92 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

A Devastator with 2 AC10, 2 PPC, for instance.

Mauler can already do that, King Crab can already do that. One of those two is a solid chassis (and it isn't the King Crab), so do you honestly think the slightly better armor is magically going to make the Devastator good?

Both of those builds btw are better off with Gauss instead of AC10s.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 January 2017 - 03:17 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Mauler can already do that, King Crab can already do that. One of those two is a solid chassis (and it isn't the King Crab), so do you honestly think the slightly better armor is magically going to make the Devastator good?

King Crab is a paper mech, with trouble bringing weapons on target.. And yes Mauler can do it, does it need to do it a lot better? Which is what buffing AC10s will do?

Whatever.

Honestly, I should welcome it... at least it will change the flavor of the meta a little bit.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

And yes Mauler can do it, does it need to do it a lot better? Which is what buffing AC10s will do?

Considering in both cases Gauss is preferred despite the extra fragility it adds, then yes it does need to do it better.

[Reno Blade]

I'm only fine with increasing projectile speeds, if the weapon spreads damage (e.g. AC burst fire or PPC splash), otherwise, I'm against making weapons easier to hit with.

[Bishop Steiner]

Reno Blade, on 24 January 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

I'm only fine with increasing projectile speeds, if the weapon spreads damage (e.g. AC burst fire or PPC splash), otherwise, I'm against making weapons easier to hit with.

I'll take lower projectile speed to avoid that burst ac fire, all day, every day... really don't need more guns turned into DPS weapons. That'd be a great way to further punish lighter units trying to use ac10s and 20s.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 January 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Considering in both cases Gauss is preferred despite the extra fragility it adds, then yes it does need to do it better.

AC10: 10 dmg, 3 heat, 2.5 second cooldown for 12 tons.
PPC: 10 dmg, 9.5 heat, 4 second cooldown for 7 tons.
Gauss: 15 damage, 1 heat, 5.75 second cooldown for 15 tons.

Closest convergence we get is at 20ish seconds, when the PPCs and AC10s overlap, and well, close enough for the Gauss.

Singly, at that mark we have:

AC10: 80 damage, 24 heat, for 8 shots.
PPC: 50 damage, 47.5 heat for 5 shots
Gauss: 60 damage, 6 heats for 6 shots.

Double the weapons up, and the difference is much larger. And the PPCs run into issues with the crit spaces needed for DHS.

PPC does have the better range and velocity, but it suffers heavily in sustainability. Gauss certainly has it's advantages (long range, essentially no heat) but is heavy as heck, fragile, and has a low RoF plus a the charge up.

AC10 is, even now the better choice for brawling. PPCS and Gauss compete for sniping, with Gauss being superior in heavier chassis, because of low heat and the projectile speed... but the PPCs low weight (comparitively) let's it pair well... and is the only choice for lighter units, if one wants more than one...though I find the RoF on those Medium dual PPC mechs pretty atrocious if you can press them.

On a Medium Chassis only capable of mounting one of them, it would depend on the role, but I would lean toward the Gauss for sniping still, and the AC10 for medium to short range builds. Even doubled... I have my RFL-5D with 2x PPC, and it is nowhere near as efficient as my RFL-3N with 2x AC10.

So no, I don't consider the ac10 a pinnacle weapon, but it is far from bad. And I still have seen nothing to really address the issues with boating/syncing, other than to dismiss it can happen... when in fact, it can... and as such, it will.

[Captain Stiffy]

play an unbuffed ac/20 for awhile and it'll seem easy

no srsly

[L3mming2]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

I'll take lower projectile speed to avoid that burst ac fire, all day, every day... really don't need more guns turned into DPS weapons. That'd be a great way to further punish lighter units trying to use ac10s and 20s.

XD grab hold of your knees and prepare, a certain 50t IS medium mech that quite often runs a standard engine is about to get shafted XD

would that not be a pity...

[Bishop Steiner]

L3mming2, on 24 January 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

would that not be a pity...

considering how seldom you see either of the 50 ton AC carriers you could be referring to, anymore? Indeed it would be.

It'd be the kiss of death for pretty much any ballistics carrier 60ish tons and under. But absolutely the end of any chance of of the Centy, Hunch and Enforcer being remotely viable.

Although most people still labor under the delusion that CN9s need std engines and run around as gimped SRM carriers anyhow... and I can't remember the last time I saw a non Sword and Board Laservomit Enforcer... not that I see them, much at all, any more.......

Why not? Let's reduce diversity in this game even more!

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

A Devastator with 2 AC10, 2 PPC, for instance.

More interested in a 3 AC10, 2 PPC Thunder Hawk

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 January 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

More interested in a 3 AC10, 2 PPC Thunder Hawk

which would be devastating, even under current stats. Just not as good for Mid to long range hill peeking.

[Mcgral18]

Jun Watarase, on 24 January 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Something has always bugged me about the advertised projectile speeds.

In theory a projectile with 1000 m/s would cover 1000m in 1 second.

But i regularly see mechs moonwalking their way out of projectile flight paths, im not talking about locusts either. Heavies just moon walking their way out of projectile flight paths at 300m or below, i can have their torso lined up, fire, and then they just moonwalk away before the projectiles reach them, even though the projectiles should be 1000m/s or faster.

I wouldnt be surprised if the advertised projectile speeds arent accurate due to some cryengine thing that nobody thought of, like, some kind of friction setting or whatever that slows projectiles down.

I've read that there's some sort of simulated wind resistance (which would progressively slow down projectiles)


I've never bothered testing myself.

[Graugger]

I think it needs nerfed, seems to OP compared to Clan AC 10s

[Tristan Winter]

Mcgral18, on 24 January 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

I've read that there's some sort of simulated wind resistance (which would progressively slow down projectiles)


I've never bothered testing myself.

On a completely seperate topic, have you ever tested the approximate max height of different classes of jump jets, depending on how many are equipped?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

AC10: 10 dmg, 3 heat, 2.5 second cooldown for 12 tons.
PPC: 10 dmg, 9.5 heat, 4 second cooldown for 7 tons.
Gauss: 15 damage, 1 heat, 5.75 second cooldown for 15 tons.

Closest convergence we get is at 20ish seconds, when the PPCs and AC10s overlap, and well, close enough for the Gauss.

Singly, at that mark we have:

AC10: 80 damage, 24 heat, for 8 shots.
PPC: 50 damage, 47.5 heat for 5 shots
Gauss: 60 damage, 6 heats for 6 shots.

Ok cool, the AC10 does extra damage during that time but isn't just about DPS. Taking a shot when PPCs aren't recharged is just asking to get out traded unless you are pushing. Now in the case of a push the extra DPS is nice, but AC5s are better off for this due to higher DPS and extra range and better comparative velocity. In other words the AC10 just isn't good enough unless you simply don't have the hardpoints (and generally the space is more of a concern).

[Tristan Winter]

Graugger, on 24 January 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

I think it needs nerfed, seems to OP compared to Clan AC 10s

[Hit the Deck]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 January 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

And why should that be bad? We've got a Gauss rifle across the way with the same weight and smaller size and better range. Why shouldn't the AC/10 at least compete in its own bracket?

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 January 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

This, the concern over weapon synergy is a goofy one. Weapon synergy is a good thing because it gives more reason to not boat weapons, it also means the weapon becomes useful for mechs that can't boat AC10s (which is pretty much all of them) but can use one or two with PPCs.

I didn't say that I'm opposed to AC/10+PPC combo.

It was just funny how Quicksilver worded his reply which implied that he wants to make AC/10+PPC PPFLD.

[Bishop Steiner]

Battletech 2017 closed beta please come soon... then I can leave this shithole behind and y'all can trash it further however you like.

[Hit the Deck]

Tristan Winter, on 24 January 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

On a completely seperate topic, have you ever tested the approximate max height of different classes of jump jets, depending on how many are equipped?

Smurphy shows this. Is that what you mean?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 24 January 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

It was just funny how Quicksilver worded his reply which implied that he wants to make AC/10+PPC PPFLD.

I don't necessarily care if the AC10 is PPFLD (although it should because it allows it to be more comparable to the Clan AC10) I just want it to be synced with other weapons.