41 replies to this topic

[CK16]

What are you Diamond Shark guys going to do if we get the Mk II in March? Besides throw a big *** party...After the hang over is done then what?

[RestosIII]

CK16, on 23 January 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

What are you Diamond Shark guys going to do if we get the Mk II in March? Besides throw a big *** party...After the hang over is done then what?

... More celebrating? I dunno. Campaign for the Piranha, Kingfisher, and Thresher to get added?

Oh, and the obvious answer of going to go create our own Star League, with hookers and booze.

[Kasumi Sumika]

Also good thing that the Jags will be gone because they got SMOKED after Operation Bulldog.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

RestosIII, on 23 January 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

If you count it as a "shameful" name, you aren't a true CDS member, and have no right to decide what name is "shameful" or not. It's a badge of honor, and shows that CDS isn't opposed to new ideas and stances. That, and it's super embarrassing for Clan Snow Raven.

It is a Mark of Shame and only shows weakness that outsiders can define who you are... Clan Sea Fox is the name that Kerensky gave and who they truly are!!!!!!

[RestosIII]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 23 January 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

It is a Mark of Shame and only shows weakness that outsiders can define who you are... Clan Sea Fox is the name that Kerensky gave and who they truly are!!!!!!

Strict adherence to tradition and shunning all outside influences is the sort of thing CJF and CSJ do, and look at what it got them. Unnecessary bloodshed, unhappy citizens in their non-combat castes, and even full blown annihilation for CSJ. I'm proud of CDS' history, and stand by their more liberal views of Kerensky's vision.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

RestosIII, on 23 January 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

Strict adherence to tradition and shunning all outside influences is the sort of thing CJF and CSJ do, and look at what it got them. Unnecessary bloodshed, unhappy citizens in their non-combat castes, and even full blown annihilation for CSJ. I'm proud of CDS' history, and stand by their more liberal views of Kerensky's vision.

Diamond Shark is part of the Crusader past and something to be ashamed of that Clan Snow Raven was able to make them conform through the application of Force.... Clan Sea Fox is the future and honors the legacy that Nicholas Kerensky left behind, hence why the name Diamond Shark was left behind in the ashes of the past where it belongs.

[RestosIII]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 23 January 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

Diamond Shark is part of the Crusader past and something to be ashamed of that Clan Snow Raven was able to make them conform through the application of Force.... Clan Sea Fox is the future and honors the legacy that Nicholas Kerensky left behind, hence why the name Diamond Shark was left behind in the ashes of the past where it belongs.

The only blight on our history was Ian Hawker. Our days as CDS is something to be proud of, not shunned. And, unless you forgot, the entire Clan voted on the name change, with the only real opposition coming from the needlessly conservative warrior caste members. We're a Warden Clan at heart, and expanding and adapting to change, instead of getting left behind in the past like CSJ did, honors what Kerensky truly wanted. Humanity adapting to what's thrown at it, while attempting to work towards the greater good of all mankind.

Oh, and I just want to say this while we're here, Freebirths SHOULD be allowed to have military positions.

Edited by RestosIII, 23 January 2017 - 11:08 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 23 January 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

Diamond Shark is part of the Crusader past and something to be ashamed of that Clan Snow Raven was able to make them conform through the application of Force.... Clan Sea Fox is the future and honors the legacy that Nicholas Kerensky left behind, hence why the name Diamond Shark was left behind in the ashes of the past where it belongs.

Honoring Nicholas the Butcher? Are you high?

[I_AM_ZUUL]

RestosIII, on 23 January 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

Strict adherence to tradition and shunning all outside influences is the sort of thing CJF and CSJ do, and look at what it got them. Unnecessary bloodshed, unhappy citizens in their non-combat castes, and even full blown annihilation for CSJ. I'm proud of CDS' history, and stand by their more liberal views of Kerensky's vision.

Also... NONE of the Clans adhere to Kereskys true vision of what was supposed to happen, which was that the Clans were supposed to be disbanded and reintergrate with the Inner Sphere. But all the Khans (including Diamond Sharks) choose to throw that letter away and not honor it. Only a secret Sect of the Goliath Scorpions who have a few members in other Clans, actually takes wives and has children... so whatever "liberal views of Kerenskys vision" you think that Diamond shark is honoring is NOTHING to what Kerensky actually wanted.

[Battlemaster56]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Honoring Nicholas the Butcher? Are you high?

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Honoring Nicholas the Butcher? Are you high?

Strong Men are a necessity given certain societal conditions... Ceasers, Napoleons, Hitlers, Lenins, Hussiens. Of course they are horrible but that does not mean that the chaos and civil infighting they prevent is not a worse option... Saddam was a horrible person but that does not make Iraq better off without him in power, the same societal forces he was horrible to are in fact worse now that he is no longer there to suppress them.

So calling Nicholas a "Butcher" in light of what was happening and what would have happened without him is disingenuous at best... the Best Possible Result is rarely a reality and we need to settle for the Best Result Possible, even when that is still a bad option.

[Y E O N N E]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 23 January 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Strong Men are a necessity given certain societal conditions... Ceasers, Napoleons, Hitlers, Lenins, Hussiens. Of course they are horrible but that does not mean that the chaos and civil infighting they prevent is not a worse option... Saddam was a horrible person but that does not make Iraq better off without him in power, the same societal forces he was horrible to are in fact worse now that he is no longer there to suppress them.

So calling Nicholas a "Butcher" in light of what was happening and what would have happened without him is disingenuous at best... the Best Possible Result is rarely a reality and we need to settle for the Best Result Possible, even when that is still a bad option.

I'm not talking about what he had to do to straighten out the Pentagon Worlds, I'm talking about what he did to Wolverine after all of that was long since over with in one grand show of vanity.

He is a butcher.

To wit, his own father likely would have executed him had he been around to see what he became.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 23 January 2017 - 11:36 PM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

I'm not talking about what he had to do to straighten out the Pentagon Worlds, I'm talking about what he did to Wolverine after all of that was long since over with in one grand show of vanity.

He is a butcher.

To wit, his own father likely would have executed him had he been around to see what he became.

Again... Necessity! Since we can just forego pretending that the Best Result Possible is something that can ever be achieved, then we are back down to Best Possible result. Not smashing Clan Wolverine would have been the first cracks in the eventual dissolution back into internal infighting making the entire thing a waste of time... so using Clan Wolverine as a scapegoat allowed cementing everyone together against a self professed "outsider." Now it in the end that worked out too well, so when the Clans were supposed to dissolve themselves and reintergrate after having been stable but socially repressed civilization for a long time... all the Khans threw away his letter and refused to do it but that was not his fault, was it?

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 23 January 2017 - 11:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I hope you know that you are the only one on these forums who ever brings up this supposed letter, right? I find that suspicious, especially because even the evidence for its existence that you mentioned last time it was brought up was circumstantial even within the source.

[RestosIII]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

I'm not talking about what he had to do to straighten out the Pentagon Worlds, I'm talking about what he did to Wolverine after all of that was long since over with in one grand show of vanity.

He is a butcher.

To wit, his own father likely would have executed him had he been around to see what he became.

The Clan Wolverine situation is like the firebombing the USA did in WWII. You don't usually talk about it because it brings up the fact that "Sweet Jesus every human is easily capable of evil." And a lot of people will defend it, saying it was "necessary", or "they deserved it", with the only way to make things right being future generations learning from history, and trying to prevent it from ever happening again. If only that was possible with the entire Wolverine situation.

Oh, and ZUUL? If you're such a huge fan of the later eras, you might want to remember that CDS DID start to rejoin the Inner Sphere. A new Star League straight up wasn't possible with the petty squabbles the great houses and other clans had still, but CDS was making an attempt to go back home.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 January 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

I hope you know that you are the only one on these forums who ever brings up this supposed letter, right? I find that suspicious, especially because even the evidence for its existence that you mentioned last time it was brought up was circumstantial even within the source.

I can not help that no one else gets that deep into the Lore... that is not my fault but it is really that important to you I will delve through my sourcebooks to find the book/page reference number. I remember it very clearly cause I used it for a players character in a Reaving War campaign I ran... a guy who hated Clans (a 3025 guy who it took everything I had and getting the other players to get him to set his campaign up to 3053) and built the most obnoxiously un-Clan character he possibly could to be an @sshole since he did not like that I power gamed his campaign higher by teaching everyone how to optimize their character builds. It was funny that I was able to pull that out and with only a little retweaking like making him Clan Goliath Scorpion was able to using that let him have his character with Dependents and everything. Part of what makes my belief in Roll Players always actually knowing more than the Role Players in RPGs since we scour everything trying to find every last bit of stuff to squeeze out while Role Players just skim the Lore.

Update: been through the whole The Wars of Reaving sourcebook, the search continues...

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 24 January 2017 - 01:32 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

I want to know exactly what the letter said. A bunch of "he said, she said" within the story is insufficient.

Until I read Nicholas Kerensky's letter verbatim, I'm not inclined to call him anything other than a butcher.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 24 January 2017 - 12:45 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 January 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

I want to know exactly what the letter said. A bunch of "he said, she said" within the story is insufficient.

Until I read Nicholas Kerensky's letter verbatim, I'm not inclined to call him anything other than a butcher.

well I am trying to find it... be cool if you could read some of the sourcebooks and help break this into smaller chunks, especially since you are the one who wants to know it & I already learned this information years ago. just saying

But Nicholas believing in the SLDF military ideal of Total Warfare means that Sherman should be at least equally reviled to you for his March to the Sea... or the USA nuking Japan (TWICE) to get them to surrender.

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 24 January 2017 - 01:43 AM.

[WolvesX]

Aleksandr Kerensky > Nicolas K.


Nicolas, the guy that went bat **** crazy and ruined it for everyone.

[Vellron2005]

I don't really see why PGI could not shake the factions up, if they are going into the Fedcom war era.. They already did it once, when all the loyalists were "unaligned" and I don't see why we could not simply join new factions..

I don't see a problem with some clans joining IS side, since they could simply split up the factions again, but keep the unified fronts, and clans would still get clan tech, IS would still get IS tech.. Maybe just dropping the FW restrictions on clan Vs. IS mechs..