90 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

WARNING: This is a suggestion purely based on my own preference of 'mech load out and style of play. It by no means takes into consideration anyone else's play preferences, styles, or wishes, AND MAY IN FACT be posted just to spite a certain specific subset who hate/fear/do not understand the gauss rifle.

If you hate/fear/do not understand the gauss rifle, I suggest this post isn't for you, go ahead and find another post to participate in, again this one is not for you.

Suggestion: Add a gauss rifle quirk where if TWO gauss rifles are equipped the range for both gauss rifles is re-extended to its pre-nerf range.

Completely made up 'lore' type reasoning: The gauss rifle is equipped with a unique targeting system that is capable of 'in tandem' target ranging with another gauss rifle, allowing multiple gauss rifles in use to considerably extend the effective range of the weapon.

My experience post patch: Loading dual gauss really isn't worth it since the last, SIGNIFICANT, range nerf. The damage drop off at 2/3'rds it's previous range is extremely limiting for a weapon load out requiring 30 tons for the weapons alone.

Considering all the other extremely limiting, AND UNIQUE, drawbacks of the gauss adding a range nerf on top of everything else is just excessive:

1. Can only fire two gauss at a time, period. No other weapon system has this limitation.
2. Has a .75 charge up cycle that expires and has to be recharged if not fired within the firing window. No other weapon system has this limitation. (also note, if you press a key while you have your gauss charged, it fires, regardless whether or not you want to. Many is the time I've wasted a dual gauss shot because I've launched a UAV while the gauss is charged.)
3. Is explosive, even when not charged, even when there is no ammo to charge the weapon. No other weapon system has this limitation.
4. Clan version is extremely fragile, and has a 100% garuntee of exploding should any of its SIX crit locations be hit.

On only a very few 'mechs are capable of loading dual gauss AND having substantial backup weapons AND being commonly used builds, and most of the more common builds out there are slow enough moving that the extremely slow firing rate/low DPS of the gauss rifle is easily addressed in simply moving TOWARD the dual gauss carrier.

The most prevalent use of gauss is in dual PPC/single gauss, and pop-sniping builds of similar load out, so the intended nerf target is still addressed as range is limited for the much more common single gauss builds, while allowing those wanting to risk another 15 tons and as many as 7 slots to a single weapon will still have some "reward" for the "risk" they're taking.

[Bombast]

I just want to clarify this - You want a pro-boating quirk?

[Dimento Graven]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

I just want to clarify this - You want a pro-boating quirk?

If you consider loading two of ANY weapon as 'boating' then, sure why not.

We have differing definitions of 'boating' though and as such this is not 'pro' boating.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Dimento Graven, on 23 January 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

If you consider loading two of ANY weapon as 'boating' then, sure why not.

We have differing definitions of 'boating' though and as such this is not 'pro' boating.

Boating can be measured by the weapon's weight, so I consider 8ML, 4LL/LPL, and 2 Gauss to all be boats.

A quirk that benefits boating is a terrible idea, boating is already a huge issue and why mixed-hardpoint mechs are still unviable even with massive quirks. If anything, there needs to be a mechanic that either lowers the cooldown of a weapon that's used in small numbers or increases the cooldown for every extra weapon of the same type you have.

[Dimento Graven]

Gentleman Reaper, on 23 January 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Boating can be measured by the weapon's weight, so I consider 8ML, 4LL/LPL, and 2 Gauss to all be boats.

A quirk that benefits boating is a terrible idea, boating is already a huge issue and why mixed-hardpoint mechs are still unviable even with massive quirks. If anything, there needs to be a mechanic that either lowers the cooldown of a weapon that's used in small numbers or increases the cooldown for every extra weapon of the same type you have.

Yeah, our definition of 'boating' definitely differs.

It's not the weight of a weapon system (otherwise by your definition, an HBK sporting ONE gauss is 'boating'), it's the actual number of any particular weapon system beyond 'reasonable' number, for example, loading up more than 3 PPC's, you're a PPC boat. Loading up 3 or more LRM systems, yeah, you're a LRM boat. Loading up 6 lasers and nothing else, yeah, you're a laser boat.

My opinion of your definition is that it's a horribly bad one.

[cazidin]

Gentleman Reaper, on 23 January 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Boating can be measured by the weapon's weight, so I consider 8ML, 4LL/LPL, and 2 Gauss to all be boats.

A quirk that benefits boating is a terrible idea, boating is already a huge issue and why mixed-hardpoint mechs are still unviable even with massive quirks. If anything, there needs to be a mechanic that either lowers the cooldown of a weapon that's used in small numbers or increases the cooldown for every extra weapon of the same type you have.

Hold on. I think I see what he's trying to say here. Implement quirks that encourage boating large weapons over a mix of medium and large. (I.e. 3-4 LPL instead of 2-3 LPL and 4-5 ML) in an effort to shake up the meta and add diversity.

[Dimento Graven]

cazidin, on 23 January 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

Hold on. I think I see what he's trying to say here. Implement quirks that encourage boating large weapons over a mix of medium and large. (I.e. 3-4 LPL instead of 2-3 LPL and 4-5 ML) in an effort to shake up the meta and add diversity.

Yeah, but starting that effort with a flawed definition of 'boating' more or less invalidates any actual argument.

Besides, because he's not in favor of this quirk, then he must hate/fear/not understand gauss, and thus this is not the thread for him.

[cazidin]

Dimento Graven, on 23 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yeah, but starting that effort with a flawed definition of 'boating' more or less invalidates any actual argument.

Besides, because he's not in favor of this quirk, then he must hate/fear/not understand gauss, and thus this is not the thread for him.

Theorycrafting is easy, Dimento. Debating on game forum's is harder.

Alright. How would you encourage players to bring fewer but larger lasers or ballistics instead of the laser or gauss vomit that we have now? Give me quirk examples with percentages, if possible.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think the OP got it backwards.

1 Gauss should have 3x range as before.
2 Gauss should have just 2x range as per limitations of the charging/capacitor system.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Dimento Graven, on 23 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yeah, but starting that effort with a flawed definition of 'boating' more or less invalidates any actual argument.

Besides, because he's not in favor of this quirk, then he must hate/fear/not understand gauss, and thus this is not the thread for him.

You correctly identify my view as an opinion, and then have the nerve to call it flawed... It's not illogical, some people consider 2 Gauss or 2 AC/20 Jagermechs boats, although I would understand why some others wouldn't think the same, but please don't insult someone else's opinion and state your own as being correct, or else people won't take you seriously.

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 23 January 2017 - 11:23 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

cazidin, on 23 January 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

Theorycrafting is easy, Dimento. Debating on game forum's is harder.

Alright. How would you encourage players to bring fewer but larger lasers or ballistics instead of the laser or gauss vomit that we have now? Give me quirk examples with percentages, if possible.

Wow... "gauss vomit"... Wow... Just wow...

Being a bit histrionic there aren't you?

Classifying a weapon system only capable of delivering a maximum 30 points per round every, at best, 5.75 seconds as "vomiting"... WOW.

Declaring a weapon system of 30 tons and upwards of 14 slots having a combined DPS of 5.21 as capable of "vomit".


Even the AC/2 out paces gauss in DPS... Dude, I don't even know how to talk to you.

[Warglbargl]

Gauss range seems fine to me.

I would suggest holding W to improve your personal results.

[Chuck Jager]

From a balance point of view, I do not want mechs with most weight to spare and the most potential to do the greatest damage having an incentive to hide so far away.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Just lol

[Gentleman Reaper]

Dimento Graven, on 23 January 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Wow... "gauss vomit"... Wow... Just wow...

Being a bit histrionic there aren't you?

Classifying a weapon system only capable of delivering a maximum 30 points per round every, at best, 5.75 seconds as "vomiting"... WOW.

Declaring a weapon system of 30 tons and upwards of 14 slots having a combined DPS of 5.21 as capable of "vomit".


Even the AC/2 out paces gauss in DPS... Dude, I don't even know how to talk to you.

And here you further proved that we can't take you seriously...

[Dimento Graven]

Gentleman Reaper, on 23 January 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

You correctly identify my view as an opinion, and then have the nerve to call it flawed... It's not illogical, some people consider 2 Gauss or 2 AC/20 Jagermechs boats, although I would understand why some others wouldn't think the same, but please don't insult someone else's opinion and state your own as being correct, or else people won't take you seriously.

Let me put it this way then:

If its a weapon's weight that determines it's 'boat' classification, then ANY 'mech carrying a gauss is a gauss boat because the gauss rifle is currently the HEAVIEST weapon in the game, and apparently the only way to NOT be a 'gauss boat' is to load up 16+ tons of other weapons systems?

Gentleman Reaper, on 23 January 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

And here you further proved that we can't take you seriously...

Why, exactly? What is incorrect in that post you can't take seriously?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 23 January 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Even the AC/2 out paces gauss in DPS... Dude, I don't even know how to talk to you.

Well I would hope the AC2 outpaces the Gauss in DPS given it generates more heat and the Gauss does 7.5x more damage per shot.

[Bombast]

Dimento Graven, on 23 January 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Yeah, our definition of 'boating' definitely differs.

It's not the weight of a weapon system (otherwise by your definition, an HBK sporting ONE gauss is 'boating'), it's the actual number of any particular weapon system beyond 'reasonable' number, for example, loading up more than 3 PPC's, you're a PPC boat. Loading up 3 or more LRM systems, yeah, you're a LRM boat. Loading up 6 lasers and nothing else, yeah, you're a laser boat.

My opinion of your definition is that it's a horribly bad one.

Boating is when a significant portion, or the entire total, of a mechs offensive capabilities are focused on one weapon system, sans mechs that only carry one weapon. A Dual Gauss Jagermech is a Gauss Boat, for example. Pretty much everything that mounts two Gauss Rifles, exempting mechs like the Kodiak and King Crab that can actually carry two of them with back up armaments, is a boat.

But ok, fine, Ignore the word boat. Lets say you're right, and dual Gauss Rifles isn't boating. It doesn't change anything - You're still advocating for a quirk that promotes 'heavy loading' a single weapon system. Lets not forget that this 'heavy loading' is the second biggest hurdle for weapon balance in this game, after the Clan/IS divide. It's the thing that's arguably killed single UAC builds.

And you want to reward it.

I'm with Prosperity Park on this one - If anything, single Gauss Rifles need a range buff, not dual Gauss Rifles.

[Dimento Graven]

Warglbargl, on 23 January 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Gauss range seems fine to me.

I would suggest holding W to improve your personal results.

Trust me, I'm typically in the front of the battle line (true when I'm in my KDK, not as often as true when in my KGC, it's not possible with a 'mech so slow).

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 January 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Well I would hope the AC2 outpaces the Gauss in DPS given it generates more heat and the Gauss does 7.5x more damage per shot.

Yes, but people can actually "boat" AC/2's by carrying 4 or more of them, significantly outstripping the damage inflicted by gauss. The only advantage the gauss has is the pinpoint, but a person who is a good shot can make up the difference, AND, >>>TRULY<<< 'vomit' out the damage.

[Dimento Graven]

Bombast, on 23 January 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Boating is when a significant portion, or the entire total, of a mechs offensive capabilities are focused on one weapon system, sans mechs that only carry one weapon. A Dual Gauss Jagermech is a Gauss Boat, for example. Pretty much everything that mounts two Gauss Rifles, exempting mechs like the Kodiak and King Crab that can actually carry two of them with back up armaments, is a boat.

But ok, fine, Ignore the word boat. Lets say you're right, and dual Gauss Rifles isn't boating. It doesn't change anything - You're still advocating for a quirk that promotes 'heavy loading' a single weapon system. Lets not forget that this 'heavy loading' is the second biggest hurdle for weapon balance in this game, after the Clan/IS divide. It's the thing that's arguably killed single UAC builds.

And you want to reward it.

I'm with Prosperity Park on this one - If anything, single Gauss Rifles need a range buff, not dual Gauss Rifles.

We've already got significant quirks in the game that encourage actual 'boating'. Heck we've had them for forever, but somehow we're balking on undoing some of the damage done to dual gauss 'mechs?

Why?

In some imagined "oh we want to encourage variety"...

I call shenanigans on that mainly because there is variety in MWO (well, not all that much in the competitive scene, but who gives a flying f-bomb, you KNOW those guys are ALWAYS going for the min/max anyway).