59 replies to this topic

[Farsling]

Second post ever.

I guess I wanted to contribute that I'm sympathetic to everyone's issues and concerns.

My primary mech is a SHC running an ERPPC, LRM10, ERML, and TAG. This enables me to play poptart, range, fire suppression, and most importantly, provide the potato LRM players on my team with a purpose. I love spotting for other players, leading the charge, calling targets.

Sometimes it means a win, sometimes not.

Edited by Farsling, 09 February 2017 - 12:14 AM.

[Burning2nd]

i TOOK the term potato has someone who is a lump.. Doesnt move much, and is not a skilled player

[krevLL]

So much PPFLD right now in solo. To the point that seeing a 4 ERPPC Kodiak isn't surprising anymore. Watching the "meta" (and by that I mean most common loadouts) is like watching a summer storm. It's LRMs, then it's Gauss on everything, followed by what I assume to be as many NARC's as a mech has missile hardpoints if the way people play is any indication. It makes the lurmer in me sad when I'm in a PPC/laserdeath build and we have a proficient NARC-Raven on the team. And yet. I've tried supporting UAC/Laser focus Maddog builds with 3 LRM5's, and to be honest, I feel like having LRMs instead of SRM4s is making those builds almost spud-like. In some ways lumping all 5 tiers together is harder than when it was primarily T1&T2 players. At least they had patterns and habits of efficiency.

I'm at the point where it's so chaotic and snipey that I'm gonna take this out and laugh as the world burns around me.

[Tesunie]

krevLL, on 16 February 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

And yet. I've tried supporting UAC/Laser focus Maddog builds with 3 LRM5's, and to be honest, I feel like having LRMs instead of SRM4s is making those builds almost spud-like.

I've had reasonable luck mixing LRMs with many different weapons. My current favorite is a Huntsman with an LRM10, LRM15 and 5 ERMLs. It works rather well, though close engagements can get a little... toasty. Then I've also been using a Mad Dog with 2 LRM15s (they may be 20s) and and 4 ERMLs, which run well as well.

Though LRM5s are the meta for continuous fire and "good" focused damage, sometimes massed LRM5s don't seem to get the job done as well as a larger launcher may. Of course, play style dependent.

As for Meta, yeah. It's typically changes a little, though recently I've been noticing the same you have, where one moment it's this, the next day it is that without any patches changing things. Might actually be a sign that balance is getting closer. (AKA: Instead of X being clearly better over Y, not it seems X and Y are reasonable choices.)

[ice trey]

krevLL, on 02 February 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

On a side note, I'm ignorant as to what a potato is. Someone enlighten me?

The term "potato" stems from an old image macro of "I can count to potato". I can't post it because people will complain about badwrongfun. Google it.

As far as LRMs? Hell, I've not played since 2016, I don't think. Every now and again, PGI quirks LRMs, but they always go overboard. The community reacts by immediately spamming the crap out of it. Tier 1 ignore it because they know how to avoid LRMs in most situations. Mid and low tiers spam it until players who get Narc'd cry crocodile tears to the devs via twitter. The devs immediately go overboard with nerfs, and then they fade into obscurity again.

Delicate, incremental changes just don't happen.

[Horseman]

ice trey, on 17 February 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

The term "potato" stems from an old image macro of "I can count to potato". I can't post it because people will complain about badwrongfun. Google it.

Huh. I always thought it stemmed from "couch potato".

[Neput Z34]

If LRMs persist for more then a few matches I recommend the following:

Nova-S with 7 C-SPL and Triple AMS, to get in close and punch their teeth in give them a hug.

If that is not sufficient upgrade to an ECM equipped mech with AMS, just to be sure.

[ZeuZ_LoD]

i don't know why LRMS are even in the game tbh. You don't have to aim, you dont even have to have LOS to the target. I despise any playstyle that promotes no aim, no prediction and more importantly to move around. Or perhaps just make a mode to where people can play only LRMS so they can spawn and just sit there waiting for target?

[Mechwarrior4670152]

That was... one of the more interesting posts I have read.
And probably not for the reasons you were hoping Zeus.

LRM are here because they are one of the core weapons of the series.

And...

Do not have to aim?

Stopped reading at that point.
You may not have to aim the same way you do a PPC, but to say that you simply do not have to aim?

Obvious troll is obvious.

[ZeuZ_LoD]

Wence the Wanderer, on 20 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

That was... one of the more interesting posts I have read.
And probably not for the reasons you were hoping Zeus.

LRM are here because they are one of the core weapons of the series.

And...

Do not have to aim?

Stopped reading at that point.
You may not have to aim the same way you do a PPC, but to say that you simply do not have to aim?

Obvious troll is obvious.

Crosshair goes red, you click, missile away, zero prediction needed. Straight up auto lock. I watched my 4 year old niece kill people with those, so yea sorry but for me they are simply to easy and mindless. I guess sitting behind mountains spamming lrms is "tactical"?

[Tesunie]

ZeuzLoD, on 21 February 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

Crosshair goes red, you click, missile away, zero prediction needed. Straight up auto lock. I watched my 4 year old niece kill people with those, so yea sorry but for me they are simply to easy and mindless. I guess sitting behind mountains spamming lrms is "tactical"?

You have positioning to consider, angle of missile flight, distance/time till missile hit target (can they get back into cover?), etc.

To just toss missiles out there without a care at every lock available? No. You are right that it doesn't take much skill (thought maybe some luck).

To use your LRMs effectively, making every missile count and to force them to either have an effect (scare a target off) or deal some form of damage (getting an accuracy rating above 50%)? Yes. It does take skill to use.

So, depends upon what affects you are expecting. And don't be surprised what some kids can do...

[ZeuZ_LoD]

Oh I know. It's just a different point of view on how simple and easy it is (my point exactly that a child can do it). Now watching some dude on a spider or any fast moving mech and pin pointing ppc shots on the move at max speed is a joy to watch. Then on the flip side watching a dude spam lrms over a mountian to a target just sitting there makes me want to gouge my self in the eye with a spoon.

[Tesunie]

ZeuzLoD, on 21 February 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Then on the flip side watching a dude spam lrms over a mountian to a target just sitting there makes me want to gouge my self in the eye with a spoon.

I would state that LRM user is probably not using those LRMs in the most effective manner possible. Though I can't say it isn't a strategy and can work well, but I find LRMs work best when up front with your teammates. Maybe a little behind them, but there by no means should be a whole mountain between you and your team.

My opinion. Of course.

[Horseman]

ZeuzLoD, on 20 February 2017 - 06:01 PM, said:

You don't have to aim, you dont even have to have LOS to the target.

You or a teammate have to have LOS. Otherwise the target lock breaks and the missiles become ridiculously easy to dodge.

Quote

Crosshair goes red, you click, missile away, zero prediction needed. Straight up auto lock.

... and then you have to maintain the target lock while the missiles fly to the target. Only overconfident clowns don't take evasive maneuvers at that point.

Quote

I guess sitting behind mountains spamming lrms is "tactical"?

No, and any player who plays like that has no clue about what he's doing. Indirect fire is an option, and sometimes useful (killing off retreating enemy mechs, for one), but Artemis and TAG considerably improve their effectiveness within LOS.

[BigScwerl]

The entire point of a homing missile system is that you DO NOT have to aim, you just point. Anyone that says it takes as much skill to lead a target at 600 meters with a ppc, or focus an ER Laser burst onto a component as it does to wait until you see a color turn red and press a button is a liar. Sorry LRM lovers. I accept that they are part of the game and we learn to play with them, but unless you are in the top 10% of LRM users (as far as I can tell), you are a less skilled pilot than the guy doing 500 pts of damage with direct fire weapons.

[Tesunie]

Just yesterday in Group Queue, I had a Catapult with a bad side torso I locked for a moment. I found them again via assisted target lock (someone placed a UAV over the enemy) and I managed to take them out by side torso/XL engine destruction indirectly. However, it was a team effort, and I had to reposition myself so my LRMs would hit the Catapult... and not a bunch of building tops/sides.

I'd say taking down an enemy mech with minimal damage to my team or myself was a good action, and took skill to manage to get the shot. Sure, I could have stood there and kept lobbing my LRMs indirectly without a care, but I never would have killed the Catapult above if I had done so. The difference between skill and lack of skillful use of LRMs.

(I'll also mention, I had plenty of back up weapons, so I was right out in front with my team the whole match. Right where I believe LRMs belong.)

BigScwerl, on 22 February 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

The entire point of a homing missile system is that you DO NOT have to aim, you just point. Anyone that says it takes as much skill to lead a target at 600 meters with a ppc, or focus an ER Laser burst onto a component as it does to wait until you see a color turn red and press a button is a liar. Sorry LRM lovers. I accept that they are part of the game and we learn to play with them, but unless you are in the top 10% of LRM users (as far as I can tell), you are a less skilled pilot than the guy doing 500 pts of damage with direct fire weapons.

LRMs are a funky weapon. They can require immense skill to use well sometimes, and other times it's "like shooting fish in a barrel" easy... Depending upon the team and how they are being used. Sometimes, you need to work on angle and distance to get the right flight paths so your LRMs will hit, or know enough to send a volley you know will miss just to scare someone. Other times, it's easy lock and shoot open terrain (which can be a lack of skill on the opponent's side actually, not using cover effectively).

I don't exactly like the implication that "you are a less skilled pilot if you use LRM" ... "unless I say you are"... I use LRMs. You probably have never heard my name before. Does that mean you consider me a lesser skilled pilot? And then, I could tell you how I can do 500-600 damage with LRMs.... or a direct fire build... ?

The use of LRMs does not have an indicator on skill level. How they are being used, the intent behind taking them, the build that they are on, how effectively they are being used... These are more indicators of skill.

As an add on, I'll mention it tossed out there that "direct fire point and click is easy mode, and requires no skill" has been tossed out before, with the accusation being that lining up a direct fire weapon and squeezing the trigger isn't a skill. (I'm just saying I've heard the argument, not that I agree with it.) So, the skill-less argument has been tossed into both camps...

[Horseman]

BigScwerl, on 22 February 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

The entire point of a homing missile system is that you DO NOT have to aim, you just point.Anyone that says it takes as much skill to lead a target at 600 meters with a ppc, or focus an ER Laser burst onto a component as it does to wait until you see a color turn red and press a button is a liar.

Here's my question then... how long has it been since you've played a LRM chassis at all? Because right now you're describing LRM behavior as something completely different than it actually is (you know you have to maintain the target lock until the missiles hit, right?).

There's a saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes... if you insist using LRMs is so easy, build this (modules: Radar Derp, LRM-15 Cooldown, Advanced Target Decay), play it for a couple dozen matches and share your experience with us.

Quote

but unless you are in the top 10% of LRM users (as far as I can tell), you are a less skilled pilot than the guy doing 500 pts of damage with direct fire weapons.

Unless you are in the top 10% of direct fire weapon users, you are a less skilled pilot than that guy either (and let's be fair, I've seen people trying to pew pew through hills and buildings).
Being a deadweight with any weapon is easy. Being an asset to your team takes effort no matter what you are armed with.

[Roughneck45]

Horseman, on 23 February 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

Because right now you're describing LRM behavior as something completely different than it actually is

No?

You have to keep your aim within the target box, yes, but that is much different and much easier than putting damage on a mech with a direct fire weapon. You have about a two second window to remove your aim and bring it back without losing lock.

I have no problems with people who want to lurm, just make sure your missiles are landing and you share armor with the team. Be an asset to the team, not the assault mech who stays out of the fight to use all his LRM ammo before he engages...

Edited by Roughneck45, 23 February 2017 - 09:14 AM.

[jper4]

ZeuzLoD, on 21 February 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

Crosshair goes red, you click, missile away, zero prediction needed. Straight up auto lock. I watched my 4 year old niece kill people with those, so yea sorry but for me they are simply to easy and mindless. I guess sitting behind mountains spamming lrms is "tactical"?

4 year olds have been proven to be OP in this game mind you. <nods wisely>

[BigScwerl]

As I have said repeatedly on this thread. I also have some builds that use LRM's and the last time I used an LRM build was a couple days ago. I would not ever use an Awesome as a LRM carrier because I would be hiding my 80 tons of Armor in the back the whole match. This is what I've probably done to you in your Awesome lurmbroat.

This just goes back to the Boating conundrum.... and if you are actually using that build, It explains why clans keep rolling the IS even after our monstrous Nerfs.

Just answer this question and you'll prove my point:

What weapon makes it easier to kill a fast moving target?

A. Laser
B. Streak SRM

yeah, I thought so.

Horseman, on 23 February 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

There's a saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes... if you insist using LRMs is so easy, build this (modules: Radar Derp, LRM-15 Cooldown, Advanced Target Decay), play it for a couple dozen matches and share your experience with us.