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Roundtable Meeting With Russ Bullock And Devs On Twitch.tv/ngngtv


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#181 Tarogato

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 10:06 PM

View PostMonkey Lover, on 27 January 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Two mercs and mech the dane.... lol and the mercs talked most the time Posted Image

At least the mercs tried to help the loyalists but they have no idea what the problem is because they're mercs. They want to give loyalist rewards? If they cared about rewards they would be mercs.

If you're a loyalist... and you didn't get what you wanted...

... then what do you want?

(also, you have a merc icon next to your name.)





Quote

None of them had any idea how to help solo players.

Solo players don't need any help. They need to quit dropping in and muddling up a game mode that was originally intended to be unit vs. unit warfare. The moment PGI decided that solo players should be allowed to participate equally... they effed up. Solo's need to be driven toward units somehow.




View PostWill9761, on 27 January 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Well there is no fun when a Loyalist get the short stick of FP. [...] If you're a IS or Clan loyalist, you have to stick with the side you are given but as a Mercenary, I can run an IS or Clan deck. [...] What I also hate about Merc Life is the fact they can jump around all willy-nilly with no consequences at all.

Why would a loyalist complain that they are stuck with one side? Why would they complain that they can't jump around? They are loyalists - they signed up to be stuck with one side. That is the choice they made. You can't say that it's unfair that mercs get all the benefits of hopping around and getting to play both Clan and IS ... when you had the option to be a merc and chose loyalist instead. And that's ignoring that many loyalists even when granted the option still wouldn't touch the other side's techbase with a ten-foot pole. Because they're loyalists.

Edited by Tarogato, 27 January 2017 - 10:16 PM.


#182 Deathlike

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 10:10 PM

View PostTarogato, on 27 January 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:

Solo players don't need any help. They need to quit dropping in and muddling up a game mode that was originally intended to be unit vs. unit warfare. The moment PGI decided that solo players should be allowed to participate equally... they effed up. Solo's need to be driven toward units somehow.


They aren't inherently the problem though. It's the introduction to the deep end that never really develop because they aren't up to the task (possibly/probably having developed no good habits in the solo queue of QP). It's mostly an NPE problem coupled with a poor LFG system that doesn't really interact with people ontop of not having groups/units teaching them the proper way to play FP.

Mind you, this isn't exactly about bad players that don't want to listen (they exist, and that's a different problem to solve), but it's really a systematic problem that PGI has not been ever able to address in any semblance.

#183 Tarogato

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 10:22 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 27 January 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

They aren't inherently the problem though. It's the introduction to the deep end that never really develop because they aren't up to the task (possibly/probably having developed no good habits in the solo queue of QP). It's mostly an NPE problem coupled with a poor LFG system that doesn't really interact with people ontop of not having groups/units teaching them the proper way to play FP.

Mind you, this isn't exactly about bad players that don't want to listen (they exist, and that's a different problem to solve), but it's really a systematic problem that PGI has not been ever able to address in any semblance.


I do kinda like your solution. I'm not sure if I grasped all of it, but the way I might adapt it is thus:

1. every team in CW must be always kickstarted by an 8+ group. There is no such thing as a pug group anymore.
2. solo players can only fill in the gaps left open by the larger groups. So if there is a 9-man group in queue, then three solo's get thrown in.

Thus, if you have a hard time finding a match as a solo player (long queue times), bam there you go, incentive to join a unit and drop as a group.


The other solution of course is the matchmaker boogeyman, which tries its best to wait for a fair match before throwing a pug team into a premade tryhard meatgrinder.

#184 Appogee

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 10:32 PM

View PostTryh4rd3r, on 26 January 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

The number one issue they missed is full Premades being placed in to matches against PUG groups.

The end result is almost always the pugs getting steam rolled 12-48. It's not fun for the PUGS and I can't believe it's genuinely fun for the premades.


I don't generally see large units complaining about this.

Edited by Appogee, 27 January 2017 - 10:33 PM.


#185 Morticia Mellian

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 10:36 PM

View PostMech The Dane, on 27 January 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:


Everything clanner loyalists asked me to ask; I did.



Or we get a Clanner Loyalist in the roundtable to not only ask questions, but participate in the discussions. There are concerns and issues Clan Loyalists have that were not mentioned. In much of the topics, mainly from Merc and IS perspective which is prone to wanting to ask for something that ends up nerfing Clans yet again.

Edited by Morticia Mellian, 27 January 2017 - 10:47 PM.


#186 Appogee

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 10:37 PM

View PostTarogato, on 27 January 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

The only solution is to segregate the good players from the bad via a rudimentary matchmaking system. But PGI won't do it because it we don't have the population to sustain it.

Chicken and egg. People tend not to persist with the mode after being constantly farmed by large groups.

I enjoy FP, but even I can't stomach it some days when the matches are just so bad.

#187 Tarogato

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 10:39 PM

View PostAppogee, on 27 January 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

I don't generally see large units complaining about this.


Because they left. https://www.reddit.c...f_evil/dcq4912/

#188 Jarl Dane

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:00 PM

View PostMorticia Mellian, on 27 January 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

There are concerns and issues Clan Loyalists have that were not mentioned.


Do me a favor, tell me what IS-specific issues and concerns were mentioned at the roundtable?

#189 Lupis Volk

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:15 PM

View PostAppogee, on 27 January 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

Chicken and egg. People tend not to persist with the mode after being constantly farmed by large groups.

I enjoy FP, but even I can't stomach it some days when the matches are just so bad.

If anything I find Scouting to be a pug "safe space" less players and the clans had some of their cheese taken away and with the advent of the Bush Whacker the IS got some much needed cheese, though clam puggers don't help by bringing "redline" mechs.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 27 January 2017 - 11:16 PM.


#190 Will9761

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:17 PM

View PostTarogato, on 27 January 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:


Why would a loyalist complain that they are stuck with one side? Why would they complain that they can't jump around? They are loyalists - they signed up to be stuck with one side. That is the choice they made. You can't say that it's unfair that mercs get all the benefits of hopping around and getting to play both Clan and IS ... when you had the option to be a merc and chose loyalist instead. And that's ignoring that many loyalists even when granted the option still wouldn't touch the other side's techbase with a ten-foot pole. Because they're loyalists.


In case you didn't read the whole fluff, I also said that loyalist need more love and appeal. Like faction leaders for NPCs, Faction Colors unlocks, and specific faction camo unlocks for faction-based mechs. After all the concept of FW is supposed to be based on the RPG elements of the Clan Invasion. My only "complaint" with the Merc Life is the fact they are running the Faction Play show instead of the Loyalists. Now while it is true that there are concepts of salvage in lore, there are questions like "Why would a Clansmen hire a Mercenary?" that just doesn't make sense.

I also said that if you can alter half of the Clan Merc Corps logoes to sport the daggerstars in game, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

So if you can alter this,
Posted Image
Into this, then let me know:

Posted Image
So again my only wish is to make IS and Clan Loyalists an interesting and fun part of Faction Warfare, whether it be through the use of faction NPCs, Unlocking Faction Skins and Colors, and Decals. I just don't like the merc life because it does take away the feeling of being a Loyalist and feels more like a hand-holding experience. So yeah, I've chosen my side and I don't regret it, but I do want it to get better.

Edited by Will9761, 27 January 2017 - 11:32 PM.


#191 Lupis Volk

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:19 PM

Loyalist camo's, paints and decals would be nice. US long suffering stubborn mules do deserve a carrot. ;)

#192 Lances107

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 11:37 PM

So despite those two players claiming balance is fine, balance is not fine. First and foremost IS can drop two assaults and two lights. The clans can drop one assault, one heavy, one medium, and one light. Anyway you slice it two assaults in the first two drops or last two drops will have the advantage. My feedback make clan clan, and Inner sphere Inner sphere. Both having the exact same drop deck tonage wise. Here comes the clan is op.

Now I do not know which Lore this game is working off of, but the point of time, where this game is moving it really does not matter. The real black night, at least the one in MW4, was mech built from clan tech. It could be armed as heavily as the Timberwolf, and retain jump jets. Mainly because it used omni pods. Now the omni sections for this game are different then the ones in MW 4. So obviously it would not work the same way but if you built the mech right, it would solve that so called un balance. Another mech the IS has coming there way the dreaded Thanatos. You think the Night Gyr is tough this thing is really tough and can pack a serious weapon payload. Developed in response to the clans. Another anti clans mech, the Templar, the Hybrid Heavy/assault mech. Last but not least is the IS Fafnir. My point is make the clan mechs whole, make the drop deck tonage Identical. If there is mass unbalance, then instead of increasing nerfs clan side, give the IS mechs designed to fight the clans. There is several mechs on the IS side that fit that build. Along with the x pulse laser line, famed for use by the to come Gray Death Legion. To me this should be at the top of faction play right now. You want people to really delve into faction play then when there in a clan mech it needs to feel like a clan mech, not a nerfed into the ground clan mech. The same goes for IS mechs. There is a point of taking balance too far, where you utterly ruin immersion of a game.

On the point of map selection. Frankly get rid of the quick play maps. Make it invasions all round, why? Simple when stepping into a invasion map, you know your in for it, and you know its going to be a tough fight. This is the point of view of one player. Although I can make stuff up and say I talked to loads of people that agree with my point of view I will not.

On walls its an obstacle deal with it.

On the drop points. We do not have the level of communication via ts, or in game, to be doing this real time. This was suggested during the round table. If some units want this to happen, then let the leader of the groups set the drop point prior to launch of the map. Once set they can not be altered. Like I said its not practical. In a invasion the lead guys do not have time to be figuring out where to send this load of reinforcements, while trying to keep the group on target. In my mind it has to be done before the match.

On the point of the long tom, to be frank, it was fine. Frankly fun too. It also added the element of foot soldier to faction play. Meaning one portion of the unit did a ton of grunt work in scouting, prior to a unit invasion, there by setting up the invasion. To me nerfing or removing content from a game never works out. If thats all you do. Jam the rader instead? Yea thats mech warrior, why dont we just use real jam on the mechs like spaceballs the movies, there is no way anyone can complain about that right?

Special events I really like the idea but I think your going to spread the population too thin. So I would probably run an event at cst time zone, oceanic time zone, and europeon time zone on a specific day. During those spcific times all faction play is suspended. Expand the event to have one going for each faction. Have it being a rarity but with plenty of warning to the player base as to the when. Not sure if the scope of this suggestion is too extreme.

Now onto factions. Any special treatment or buff to the factions is a bad idea. To be blunt this player base is not mature enough for it. As the Long Tom issue has proven. All its going to cause is allot of bickering.

Also adding a new psr to events or the faction set up is not a good idea, in my opinion the current one is flawed in a major way. You win three then get the last match to wipe away your hard work, because your team did not know what they were doing. So lets stay way from more psr of any kind shall we?

You guys did allot of talking about stayed away from the drop deck issue, and stayed away from the non stop stream of nerfs to the clan mechs. Both of which is at the heart of problems in invasions right now. So to me that is not a good sign.

Lastly do not use redit, and do not use any fan sites for feed back. Here are some of the top killers for online games, fansites/redit, constant nerfing and removal of content, and lack of communication. One of the most successful mmorpgs wow, has lost most of its player base. Why? Because some group says something on a fansite or redit, and boom blizzard toes the line and does it. In the end ticking off the actual majority of players. This happened many times in wows history. So my point is if you want to find out something talk to the players in the trenches, you might actually get solid information. Fansites, and redit is always running there own personnel agendas. Or worse case trying to make themselves feel good because they rubbed elbows with a certain developer.

My agenda is let skill decide who wins and who loses. Lopsided drop tonage, and endless nerfs of one factions mechs, does not let skill decide who wins rather it makes sure one side wins most of the time. I really get the feeling that some IS pilots underestimate the mechs they have access to and the ones they will have access to.

I like stepping into the big leagues when I do unit faction play, thats why I want the invasion maps back. You want to make the factions unique, I really wouldn't do it by way of buffs or special mechs. Maybe a large discount on buying mechs, that are specifically tied to your faction. It eases the grind and does not effect the outcome of faction play.

Just the thoughts of one player.

#193 Hades Trooper

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 12:18 AM

View PostMcgral18, on 24 January 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

Could we get an official statement regarding the XL (and general) engine balance?

Because the Patch Notes spiel was pretty weak, being summed up as:

"Clam Battlemechs can feel free to have their superior XL engines, and completely ignore STDs, while Spheroid XLs must pay the death tax to use them"



Clam Battlemechs have exactly that choice, often with lighter and outright superior weaponry.
Clams have options with larger, and smaller engine at the 75 ton bracket, and both are top tier. Not all are, see Mr Gargles, but the Battlemechs have the same construction rules as Spheroid mechs, but get all the good tech.

The fact this message completely ignores the current necessity of buffing STD engines is appalling. They compete with Clan XLs at the moment, and it is a COMPLETELY laughable idea to ever consider one on a Clam battlemech.
The XL has no real consequence which is outweighed by the heat penalties, because you still avoid death.


And no, making cXLs die upon ST loss would just ruin the current lineup ranging from GodTier to rubbish. It would also decrease TTK a large amount, while most would agree a slight increase would be nice


Buffing the STDs to not be worthless in the form of +Structure and +Agility (because you sacrifice weight, you often sacrifice engine size, which is directly proportional to your mechs twist speed, and as a result damage mitigation via twisting)

Buff the isXLs in one of two ways:
  • sidesToDie=2, cXL method. Easy, simple, still inferior
  • Buff STs to equal CT, or greater HP wise, keeping ST death. This means they have a greater potential for damage, and have a higher skill floor and ceiling compared to Clan XLs, which would just have the ST penalties (and 60% damage reduction through destroyed components)
STD buffs are required either way, because they compete with cXLs
LFEs coming in won't fix the engine imbalance, they'll just shelve the STDs from ever being used again





TL:DR

What's up with the Patch Notes XL engine post? It completely misses the reality of the game, and ignores Clan Battlemechs.
This is relevant to Faction Warfare, because the XL imbalance (and faction imbalance) is a large part of population differences, as one is seen as more powerful/durable


Another example of a blind eyed IS pilot not understanding all the down sides for clans but picking on the only good thing after the hundreds of clan nerfs.

Good one PGI keeping nerfing clans and making me consider other games

#194 Marius Evander

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 12:22 AM

They will need to add the freelancer last second join in into the IS vs IS event for all other IS factions to fill out drops.

Wouldn't it be better to TURN OFF the Clan vs IS bucket and make EVERY faction have a mini event at the same time, and if your mini event doesnt have enough people you can help another mini event and it count towards some of your rewards ?

Edited by Cadoazreal, 28 January 2017 - 12:28 AM.


#195 Tiantara

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 12:37 AM

- One of the possible change in FP map rotation is placing that
Posted Image

1a-2a-3a-4a - invasion map phases.
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - phases as they are in game now:
1 - Game Mode: Skirmish
2 - Domination
3 - Conquest
4 - Assault

That can make FP a bit better...

#196 Rick Windwalker

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 01:08 AM

View PostTiantara, on 28 January 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

- One of the possible change in FP map rotation is placing that
Posted Image

1a-2a-3a-4a - invasion map phases.
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - phases as they are in game now:
1 - Game Mode: Skirmish
2 - Domination
3 - Conquest
4 - Assault

That can make FP a bit better...


Good idea. I´d like to add that passing 1a-4a should give directly a planet to the most active unit helping to win those parts. Off course it could be lost right away if the unit does not help to advance further or at least hold the ground and the whole faction gets pushed back again.
This way its not all decided in the last phase and planets might spread among more units.
Units not having time to play hardcore 5hrs+ to "maybe" get a planet in the last phase get the chance that their work isnt useless.

Rick out

Edited by Rick Windwalker, 28 January 2017 - 01:09 AM.


#197 Tarogato

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 01:11 AM

View PostHades Trooper, on 28 January 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Another example of a blind eyed IS pilot not understanding all the down sides for clans but picking on the only good thing after the hundreds of clan nerfs.

Good one PGI keeping nerfing clans and making me consider other games

And yet here we are, still seeing clan mechs being the majority of preferred picks in competitive matches.

I really don't care that much about the Clan vs IS loyalist banter. If you make one side decidedly overpowered, there will still be people playing on that side who think the other side needs nerfs. The grass is always greener.

But I still end up playing clan mechs 70% of the time, because they work better, and they're more enjoyable. To me, that indicates an imbalance, which is supported by the top picks in competitive play routinely favouring clans.



And again, I don't play CW regularly anymore (part of the reason that I've been so vocal in this thread, is because I wish it were better so that I could enjoy it), so you can't even pin me as a salty innersphere loyalist that thinks clamz OP. Plus, I have an 8.77 win/loss in CW from earlier this month playing with Dane's groups, so I'm not a salty loser, either. I just want an excuse to play my IS mechs more. Posted Image

#198 Lupis Volk

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 01:17 AM

View PostTarogato, on 28 January 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

. I just want an excuse to play my IS mechs more. Posted Image

Spend $20 for the Bush Whacker, slap on some splats and baby dakka with a flamer and reap the clammer salty tears in scouting. Posted Image

Edited by Lupis Volk, 28 January 2017 - 01:18 AM.


#199 Tarogato

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 01:22 AM

View PostLupis Volk, on 28 January 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

Spend $20 for the Bush Whacker, slap on some splats and baby dakka with a flamer and reap the clammer salty tears in scouting. Posted Image


Why? The Griffin and Shadowhawk are still better. Plus, I'm free-to-play, I'll wait for C-Bills. =P

#200 Lupis Volk

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 01:23 AM

View PostTarogato, on 28 January 2017 - 01:22 AM, said:

Why? The Griffin and Shadowhawk are still better. Plus, I'm free-to-play, I'll wait for C-Bills. =P

Why? Well it has better front profile *but marauder syndrome kicks in* and is rather tanky for a 55 tonner.

Also you get a cool war horn.





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