35 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

I have to disagree about the Adder with UAC2s face tanking. That implies that a mech can't twist, and that you can't shoot and move. The Adder may shoot those AC2s while moving to a side or even still ducking and weaving in cover. The Adder also has a huge CT (somehow), so twisting in it doesn't seem to do it very much good as compared to other such mechs.

the St's cna protect the adders CT very well, and if you move sideways and stare shoot Ac2's youc an bet you get cored and killed in no time, just sideway movement isn't going to save you.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

I have had a lot of luck in the build personally, as you need to play the Adder like it's a medium and not like a light mech. You want to stick with heavier mechs, as people will ignore an Adder compared to most anything else. Then, if the enemy gets close, it's fast enough to move behind the enemy even while they deal with a teammate. Not to mention it's fast enough to reposition quickly.

you said in the other thread, trials are for newbies, that is already out of reahc for newbies and a dual sc2 mech would be a horrible champions and newbie build.

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

Not to mention the shake of AC2s, and if you can aim anywhere near the head component, even if you don't hit the head it can be blinding as well. Also, in T5, a lot of times someone takes a bit of damage, they tend to hide. So the UAC2 can just stream a little bit of damage and get a lot of people to pull back and hide most times. (I see this even in higher tiered matches.)


As far as "poke and alpha", the UAC2 Adder doesn't fit as nicely. But, if all the other Champion builds are being lasers (what I seem to be seeing)... wouldn't it be nice for the new players to have something different to work with? And, if quirks are going to stay after the Skill Trees (we don't know what's going on yet with that), the Adder has reasonable AC quirks and extra armor quirks on it's arms. (Plus most new players stare down opponents, don't twist, and alpha/shoot as much as they can. They also don't tend to hide to cool down, they just shoot until shutdown. The AC2 Adder lasts a very long time before it begins to overheat.)

And no, I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion. Just trying to provide some things to think of. If you haven't and wish to, I would recommend you actually give the build a solid try. It may surprise you... (Plus, it's a lot of fun to use.)

causing ac 2 shake and "something nice" to work with would work much better with other mechs (jeager for example). The adder and it's geometry aren't well suited for this kind of build, and just because newbies don't twist and make starebattles does not mean we should build mechs supporting this bad habits on chassis not suited for it. it will make them hit the ground hard if they ever go to FP or play vs T3+. Trials should teach not doom them with their bad ideas.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I choose #3.

Not perfect but pretty nice overall. Preferred this over the similiar ER-M option of #1.

Pulse lasers fire fast, it's little weak on the optimal range, but the firepower and speed along with fair armor makes up for it. Should be fairly easy to play.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 31 January 2017 - 05:51 AM.

[Tesunie]

Lily from animove, on 31 January 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

the St's cna protect the adders CT very well, and if you move sideways and stare shoot Ac2's youc an bet you get cored and killed in no time, just sideway movement isn't going to save you.

They can, but not often. I would have thought that the side torsos would have been large, but apparently they seem rather small as I twist and show a side, and I end up being cored in the CT still. (I will admit, HSR may have something to do with this as well.)

I would recommend that, if you have the Adder chassis, give the build a try? It may surprise you in it's ease of use and effectiveness. Move between cover, poke out and deliver a barrage of shells before hiding again. Zig zag a bit even. Dash from terrain to terrain. Stick with the bigger guys and let them tank for you.

Lily from animove, on 31 January 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

you said in the other thread, trials are for newbies, that is already out of reahc for newbies and a dual sc2 mech would be a horrible champions and newbie build.

I know I'm no new player, as I've been playing for some time and thus understand the game and have habits that have developed to improve my game play (such as twisting), but I've been having a lot of fun and been doing well in my AC2 Adder. Better than you probably would think, and that's at T3 (not T2) levels of game play.

To give an idea, over 84 games played with the mech I have averaged 272 damage per match played. This includes the time to level it up, as well matches where I did great and matches I went "squish". (And this is derived directly from my stats, not me saying "I recall doing 600 damage average per match" arbitrarily.) Out of all of my Adders, I've used this one the most (others have around 50 matches played). It's been very fun to play with, and fun as well as different weapon types should be considered in trial mechs in my opinion. If a mech is super effective, but isn't fun... what's the point?

We also do wish new players to experience several different weapon systems, right? All I've been seeing suggested so far is lasers on the mechs I've been keeping tabs on. Lasers, lasers and lasers. I know they are effective and easy to use, but don't you think we should have mechs that do something else as well?

Lily from animove, on 31 January 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

causing ac 2 shake and "something nice" to work with would work much better with other mechs (jeager for example). The adder and it's geometry aren't well suited for this kind of build, and just because newbies don't twist and make starebattles does not mean we should build mechs supporting this bad habits on chassis not suited for it. it will make them hit the ground hard if they ever go to FP or play vs T3+. Trials should teach not doom them with their bad ideas.

Jeager would be good for UAC5s or AC5s rather than AC2 spam. A King Crab though can pull a hex AC2 off even better.

As far as FP is concerned... Do you recommend a new player to jump into FP right away with nothing but Trial mechs? And don't forget, they also will have two trial mech lights to choose from. The other one could very well be the Cheetah with 5 ERSLs or something.

We can't make a mech diverse, easy to use, good at QP and FP, and work well at all levels of play. With the AC2 Adder, my concept with it is, it's fun to use, shows off UACs, is different from the laser spam, and works better than most people tend to expect.

Seriously, if you can, give it a try. The build may very well surprise you more than you might expect.

[Lily from animove]

If we talk about experimenting, then I think we should give them proper options. Most lights will use lasers, so surely the adder is not in need to be just antoher laservomit mech. But then 2PPC's on a light isnt what you can make on many others without much sacrifice, so that could and probably shoul be a choice. as well as srm bombing. But srm bombing can also be done with a jenner). ac2 builds should belong to the medium tonnage mechs in my opinion they will simply work better for most newbies. Giving this in a light to newbies is in my opinion just asking for a bit too much when it comes to newbies.

[Tesunie]

Lily from animove, on 01 February 2017 - 02:51 AM, said:

If we talk about experimenting, then I think we should give them proper options. Most lights will use lasers, so surely the adder is not in need to be just antoher laservomit mech. But then 2PPC's on a light isnt what you can make on many others without much sacrifice, so that could and probably shoul be a choice. as well as srm bombing. But srm bombing can also be done with a jenner). ac2 builds should belong to the medium tonnage mechs in my opinion they will simply work better for most newbies. Giving this in a light to newbies is in my opinion just asking for a bit too much when it comes to newbies.

On the Adder, I find two ERPPCs to run too hot (at least last time I tried it). I actually had submitted two different SRM builds for the Adder (one Streak, one normal) that included an ERLL for long range opening movements. However, the UAC2 build I posted got more likes overall, so apparently more people thought it was a better option.

As far as it's effectiveness as a light mech with ballistics, I've found the Adder and Kit Fox are some of the very few light mechs that can pull ballistics off (besides MG) rather reasonably. And of those two, the Adder did better than my Kit fox design. Most light mechs can't handle ACs because of their weight, but the Adder is more like a pocket medium, and really doesn't like to be treated as a light mech from what I've seen when I've played with it. So, giving it a payload you'd feel would fit a medium mech better is actually very fitting for an Adder.

In relation to the builds for voting here, I feel my UAC2 Adder would work fine as a Champion build. Out of all the builds I submitted total, I feel my SRM version would have been a better choice, followed by the UAC2 build. So, I was kinda surprised when my SRM build got less votes, and that the UAC2 build was second place in the votes. I wouldn't have submitted it if I felt it would have been bad for new players.

I still have to ask, have you considered trying the build out? You may be surprised by how well it does work. It's simple to use, very hard to overheat, operates at nearly any range, and can easily stay on the move while shooting. Recall an Adder doesn't move as fast as other light mechs tend to, but behaves far more like a medium mech and wants to be treated as a medium mech. Treat the Adder like it's a light mech, and it's going to underperform for you. So, relating it's build to that of a medium mech is rather accurate for what it's actually capable of.

[Dee Eight]

I changed my vote to the UAC build. That you can fire the UACs for TWO MINUTES AND THIRTY TWO SECONDS without over heating versus the two energy builds which overheat in 19 and 11 seconds respectively.... gee...which is more new player friendly ?!

[Wraith 1]

Do build #2. If we get enough new players addicted to piloting Adders with low-slung UAC/2s, maybe IS will start taking planets back.






Build #3 please.

[PFC Carsten]

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Let's discuss the top 3 voted Adder builds! Answer the following:
- Which one of the below 3 builds do you think should get implemented as the champion?
- Why would this fit best as the Adder Champion?
- Is your pick new-player friendly? If so, how?

My pleasure.

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Build #1: Adder Prime

Long burn times and low mounts will lead to poor performance with inexperienced players. Not a good choice for beginners. Also need some heat-management skills. Plus side: Arm weapons, able to shoot UAVs, track circling fast lights.

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Build #2: Adder B

No punch. New Players will wonder, why they do rarely get kills even when hitting their target repeatedly. Plus side: teaches players to choose from two weapons according to range.

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Build #3: Adder Prime

Best of the three builds, though CT-MPL should be switched to 2 additional heatsinks, making both sides equal, thus easier manageable for new players.

--

What I am missing though, is the classic 2LPL-built.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 02 February 2017 - 01:34 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Tesunie, on 30 January 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

I have to disagree about the Adder with UAC2s face tanking.

I don't get all the issue and face "tanking".

Lights aren't supposed to attack enemies face, they are supposed to flank slower mechs, and in this case pepper them, and because it's UAC2 it's usually a lot safer, and unlike lasers you can literally stop the "stream" anytime with the stream, relocate and move on.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 03 February 2017 - 03:02 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Adders are limited by available hardpoints. They are good distance fire support mechs... NOT close range brawlers. Don't force newbies to play a chassis in a way it can never really be good at except at the hands of an elite player.

Edited by Dee Eight, 04 February 2017 - 09:29 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Build #1: Adder Prime

Probably the most effective of the three.

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Build #2: Adder B

Most fun, 8 backarmor on a facehugging light is borderline tho.

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Build #3: Adder Prime

Way to hot even with elite skills, not recommended for a basic skill level trial'mech.

[The Schwartz]

If i'm remembering correctly, #2 could be done with the torso for the UAC/2's I'm pretty sure i ran that for leveling one of my adders. It's got higher points which to me helps not shooting the hill full of bullets. Lasers on the arms worked better for short range anyways. #2 is a whole lot of fun if you swap the guns around a hair (was playing pre quirk though so not entirely sure which omni's are tied to what quirks)

Either way you got a faster mech with a little variety that runs cool and goes BLAM BLAM at things and really... in a big stompy robot game.. it's as much about how the mech makes you feel as it does how effective you are with it. #2 all the way.

[Lily from animove]

The6thMessenger, on 03 February 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

I don't get all the issue and face "tanking".

Lights aren't supposed to attack enemies face, they are supposed to flank slower mechs, and in this case pepper them, and because it's UAC2 it's usually a lot safer, and unlike lasers you can literally stop the "stream" anytime with the stream, relocate and move on.

flanking isn't exactly within newbie players capabilities it require sknowledge about placement and opponents position as well as map knowledge, the majority of newbies will facetank as that is what they do, see an opponents, shoot at it. which mostlikely will mean they get shot back. Not even sepakign about "slower" mechs, as if newbies know whats slower. The amount of things you imply to have happened in just the sentences you said there are many, and often outside the newbies capabilities.

[Tesunie]

Before I start, I'd like to comment to those that say Build #2 needs more front armor, if PGI decided to permit it, I wouldn't mind lowering rear armor in favor of more front armor. I am just concerned about doing so because I've personally had many attacks with the Adder "hit the front, damage the back" in a lot of my matches. So, sometimes that back armor seems to be needed as a form of front armor... (I think people hit the very back of the top part of the short mech when this happens...)

The Schwartz, on 05 February 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

If i'm remembering correctly, #2 could be done with the torso for the UAC/2's I'm pretty sure i ran that for leveling one of my adders. It's got higher points which to me helps not shooting the hill full of bullets. Lasers on the arms worked better for short range anyways. #2 is a whole lot of fun if you swap the guns around a hair (was playing pre quirk though so not entirely sure which omni's are tied to what quirks)

Either way you got a faster mech with a little variety that runs cool and goes BLAM BLAM at things and really... in a big stompy robot game.. it's as much about how the mech makes you feel as it does how effective you are with it. #2 all the way.

Build #2 can be built with the UACs in the side torso only with the use of the Hero omnipods. Hero Omnipods could not be used in the creation of the proposed Champion builds.

Trust me when I say this, if I could have gotten the weapon mounts higher, I would have. As it is, it actually isn't all that low (from my experience). Occupationally I might hit a hill with one of the two, but rarely will both be blocked.

I do agree with you, and if I could have done as you stated, than I certainly would have.

Lily from animove, on 06 February 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

flanking isn't exactly within newbie players capabilities it require sknowledge about placement and opponents position as well as map knowledge, the majority of newbies will facetank as that is what they do, see an opponents, shoot at it. which mostlikely will mean they get shot back. Not even sepakign about "slower" mechs, as if newbies know whats slower. The amount of things you imply to have happened in just the sentences you said there are many, and often outside the newbies capabilities.

And new players are just as likely to stop and stand still once they see a target to line up their shots and shoot... Which would discourage any light mech from being a possible trial. We can't always plan for everything a new player may do with a mech.

The most common things I see new players do is either rush into the enemy alone, or hang behind their team and attack from mid to longer ranges, in about equal measure. If they do the former with the Adder they will most likely die. If they do the latter, some of the build suggestions here can not support that style of engagement. In the latter case, build #2 can at least assist in, as the former case is not exactly favorable for an Adder. (Though the the Arctic Cheetah or Mist Lynx, which are already champion builds to possibly be in the Trial rotation and have ERSLs and pulses, can perform the former actions well.)

Looking at what is already available for clan light trial possibilities, the current selection of possible Adders for the rotation is either more of the same (lasers and short range, though longer ranges than the others) or one that can do well at most ranges and carries something different. So, no matter what currently (and likely for the future), there will always be a selection of light mech that supports closer ranged engagements and less "face time".

[0111101]

Build #1, please. Solid (though admittedly basic) load out - sufficient heat sinks to utilize said load out without mech mastery.

#2 doesn't have any punch or weapon synergy. The mental image I have of a new player running this build is... amusing.

#3 is way too hot for a new player (but still a solid load out.)

[Nelos Kniven]

Of these, one is not for an Adder. 3 Is decent, If used properly. 2, Is great. ACs, great ammo and some nice little back up guns. Adder is built for firepower and would be best with one big ac, not 2 small, but this is our best option it appears.