48 replies to this topic

[tokumboh]

None of the above: God that felt like politics

Firstly XL engines in a warhammer means that it is at best a poke and scoot type mech and I accept it gives more lethality but seriously you would not want to give it to a Tier 5 pilot.

Secondly having one SRM 4 in a build again does not make any sense to give any synergy you would push at least 2 SRM 4 to make things viable

I would straight remove the XL and SRM4 and replace that with a STD295 and then you have something to work with on build 2, WHM-6R (i have run this and it is noob/crap player friendly, I should know I am a tier 4). you could have arguments about armour distribution but that does not cost anything to change and I would have thought it make sense for newer pilots to have more rather than less. I got backstabbed too many times before I learnt what was going on. Lights with 30-40 point alphas will kill you.

The other two basically match the meta of ERLL/LPL poke and scoot. This requires more coordination and skill and so I could understand why they are the builds they are but they are definitely not noob friendly and indeed will be pretty much the opposite.

That said I think you should have a beginners mech and a champions mech and both should have C bill bonuses. I'd think that it would allow beginners to see what a good safe build would be and allow them to optimise over time. I would suggest a beginners mech concentrate on allowing max armour max heat dissipation over firepower for example so that the beginners does enough damage to take part and has enough health to not be out of the fight to quickly and the C bill and XP bonus would be of great help to them.

I would also suggest that all the beginers mechs be available as trial mechs allowing more variety rather than the 4 of each as we now have.

Edited by tokumboh, 13 February 2017 - 12:46 AM.

[Bradigus]

Build #3 is something that still has decent firepower, great heat dissipation, great mobility and a standard engine permits new players to survive with them long enough to actually damage their opponents, even if they simply stare at them.

[DavidStarr]

None of these three is friendly to new players. I should know, I'm not a great player and I have both 6D and 6R.
None of these builds is particularly good.

Why are they not friendly? The 6D builds are asymmetric and very hot. The 6R build... I don't even get it. Too short-ranged and a waste of tonnage. The battle will be over before you get an opportunity to kill something.

My suggestion for 6D: XL320 + quad LPL.
I could suggest some 6R builds, too, but that's clearly beyond the scope of this thread.

P. S. I don't have a problem brawling in XL Warhammers so XL is perfectly fine. I run XL in all 3 of my WHMs, and I do indeed brawl and face-stare way more than I poke (especially in Black Widow, for obvious reasons). I guess the hitboxes are good enough.

Edited by DavidStarr, 13 February 2017 - 01:11 AM.

[tokumboh]

Larsh, on 31 January 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

I rarely come to these forums, but I figure that since my build is up for voting I might as well come here to see what people think. I am the one who built option #2.

I am also a little shocked that this build made it this far, and I knew it would garnish a bit of flack for it's loadout. But, I remember being new to this game back in 2013, and not knowing squat about anything stats wise. I've been playing with a new player this week, and I was shocked at how little the in-game tutorial teaches newer players. And, the one thing that newer players never understand is Ghost Heat. This build was built around negating ghost heat when possible, but also attempting to produce the highest alpha strike for the WHM.

I used these 2 websites to cross reference ghost heat for each weapon loadout in MWO.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale
http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

Since I am assuming that we're all veteran players here, we need to understand the mindset of how a new player is going to play. I was able to drop in a T5 match for the first time this past week in a long time, and I noticed these items:

-Not listening to others in comms.
-Not using comms.
-Ignoring heat warnings, and shutting down (a lot)
-Going in solo without your teammates.

Builds #1 and #3 are both very good builds, and I would use either one. But, the one thing I see constantly here on these forums is the lack of variety. I would almost say that #1 and #3 are almost the same minus some hard point rearrangement, and slightly different engine. My worry is that newer players will be turned off by using another laser vomit build, with a high heat potential. I believe the WHM is the kind of mech that has much more to offer than just laser boating.

Maybe I just like odd builds, but I can do very well in #2 in a T2 / T1 match averaging around 500 - 700 dmg per match. And even more if in a coordinated Murder Ball.

Hi Larsh

I watch your youtube channel on occasion. Personally as a crap player the most important thing is staying in the fight. You are going to take damage if you are new and not passive so it is best to have something that is not XL based on IS mechs with inviting side torsos. I accept a better player will be able to shield with arms which is a great thing about WHM in general but new player will not do that without practice. I would have gone with STD engine. The other thing was the fact that it has an SRM4, Ok I can see that it has the hardpoints but would it not confuse new pilots having just too much to consider. I felt that just the two weapon systems a STD295 was a better build for noob pilots. I am sure that you handle this one well but I found that it was less fragile with that set up.

Edited by tokumboh, 13 February 2017 - 11:24 PM.

[Nelos Kniven]

1 and 3 are too much like the Hellbringer. 2 is a good build with plenty of ammo and short range splat capabilities. It would go well, just keep all the different builds diverse.

[Shenanigan23]

Quick question: I notice the champion whr currently has more structure bonus than the normal model. If this champion was bought, what would happen with its bonuses when the next lot of champions come around, as well as the skill tree change?
Would it remain slightly superior to the normal model, or just fall in line with its bonuses?

[Shenanigan23]

NVM, found the answer in the patch notes...

[Karl the Plumber]

Build #3. Same thing others have pointed out: it's a solid mech for trial because it has enough weapons to be useful and enough durability to let new players survive long enough to learn something.

[CraneArmy]

I know these champions have already come out, but whats all the worry about XL's in teir 5.
1) they arnt going to be able to identify an xl build and focus a side torso instead of CT.
2) they arnt going to focus any component, its teir 5.

XL's arnt any harder to drive than Standards. You might die faster, but you are also going to kill quicker. The only reason XL's are not new player friendly, is because they are so expensive. If you are talking about new trial mechs, give them an XL, let them learn how to play with the extra firepower/heat.

My first game in a 6D (xl300 3xlpl 6xmed) was a 1k+ quickplay, and then I bought a second 6D. The 3+4 build suggested is capable of that too. Its worth giving new players something optimized for winning against high level filthy casuals.