135 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

Mcgral18, on 24 January 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Being under tonnage/under slots is no issue

Ok if you think so although being under tonnage is a bit weird (also depends on the amount).

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 24 January 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

EDIT: Ninja post deletion is ninja.

I know, I got distracted in between posts and hadn't updated the thread. MY REDUNDANCY SHALL NOT BE SEEN.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 January 2017 - 06:36 PM.

[nehebkau]

To clan players: Let me put it in perspective.... I would gladly take a 50% heat reduction AND move at legged speed if losing a side torso on an ISXL engine didn't mean instant death.

[Johnny Z]

Even with tech equality lore can be maintained that the Clan invasion met little resistance for a very long time until a defense could be mounted. Its even more interesting looking at it like that. Rather than a stomp.

Its way better for Clan players to. Not fun playing easy mode and being called a sissy.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 January 2017 - 07:01 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Hit the Deck, on 24 January 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

You said that LFE will make STD less relevant (paraphrasing, don't exactly remember what you said) which is true.

Give IS Heavy Gauss Rifles to make STD necessary when you want to use the weapon. Of course, the HGR itself must not suck.

Not even close to what i said...



STD and Gauss is important now, if you have it in a ST. Also if you run into slot issues.

Edited by Revis Volek, 24 January 2017 - 08:36 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Revis Volek, on 24 January 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

...
STD and Gauss is important now, if you have it in a ST. Also if you run into slot issues.

Good then we more or less agree.

STD is "important" because there are certain builds that need use it.

[Cabusha]

Brenden, on 24 January 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

What is LFE?

It's a crappier IS copy of a clan XL. Same durability, but only 75% weight.

[Chuck Jager]

Don't forget the ability to mount 2 uac5 or 2 ac10 in clan w xl but not IS (pretty sure this is correct)

[Hit the Deck]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 January 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

PGI's ability to balance shouldn't be a factor, and we'd actually have a great game if it wasn't because there's already plenty in the game to make IS compete with Clans by just adjusting equipment values...

Going of tangent here but do you really believe that BT can be turned well into a PvP FPS? Even without Clan it would still be ugly with things like hardpoint location (height, relation to cockpit, and how close they are to each other) becomes an important parameter when evaluating a 'Mech.

It's a wrong IP to choose for this kind of game.

[Y E O N N E]

Hit the Deck, on 24 January 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

Going of tangent here but do you really believe that BT can be turned well into a PvP FPS? Even without Clan it would still be ugly with things like hardpoint location (height, relation to cockpit, and how close they are to each other) becomes an important parameter when evaluating a 'Mech.

It's a wrong IP to choose for this kind of game.

It's already a PvP game, and it works fairly well all things considered, so...yes?

I don't even think it's the wrong IP. Rather, Arena Shooter is the wrong game mode. If it had been constructed as more of a Planetside-style game, it would have been infinitely better.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

1453 R, on 24 January 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

Knock it off. The two options have the exact same reward; the cXL doesn't offer a single gram of weight savings the iXL doesn't. The risk is different, true, but that's what people are trying to sort out. Snarky memebait serves no one.

"the risk is different"...???? That is what you are calling it... one is catastrophic failure & the other is an inconvience. So while i have to concede that those technically are "DIFFERENT" outcomes, you are being disingenuous at best by implication that they are even remotely similar outcomes!!!!!!!!!!

[KuroNyra]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 24 January 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

"the risk is different"...???? That is what you are calling it... one is catastrophic failure & the other is an inconvience. So while i have to concede that those technically are "DIFFERENT" outcomes, you are being disingenuous at best by implication that they are even remotely similar outcomes!!!!!!!!!!

Different gameplay style.

What, you want every battlemech and Omnimech to play exactly the same no matter the engine used? Sorry but that's not how it was tought like.


STD Engines offer protection but slow speed.
XL offer less protection but more speed.
Clan offer a more protection than XL and more speed than STD.

IS got 2 different way of gameplay, Clans are pretty much stuck with one.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

FupDup, on 24 January 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

Well, if we look at these two weapons completely by themselves then you save 3 tons with the Clan Plasma Cannon. 3 tons won't be enough to supplement it with ballistics...other than MGs and AP Gauss I guess.

This is one of the few cases (maybe only case) where the weapons have legitimately different roles rather than Clan version being a one-up. Clan one is purely specialized against infantry (does literally zero damage to mechs for some odd reason) with better range, while the IS one can actually hurt mechs while still having a nice bonus against other targets.

Dude... cPlasma Cannons HURT the f@ck out of mechs in TT!!!!!!!! dumping 2D6 heat onto a mech that has fired can very easily start making ammo and engine checks to see if they detonate... in the RNG system of the TT, it is a very brutally effective weapon. Even after the first time when the other player has to severely restrict his weapons fire until that mech as fired for any mech in range, having a disproportionally large impact upon the game. So clearly... you have never used or faced that weapon if you do not think it is very good to great.

[ingramli]

I do have a thought regarding the alternative to current approach of ST death/penalty, and here's is my idea,

1. Make critical hit to engine slot for XL and LFE become possible,

2. separate each engine critical slot so that they have individual health,

3. For ALL XL/LF engine, when the health of a critical slot of the engine become "0", that section of engine is considered "destroyed", and the performance (speed, turning, and cooling capability) degrades according to the number of engine section(s) being destroyed.

4. When 3 sections of Clan/IS XL engine is destroyed, all the internal engine heat sinks, and any extra mounted on it are considered total loss, if the mech had got no external heat sinks intact in other sections, the mech will not get any cooling anymore and eventually killed by heat, external heat sinks and cool shot will help though,

5. A destroyed side torso will take all the engine sections mounted on it gone together, so yes, a IS mech will get zero cooling when a ST is gone, provided that it use XL engine with no extra heat sinks mounted somewhere else. There will be no further cooling for its weapon, but not sudden death.

6. Both clan and IS mechs can loss all the engine's cooling capabilities without any ST blown off, provided that sufficient amount of engine sections are destroyed.

7. STD is immune to critical hit, and thus the engine's output/cooling capabilities will remain 100% during the life of the mech, until the CT is gone, so essentially there is no change to it;

8. On a balancing purpose, IS can get more health for each engine section if necessary.

Ideas/suggestion/criticisms (with some rationale rather than merely saying "Clan is simply superior why bother with it!") are welcome.

[Horseman]

ingramli, on 25 January 2017 - 03:46 AM, said:

I do have a thought regarding the alternative to current approach of ST death/penalty, and here's is my idea,

Ideas/suggestion/criticisms (with some rationale rather than merely saying "Clan is simply superior why bother with it!") are welcome.https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png

What you're describing is similar to the TT implementation - with the difference that any engine can be critted (XLs are obviously more vulnerable due to taking side torso slots) and three engine crits kill your mech stone dead.

Honestly, I think this just boils down to:

1. Make critical hits to engine slots possible,

2. Have damage to ST XL slots affect the total engine health.

3. Degrade engine performance and cooling based on the remaining total engine health

4. Keep sudden death for IS XL engines losing a side torso.

5. Losing the engine should be sudden death - it's your power source, and without it your mech is just a huge metal statue.

6. IS getting more health for their XL Engines could work, there's already a parallel for IS DHS.

Edited by Horseman, 25 January 2017 - 05:22 AM.

[Buster Machine 0]

This is great, I'd love to have 3 different engine types to mess with.