them useful ... presumably this is coming but in my opinion almost 5 years too late since it should have been part of the original release

- Solaris ... allow for varying match sizes ... and solaris tournaments ... though some of this can be achieved through private matches

- better matchmaking and ranking systems ... MWO will always be a failure cascade game where one side can lose quickly if it makes a couple of mistakes but the matchmaking could be better though it is hard to tell if the matchmaker is the problem or the ranking system is the problem (my bet is on the ranking system personally).

- proper balance across weight classes between and within clans and IS ... starting with weapon balance, perhaps using some blanket clan and IS balance provisions and finished off with individual mech balance passes to normalize overall performance more or less across all mechs (this might have been facilitated by developing a mech battle value system to estimate the effectiveness of specific mechs and builds ... and then building a matchmaker to use BV, weight class and pilot skill as the basis for forming a match .. but PGI decided not to go this route).

In my opinion, these are the things that should have actually been in MWO long before now

This game wasn't sold as a multi player online shooter. It was sold as MechWarrior Battletech game that's online. It is very dumbed down still. There is no need for it to be.

[Archangel.84]

LOL Stackpoling.

[Jun Watarase]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

I know exactly why it was better.

1. While the game generally ended in the same spot, your actions affected the world, and who you chose to help and how you did so mattered.
2. Skill/perk choice mattered, gating you from certain things and allowing others.
3. Actual dialogue trees
4. Higher map feature density
5. More likable characters
6. Factions matter
7. No town management
8. No radial mission spam
9. More varied mission types beyond 'Go here, murder everything, come back'
10. Interesting villains
11. Story twists weren't telegraphed 10 hours before they were to be actually revealed
12. Wild West perk is awesome
13. Willingness to step away from the normal and do the weird for a change of pace (See Wild West Perk)

I could go one for days.

People usually compare fo3 to new vegas but one thing i will say about new vegas is that...its really bad at making balanced encounters and world building. Most of the new vegas world (in th base game) is empty desert with the occasional one cell shack in the middle of nowhere. Yawn. FO3 had much more interesting areas that were interlinked (see metro system). Exploring the metro was definately more interesting than exploring empty desert with the occasional empty shack filled with low level loot that nobody cares about.

NV encounters were also dissapointing in that they tried to be realistic and made 90% or more of encounters low level raiders, animals, etc. FO3 put you up against much tougher enemies at higher levels. In NV, once you got to level 15 (out of a maximum of 50) you were basically a god. Even deathclaws are no challenge with the right perks since you can just VATs + head shots. Assassination squads are a joke when they literally run up to you to engage in dialogue before starting combat. Even the DLCs werent much better...yea you CAN have level 50 enemies spawn...but due to the way they handle leveled lists, you can also spawn a level 1 version instead of the level 50 version. So there you are, level 50, exploring a DLC, then a level 1 enemy spawns. Total waste of your time.

Even the level 50 versions are no challenge because of vats + headshots. Ulysses boss fight? He literally stands there and lets you get a sneak attack critical with a fatman. Or you can just throw down a dozen plasma mines and he will run into it blindly.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 25 January 2017 - 08:11 AM.