310 replies to this topic

[MacClearly]

Nik Reaper, on 29 January 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Why, because PGI always knows best?

Not to say we always do, unfortunately we have a better track record than they do...

PGI does do something that the community would not do and that is look after its own self interests.

The free to pay is a bad model but lets give PGI credit where it is do. You can be competitive in this game without spending money. I would never run a company that way. I would use every hook I could to try and be successful.

[Nik Reaper]

MacClearly, on 29 January 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

PGI does do something that the community would not do and that is look after its own self interests.

The free to pay is a bad model but lets give PGI credit where it is do. You can be competitive in this game without spending money. I would never run a company that way. I would use every hook I could to try and be successful.

I'll be honest with you, I really wished this game was B2P , buy to play, I buy a game and sure, they could sell colors and mechs for cash but never just for cash, because everyone bought in to get in, and all this p2w crap would not be needed and tolerated even less, but they say it just wouldn't/couldn't fly that way...

I think I get where you are coming from, a number of korean MMOs are literally non competitive unless you buy the competitive equips or consumables, and it seems to work, they make money and keep going, but they almost always have a PVE that is not competitive so it's an pay to participate option not the only option like here.
If this game, MWO, had enough paying customers to keep it alive and well that didn't mind paying for everything then I don't believe that it would have been F2P at all.

P.S. yes for now you can be mostly competitive with out paying, and if we never complain about things like this it might change.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 29 January 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[PurpleNinja]

A Kit Fox with MG buff?
P2W for sure.

[Nik Reaper]

PurpleNinja, on 29 January 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

A Kit Fox with MG buff?
P2W for sure.

The 4 high torso mounted energy hardpoints?

[Deathlike]

G4LV4TR0N, on 29 January 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

I agree that more hard points make builds more interesting but I don't agree that people win or lose games because of such.

Let's say that the KDK-3 was a hero mech... just for the sake of argument.

With how loud the people have been clamoring for nerfs for it, putting it under an actual paywall, would magnify the complaints even further.

So, don't even think for a moment that this would not ever be the case.

[Deathlike]

Just as an aside...

The reason why people are contentious about the loyalty Summoner omnipods... despite them being "eventually" free is because it was effectively locked under a paywall to obtain it early (and worse in the sense that you had to get it before a deadline - you can't really get them now outside of getting half of it with a hero mech).

Anyone with a brain and some understanding with a Summoner knows that the omnipods transform the mech into something far more usable. The problem is that unlike the regular waits for the releases (approximately like ~4-5 months from the mechs being dropped by the preorders) is that the regular variant releases for the loyalty mechs are essentially 11 to 12 months AFTER their original dropping date... which is more than the regular release schedule for mechs.

That's what gets people's goat.

Using the Javelin waits as the example wait times...
https://mwomercs.com...17#entry5576117

Release date: 5/16/17
C-bills release date: 9/5/17
Wait time: approximately 4 months

The loyalty variants will come much long after their debut (around Oct 2017, despite being released in Oct 2016 IIRC).

Edited by Deathlike, 29 January 2017 - 04:48 PM.

[MacClearly]

Nik Reaper, on 29 January 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

I'll be honest with you, I really wished this game was B2P , buy to play, I buy a game and sure, they could sell colors and mechs for cash but never just for cash, because everyone bought in to get in, and all this p2w crap would not be needed and tolerated even less, but they say it just wouldn't/couldn't fly that way...

I think I get where you are coming from, a number of korean MMOs are literally non competitive unless you buy the competitive equips or consumables, and it seems to work, they make money and keep going, but they almost always have a PVE that is not competitive so it's an pay to participate option not the only option like here.
If this game, MWO, had enough paying customers to keep it alive and well that didn't mind paying for everything then I don't believe that it would have been F2P at all.

P.S. yes for now you can be mostly competitive with out paying, and if we never complain about things like this it might change.

I agree. Even a monthly supscription seems like a better idea to me as I think monitizing paint and camo is dumb as there is no value in it. The fact that PGI is so small is likely why they went to this model. They seem to be selling enough mech packs however to dream about making a single player game which I appreciate that they want to grow but still feel that they haven't finished this game.

As well people are always going to complain. I can't say that I take people complaining about free stuff too seriously either. I can imagine it is hard for PGI too, to base a model on having free players but not being in a position to take care of their needs. Just too messy.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Nik Reaper, on 29 January 2017 - 03:30 PM, said:

You don't agree that Summoners having 2 extra torso energy makes it a superior build? , that the hellbringer laser boat with an energy right torso is better then the one with out it that needs armor on the arm that now holds the laser?

What you are saying is almost that the black widow warhammer is not a better ballistic boat than the 6R .. are you saying that?

I was talking about KFX-PR. Laser torsos are very nice but they don't turn Kit Fox into different mech like some people claim.

Quote

P.S.: You are probably speaking from your experience and I am speaking from mine, I will tell that mine is from for several years often playing with some of the best MWO players in the world , cough proton , for more impact of the claims that hardpoints don't win games please give the backround of your experience.
This may sound condescending, but if you want to be believed about a claim as serious as that there better be a serious, well thought out reason for it.

As I said, I have over 1500 games on various Kit Fox builds alone. And I feel like talking to people who have barely 100's.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 29 January 2017 - 06:28 PM.

[Deathlike]

G4LV4TR0N, on 29 January 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

I was talking about KFX-PR. Laser torsos are very nice but they don't turn Kit Fox into different mech like some people claim.

They do actually.

One of the biggest problems with the Cute Fox is that most of its weapons are in the arms. Prior to the introduction of the hero mech, you can fit like one semi-big ballistic in the torsos, but that's it. MGs aren't exactly optimal, and you're already forced to consume half a ton for the JJ (KFX-S side torsos and legs have JJs built in).

Torso mounted weapons are high up on the Kitfox, so it does actually change its value (just like the Summoner loyalty side torso omnipods for the energy hardpoint).

Quote

As I said, I have over 1500 games on various Kit Fox builds alone. And I feel like talking to people who have barely 100.

I've played a lot of Cute Fox in my time. They are mediocre at best. The torso mounts move it up a notch from where it previously was. I wouldn't dismiss the omnipod additions in this instance (they aren't OP, but are best in slot).

[Fox With A Shotgun]

FuzzyNZ, on 27 January 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you guys nerf'ed the Kit Fox C's Machine Gun ROF? But didn't nerf the Purifier's +20% Machine Gun ROF?

Purifier seems clearly a better mech, but only a select few can obtain it?

GG PGI!

I'm a KFX pilot, and I don't even use the KFX-PR's arm pods. They are, for a lack of better words, a steaming pile of excrement. You are in effect trading (4E + 2B) hardpoints for 2B with +20% MG RoF, split between two arms. Not even close to a fair trade, given how much firepower you can actually pack in the KFX-C LA. And let's not forget that a KFX lives or dies by torso twist. The moment that I see a KFX with MGs mounted on, I know that I can facepunch it and kill it even faster than usual, and thus no matter how many MG quirks you can stick on the KFX, a 8-SPL build will always decimate a 4-SPL 4-MG build with all its quirks.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Deathlike, on 29 January 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

They do actually.

One of the biggest problems with the Cute Fox is that most of its weapons are in the arms. Prior to the introduction of the hero mech, you can fit like one semi-big ballistic in the torsos, but that's it. MGs aren't exactly optimal, and you're already forced to consume half a ton for the JJ (KFX-S side torsos and legs have JJs built in).

Torso mounted weapons are high up on the Kitfox, so it does actually change its value (just like the Summoner loyalty side torso omnipods for the energy hardpoint).




I've played a lot of Cute Fox in my time. They are mediocre at best. The torso mounts move it up a notch from where it previously was. I wouldn't dismiss the omnipod additions in this instance (they aren't OP, but are best in slot).

I don't see any problem with Kit Fox weapons in arms. If there's anything that gives KFX-PR edge, it's the fact that it can mount more lasers than other versions, but this is still limited by low Kit Fox tonnage. In other words, beside few specific builds usually you have more space than you can fill. As for Purifier side torsos, unless filled with weapons, they are not best - but worst for that slot.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 29 January 2017 - 07:32 PM.

[Deathlike]

G4LV4TR0N, on 29 January 2017 - 07:30 PM, said:

I don't see any problem with Kit Fox weapons in arms. If there's anything that gives KFX-PR edge, it's the fact that it can mount more lasers than other versions, but this is still limited by low Kit Fox tonnage. In other words, beside few specific builds usually you have more space than you can fill. As for Purifier side torsos, unless filled with weapons, they are not best - but worst for that slot.

The arms are low, so you're effectively knuckle dragging.

High mounts are what makes good mechs stand out significantly more than others. Otherwise, hills and buildings are your enemies.

Giving high torso energy mounts to the Kitfox is pretty huge in the grand scheme of things.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 January 2017 - 07:48 PM.

[Mystere]

Nik Reaper, on 29 January 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Why, because PGI always knows best?

Not to say we always do, unfortunately we have a better track record than they do...

What track record is that exactly, producing games and selling in-game items?

[MacClearly]

NT Hackman, on 29 January 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

Hey guess what if the company needs to make money then maybe they shouldn't have gone with a scummy business model that people hate. You've failed as a business when the only way you can profit is off repeat customers willing to blow their life savings as opposed to making a small amount of money of a large group of people.

Life savings? A little extreme no?

[G4LV4TR0N]

Deathlike, on 29 January 2017 - 07:44 PM, said:

The arms are low, so you're effectively knuckle dragging.

High mounts are what makes good mechs stand out significantly more than others. Otherwise, hills and buildings are your enemies.

Giving high torso energy mounts to the Kitfox is pretty huge in the grand scheme of things.

I would say that this is related to map design, not KFX-PR. Polar Highlands is technically a map where this type of play is superior, also due to low temperature - but on Mining Collective or urban parts of River City you won't be ever able to perform that well. Neither on Terra Therma, but that's due to temperature (I assume if you run some high mounted energy weapons, you generate lot of heat). Now if they would introduce close encounter map with super high temperatures almost every aspect of KFX-PR would turn against it.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 30 January 2017 - 09:08 AM.

[Deathlike]

G4LV4TR0N, on 30 January 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

I would say that this is related to map design, not KFX-PR. Polar Highlands is technically a map where this type of play is superior, also due to low temperature - but on Mining Collective or urban parts of River City you won't be ever able to perform that well. Neither on Terra Therma, but that's due to temperature (I assume if you run some high mounted energy weapons, you generate lot of heat). Now if they would introduce close encounter map with super high temperatures almost every aspect of KFX-PR would turn against it.

Are you kidding me?

Methinks you don't know how to play the game.

[G4LV4TR0N]

And do you even own KFX-PR?

[Mystere]

NT Hackman, on 29 January 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

Hey guess what if the company needs to make money then maybe they shouldn't have gone with a scummy business model that people hate. You've failed as a business when the only way you can profit is off repeat customers willing to blow their life savings as opposed to making a small amount of money of a large group of people.

Well, at least PGI is not like one of those allegedly "Too Big To Fail" banks who actually did both of those and much much more.

[Deathlike]

G4LV4TR0N, on 30 January 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

And do you even own KFX-PR?

I don't have to own one to know how torso mounts work. I already have a Cutefox and have played it plenty before. It doesn't require much imagination on how it works these days.

[G4LV4TR0N]

So whole time you are commenting mech you don't own? I wouldn't take advice from you.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 30 January 2017 - 10:06 AM.